Camera should be 16mp

[yomny Martinez]

My honest opinion, talking about numbers doesn't mean squat. How about you wait till you get one or actual reviews are out and then decide if the phone is worth it or not. your logic is not sound at all.
"High budget smartphone should have a 16mp" How about if it did and shot like total junk? Will you be happy then? Exactly so i think you want the camera to shoot excellent pictures which apparently, it does. We're back to square one.

 

[PowrDroid]

I've never seen so much defensiveness, even hostility, to the concept of wanting more on a smartphone than was offered.

 

[PowrDroid]

To get the 1.55 micron pixel, no doubt. They could do f1.8 but with smaller pixel

Which is the approach that Moto took with the Droid Z Force. It has 1.12 micron pixels with f1.8 and 21MP sensor. It scored an 87 overall on DXOMark tests; Pixel got 89 overall. On noise, which usually shows up in low light conditions, the Force Z got 88; The Pixel XL got a noise score of 89.

I'd love to see the images from these two cameras side-by-side. If there is no noticeable difference I'd rather have the 21MP shooter.

 

[yomny Martinez]

Yeah forums are a hostile place, especially when people come in saying stuff like this. "I want a better camera", better than what, you haven't even tried it. " I want a physicanl button, a capacitive, a less humpy camera, no edge" in the case of the Note 7. Its everyone's nature to be hostile or flame others when such ridiculous demand are presented. It is also human nature to be unhappy with everything we're given, at least to some.

If you dont like something dont buy it, why come here trying to create a mob on nonsense, hows that going to change anything. If you just want to vent, by all means.

Then again, note to self, you're all more than welcome to come here and say what you want, it is me and any else bothered by it that doesn't need to reply.

I just realized i documented a whole conversation with my self. Sorry people, this hurricane situation has got us Floridians sitting at home doing nothing lol.

 

[Ry]

High budget smartphone so the device should have min 16mp of rear pixel. Even a low budget smartphones are coming in 16mp

There's more to a camera than megapixels

 

[raqball]

There's more to a camera than megapixels

Yuppers..

Just ask Sony Xperia Z5 owners... It had a 23MP camera and..................... Well some will know the answer!

 

[yomny Martinez]

There's more to a camera than megapixels

Exactly, from what i understand the megapixels really just determine the size you could print with good quality. Other than that is hard to tell when just looking at a picture in your phone.

Now sensor size, pixel size, min aperture, that makes for a better camera.

 

[Delnic]

Seems pretty good with 12mp to me...

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

There's more to a camera than megapixels

Yes, but on the flip side, megapixels do matter.

 

[James E1]

Yes, but on the flip side, megapixels do matter.

In what way?

 

[dcviper]

My Canon Rebel XSi only has 12 and it's awesome. I think your Nikon just sucks.

(Because when you buy into either Nikon or Canon, you have to defend your choice in order to not feel bad about spending multiple k$ on glass)

 

[dcviper]

It all matters, and if you are stuffing the camera bits into an enormous Canon 1D Mk III body, then you can have high res AND large pixels. But when you stuff it into a tiny phone chassis, you gotta make trade offs. Bigger pixels means more light striking the detector, which means better low light performance. Fewer pixels also reduces the load on the memory and processor because there is less to store and less to do software magic on. This also means you can shoot faster.

 

[LeoRex]

OK.... just for the sake of full disclosure... here are two pics to illustrate cropping on the 6P and its 12MP sensor. Nice, daytime shot, HDR+

Now, I am going to go with the most extreme example... a '100' crop. Now, if you were going to print anything, you wouldn't use a 100 crop. Now, on any phone, a 100 crop is going to show degradation due to the resolution (some much worse than others). But even with that, the amount of detail that is still getting preserved here is still quite high. You can make out the grass, leaves in the trees, even fine detail in the small trees in the background. You might be butting into resolution limits here, but each pixel counts and there isn't much plasticy processing artifacts, etc.


Now, just so people can sort of absorb just how severely cropped this picture is, here is a screenshot of what I cropped from the full resolution image



Now, 12MP or not, there's more than enough wiggle room in there to fuss around with the framing and crop and play around, to the point where if you wanted to blow up the picture that much, you are better serviced with a DLSR. So where it lacks in raw pixel count, it makes up for it in that pixel level quality is extremely high and there are minimal processing artifacts. Now would a 21MP camera with the same optical characteristics take a better picture? Most likely.... then again, the camera module would also be substantially larger as a result and it'd have a rather beastly camera bump, or even a massive hockey puck like we see on some of the gargantuan Lumias.

Ok, got long winded there....

 

[sstephen17]

My ranking of smartphone camera features in order:

1. Speed - In this day and age, a smartphone camera should take pictures lightning fast with no lag.
2. Low light - I want good to great looking pictures in low light. Obviously it won't be as good as well lit scene but it shouldn't look grainy either.
3. HDR - Generally makes pictures look noticeably better vs non-HDR.

I would guess that 99% of people who use smartphone cameras do so to share pictures with friends via social media or messaging. There's no need to go overboard with a higher mega pixel count.

 

[PowrDroid]

OK.... just for the sake of full disclosure... here are two pics to illustrate cropping on the 6P and its 12MP sensor. Nice, daytime shot, HDR+

Now, I am going to go with the most extreme example... a '100' crop. Now, if you were going to print anything, you wouldn't use a 100 crop. Now, on any phone, a 100 crop is going to show degradation due to the resolution (some much worse than others). But even with that, the amount of detail that is still getting preserved here is still quite high. You can make out the grass, leaves in the trees, even fine detail in the small trees in the background. You might be butting into resolution limits here, but each pixel counts and there isn't much plasticy processing artifacts, etc.

Now, 12MP or not, there's more than enough wiggle room in there to fuss around with the framing and crop and play around, to the point where if you wanted to blow up the picture that much, you are better serviced with a DLSR. So where it lacks in raw pixel count, it makes up for it in that pixel level quality is extremely high and there are minimal processing artifacts. Now would a 21MP camera with the same optical characteristics take a better picture? Most likely.... then again, the camera module would also be substantially larger as a result and it'd have a rather beastly camera bump, or even a massive hockey puck like we see on some of the gargantuan Lumias.

This is what I'm talking about!

OK, here's an example using my Droid Turbo, with 21MP. (I have compressed the pictures so they would load onto Android Central.)

Here is the picture showing the amount of area that is being cropped (this is the photo with pixels being reduced to 12.5% in order to fit on the screen)




And here is the cropped portion of the picture (this is the photo with pixels at actual size.)



You can see the difference in the amount of zooming that can be achieved using 21MP. There simply is a lot more real estate to be working with. True, if you are going to blow up and print something this close up, you're better off with a DSLR. But, I need to take quick and dirty photos of batches of cartons showing the integrity of the barcodes on shipping labels. My phone is perfect for this use. I don't think I'd be able to do this with 12MP. Yes, I realize most people don't need this ability, but once you've lived with 21MP it's hard to go down to 12MP.

 

[LeoRex]

I would guess that 99% of people who use smartphone cameras do so to share pictures with friends via social media or messaging. There's no need to go overboard with a higher mega pixel count.

My wife uses her phone to take product pictures (she sells stuff on Etsy) and to catalog our family and make Shutterfly albums out of the pics. The both of us tend to have phones that have some of the best cameras available and the quality of pictures she gets is more than enough to result in good pics on those albums.

Now, if she was into needing to crop/modify/print 8x10 portraits with spectacular bokah and lighting effects ... do all sorts of advanced stuff, she most certainly wouldn't be doing that on a phone... that's was DSLRs are for. Almost across the board, the top phones now give picture quality that is more than sufficient to satisfy what people require of them. A huge chunk of those people could get everything out of many mid-rangers now.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

In what way?

Detail

 

[PalakMi]

Samsung proved with the s7 that there's no need to worry about PIXEL count, hihi

 

[PowrDroid]

Samsung proved with the s7 that there's no need to worry about PIXEL count, hihi

Uh-huh, sure. Let's see the S7 give details like in my shot of the barcode label.

 

[LeoRex]

But, I need to take quick and dirty photos of batches of cartons showing the integrity of the barcodes on shipping labels. My phone is perfect for this use. I don't think I'd be able to do this with 12MP. Yes, I realize most people don't need this ability, but once you've lived with 21MP it's hard to go down to 12MP.

Oh, I get you. And in that use case, I'll give you that resolution is king. But I've seen plenty of shots from that very same phone where it starts to fall on its face once the light levels start to drop. Once that starts to happen, those tiny pixels that allow you to get that finely detailed image in bright light start to cause problems... small optics need more light... either longer exposure times, higher ISO settings or a (usually) a combination of the two. And that, combined with those same small pixels means noise, lots of noise. And noise can turn what would have been a good picture into a dumpster fire.

This feb, I went to Disney... my wife had her G4 and I my 6P. Her G4 shared the same 1.12 micron pixels that you have in your DT... probably even the same exact pixel tech based on the two sensor's ages. And the G4's aperture was even wider than your DT at f/1.8.

In bright light, mostly interchangeable really, both did the job. But inside attractions, at dusk or at night? It was no contest. Here are two example shots that were close to the same time, the 6P's was actually a bit later. These are both lightly cropped. Sure, the G4 is brighter, but that's about all you can say about it since it sacrificed everything to get it that way. Its overexposed, processed within an inch of its life. You mean, Minnie's dress is red??? Little details... like the staining on the scuppers, shadows behind the characters, gone.

Which one do you think made it into our Disney 2016 album?

6P



G4



Now this was pretty much repeated over and over... any time that light was at a premium, the phone with the larger optics, regardless of how many pixels were stuffed in there, did the better job.

These OEMs aren't picking a sensor for a single application.. they are picking a series of parameters to try to find the best option that fits in the little space they are given. And the options that Google has taken mean that when light levels start to drop, their cameras will be much better than yours than yours will be better than theirs when its the opposite (which, unless you start cropping like crazy, isn't applicable since the 6P takes as good if not better pictures in good lighting pictures too).

You'll search far and wide for a photographer who will gladly give up optical performance for the sake of resolution.