Boston Marathon bombing...

[llamabreath]

Forgot to mention what's the difference between the Boston bombing and the bombing of MOVE headquarters in Philadelphia? Don't know about it google it

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

What's the difference?
What's the similarity???

Transcript Philadelphia Police Drop Bomb on MOVEHeadquarters

CHUCK SCARBOROUGH, anchor:

The night skies over West Philadelphia are bright with flames at this hour. As many as forty buildings may be on fire as police and firefighters surround an area which has been the scene of a daylong siege. Police moved in this morning to serve an eviction notice on a radical groupknown as MOVE, whose headquarters are in the middle of a series of row houses in Philadelphia. There was gunfire and water canon and teargas throughout the day. It failed to get those holed up inside out onto the streets. By late afternoon, police ordered a helicopter to drop a percussion bomb on the house. Whatever police thought it would do, it touchedoff a fire, which quickly spread to nearby buildings and out of control and its still out of control tonight.

Good evening, I?m Chuck Scarborough, NBC News in New York and the drama obviously continues in West Philadelphia, the siege of that headquarters of the radical group known as MOVE. It began some eighteen hours ago now when police surrounded that row house of West Philadelphia. Although the stage was set for trouble much earlier when the neighborhood was evacuated Sunday night. The authorities had obtained arrest warrantsfor MOVE members inside the house. MOVE preaches sort of an anti-technology, back to nature philosophy that?s a little bit odd. The neighborhood has been upset with the group for some time. Warrants were out accusing them of harassing residents, possessing explosives, of disorderly conduct....

This is the best comparison you could make? Seriously?

 

[geekymcfly]

What's the difference?
What's the similarity???


This is the best comparison you could make? Seriously?

The police dropped a bomb on a house where women and children died. Burned down 65 additional houses that left many homeless and you don't see anything wrong with that. Hey it qas great speaking with you but I'm done.

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[llamabreath]

And there were also streetlights and curbs there too.

 

[Live2ride883]

Of course the victims of this attack are in our prayers, but what I found to be very disturbing was the actions of the Boston Police Department and the FBI. While I know this opinion probably won't make me any friends but to basically put the city under lock down (martial law) and force people from their homes at gun point and search them without warrants or just cause was both unconstitutional and illegal.

 

[llamabreath]

Of course the victims of this attack are in our prayers, but what I found to be very disturbing was the actions of the Boston Police Department and the FBI. While I know this opinion probably won't make me any friends but to basically put the city under lock down (martial law) and force people from their homes at gun point and search them without warrants or just cause was both unconstitutional and illegal.

The public was in imminent danger. If my family lived in Boston, I certainly would've been comfortable seeing action like that taken for their protection. The officers taking part in it were the good guys, not the bad guys.

I would be sitting on pins and needles otherwise, worrying if my family (if I had any there) would be the next victims to be blown up; not worrying about the Constitution during those nerve racking hours.

 

[Live2ride883]

The public was in imminent danger. If my family lived in Boston, I certainly would've been comfortable seeing action like that taken for their protection. The officers taking part in it were the good guys, not the bad guys.

I would be sitting on pins and needles otherwise, worrying if my family (if I had any there) would be the next victims to be blown up; not worrying about the Constitution during those nerve racking hours.

I wanted him caught alive before he could hurt anyone else as well, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things and in this case it was the wrong way. The 4th amendment protects us the citizens from unreasonable searches and seizure. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, papers, houses and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized."


They cannot play whack a mole going from one house to another hoping to get lucky. Now llamasbreath I have a question for you, if under this circumstance it was OK to shred our 4th amendment at what point do you say enough is enough ?

Our founding fathers wrote the Constitution to LIMIT the power of government over us other citizens. Since the Constitution was written there have been struggles for equal rights, such as getting women the right to own property and vote, the civil rights movement which brought us such great men like MLK Jr. We have fought hard and some have died for those rights, and to be blunt to surrender any of them so willingly disgusts me.

 

[Aquila]

NothingIsTrue said that in the antifungal..... anti-gun thread.


Damn autocorrect.

smh

I still stand by that statement. Partisan arguing over fear-mongering talking points gets us nowhere. I think we all agree that abuses of power, terrorist attacks, murder, rape, robbery, etc. are all wrong, but the perception of murky grey areas comes about when we focus in on arguing and shouting down "the other side", as if it were two countries vying for dominance in one tiny land, rather than a United society. There is a higher cause to be served and the status quo is not serving We the People.. yet, being bogged down in the muck and mire of the nonsense sub-issues to the detriment of our critical thinking and creative abilities being able to be applied to the most critical opportunities is not the fault of the manipulators... they only dangle the carrot; the People are the ones that chase after it.

 

[Aquila]

I wanted him caught alive before he could hurt anyone else as well, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things and in this case it was the wrong way. The 4th amendment protects us the citizens from unreasonable searches and seizure. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, papers, houses and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized."


They cannot play whack a mole going from one house to another hoping to get lucky. Now llamasbreath I have a question for you, if under this circumstance it was OK to shred our 4th amendment at what point do you say enough is enough ?

Our founding fathers wrote the Constitution to LIMIT the power of government over us other citizens. Since the Constitution was written there have been struggles for equal rights, such as getting women the right to own property and vote, the civil rights movement which brought us such great men like MLK Jr. We have fought hard and some have died for those rights, and to be blunt to surrender any of them so willingly disgusts me.

There was a brief discussion of this in the Martial Law thread as well. Page 4 has my opinions on the searching; so far no new information to change them.

http://forums.androidcentral.com/politics/259437-martial-law-4.html

 

[llamabreath]

I still stand by that statement. Partisan arguing over fear-mongering talking points gets us nowhere. I think we all agree that abuses of power, terrorist attacks, murder, rape, robbery, etc. are all wrong, but the perception of murky grey areas comes about when we focus in on arguing and shouting down "the other side", as if it were two countries vying for dominance in one tiny land, rather than a United society. There is a higher cause to be served and the status quo is not serving We the People.. yet, being bogged down in the muck and mire of the nonsense sub-issues to the detriment of our critical thinking and creative abilities being able to be applied to the most critical opportunities is not the fault of the manipulators... they only dangle the carrot; the People are the ones that chase after it.

I must say,
well said.

 

[llamabreath]

I wanted him caught alive before he could hurt anyone else as well, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things and in this case it was the wrong way. The 4th amendment protects us the citizens from unreasonable searches and seizure. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, papers, houses and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized."


They cannot play whack a mole going from one house to another hoping to get lucky. Now llamasbreath I have a question for you, if under this circumstance it was OK to shred our 4th amendment at what point do you say enough is enough ?

Our founding fathers wrote the Constitution to LIMIT the power of government over us other citizens. Since the Constitution was written there have been struggles for equal rights, such as getting women the right to own property and vote, the civil rights movement which brought us such great men like MLK Jr. We have fought hard and some have died for those rights, and to be blunt to surrender any of them so willingly disgusts me.

I'd rather them play whack-a-mole TENfold, than see innocent lives and families more than literally torn apart.
Did you think there was time to get warrants to search hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of homes, businesses and other property?
Every second seemed like an hour to those people. At the risk of sounding overly simplistic, the GOOD guys were doing this for our own safety.

And it's not llamasbreath, it's llamabreath.

 

[llamabreath]

By the way, take notice that they called it off BEFORE they found Pez dispenser terrorist.

 

[Live2ride883]

I'd rather them play whack-a-mole TENfold, than see innocent lives and families more than literally torn apart.
Did you think there was time to get warrants to search hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of homes, businesses and other property?
Every second seemed like an hour to those people. At the risk of sounding overly simplistic, the GOOD guys were doing this for our own safety.

And it's not llamasbreath, it's llamabreath.

Time or not that's precisely what they should have done, if they had came to my house without a warrant I would have refused to submit to that search. It is likely at this point I would have been forced from my home at gunpoint, and they would have carried out their search anyway. And then I would be taking them to court for violating my rights as a law abiding citizen.

As for them doing this for our own safety, is that the line you're willing to accept the violation of your rights for?

I happen to think that the rights guaranteed to us by the Constitution are worth standing up for and defending at every junction. Because once you surrender one of them, for what ever reason how long until they ask for another, another, another and another until all you have left are the rights that they tell you that you can have and those are not rights that's being given permission.

GOOD guys become criminals when they break the law...

Sorry about the typo, I blame auto correct.

 

[llamabreath]

Ok, what if they didn't go house to house when they thought they had him isolated and he killed more people? Don't you think that everyone playing Monday morning quarterback will surely complain that we should've been a helluva lot more proactive that day?

 

[Aquila]

Ok, what if they didn't go house to house when they thought they had him isolated and he killed more people? Don't you think that everyone playing Monday morning quarterback will surely complain that we should've been a helluva lot more proactive that day?

I haven't been following this story too closely since it ended, but wasn't the manhunt unsuccessful prior to a civilian calling it in that he was on their property? Having the media and public officials ask people to keep their eyes open, keep their families safe and to report criminal activity seems to be more productive and more protective of the public's rights.

What reason was there to assume he was in anyone's home? To be sure, we do want law enforcement to search for criminals, to the best of their ability, and within the law. When they go rogue and just start making up rules "for the public's safety" we need to take notice.

 

[Aquila]

Did you think there was time to get warrants to search hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of homes, businesses and other property?

This is exactly the problem. If they don't know specifically which home he is in, then they do not have any grounds to search. The warrant would have to specify which property and why they think he's there. There is a possibility for an exception to the warrant with specific probable cause... but again, they have to justify why that specific home, not just say, "this home is within 100 square miles of where a suspect was last seen".

 

[Live2ride883]

Ok, what if they didn't go house to house when they thought they had him isolated and he killed more people? Don't you think that everyone playing Monday morning quarterback will surely complain that we should've been a helluva lot more proactive that day?

Obviously going house to house did not find him, and he did not kill anyone else. Personally I am more secure in the knowledge that government agents cannot search my home without a warrant so as a law abiding citizen the police department has no legal right to enter my home. Although I do have several friends on the police department where I live, and have on occasion "loaned" a few officers some of my personal firearms for an evaluation towards a possible department purchase.

 

[Live2ride883]

Probable cause:
Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime, thereby warranting his or her prosecution, or that a Cause of Action has accrued, justifying a civil lawsuit.

Probable cause is a level of reasonable belief, based on facts that can be articulated, that is required to sue a person in civil court or to arrest and prosecute a person in criminal court. Before a person can be sued or arrested and prosecuted, the civil plaintiff or police and prosecutor must possess enough facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the claim or charge is true.

probable cause legal definition of probable cause. probable cause synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[Live2ride883]

Just wanted to share these..

 

[llamabreath]

I saw the second plane hit without a TV.
The battlefield is here.

Try telling those families in Boston the battlefield isn't here either.


And great quote by Ben Franklin, a person anybody could look up to; but could he have foretold the times we find ourselves in now?

 

[gollum18]

The time is coming when the constitution will hang by a thread and it is up to we the people, to decide whether or not to continue following the guidance set forth by our forebears.

A government that is made by the people, for the people, and of the people is a government that must listen wholeheartedly to what it's citizens say.

The reaction that the Boston police showed after the bombings was a blatant violation of the fourth amendment. I realize that the city was in a state of panic, but that is not just cause to go trampling all over our rights as citizens of this country.

Every man, woman, and child is guaranteed these rights as delegated to them by the constitution. And it is not within the government's right to revoke them at their leisure. They were not intended to be rights granted to us by the government as that would imply that they could be taken away from us by those who represent us. No they were intended to serve as a guideline to establish the basic liberties that every citizen of this nation is entitled to.

Thus is not how our country should be representing itself on the world stage. For it is this nation that serves as the example for democracies around the world. And it is this nation that sets the standard for them to follow.

Thank you.

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