Chromebook Discussion

[JeffDenver]

What do you think it needs improvements in to be used for productivity?

Photoshop is a really good example. It is something a lot of people use and would miss IMO.

There is also things like audio editing software, app development, ect...that require specialized software that the Chrome OS is unlikely to get in the near future. Chromw OS simply does not have the versatility of a "real" OS. At least not yet.

 

[thatotherdude24]

I've been really intrigued by the Asus Chromebox. I have a Mac Mini, so I don't really need the chromebox but it looks like just the thing to get a basic and cheap Linux desktop. I'm a big fan of these small form-factor PCs. Unless you need the hardware that comes in a big tower, high end parts and the cooling necessary to keep them working right, micro PCs offer plenty of horsepower without taking up any space at all. However, I'm really shocked by the response the Chromebox has received. I figured it would make something of a splash, especially for the Linux stuff, but not be that big otherwise.

I'm really hoping my HP 14 lasts longer than the year I got out of my Samsung 3 but if prices remain low and feature sets continue to improve, I could see myself buying another model next year. I'm very interested in Lenovo's supposed Yoga tablet and HP could definitely attract me with a detachable hybrid, particularly if we get Ubuntu Touch running on the devices.

If all you need is a web browser these things are perfect. At the college I went to the had computers in the lobby that all you were able to use was the internet, why not put in a Chromebox? Much cheaper.

Photoshop is a really good example. It is something a lot of people use and would miss IMO.

There is also things like audio editing software, app development, ect...that require specialized software that the Chrome OS is unlikely to get in the near future. Chromw OS simply does not have the versatility of a "real" OS. At least not yet.

I understand, a Chromebook is not a suitable replacement for everybody. There are extensions to edit photos but I don't think they offer the power Photoshop does. There will always be a need for workstations because as of now Chromebooks have no expandability options.

 

[JeffDenver]

I understand, a Chromebook is not a suitable replacement for everybody.

It's utility seems pretty narrow to me at the moment. Windows is a proven system and far more versatile. It is possible Chrome OS will mature eventually as well (Android did) but it isn't mature right now and I don't think it is a given that it will catch up to Windows. Especially in the near future.

Apple kinda did the same thing when they went to OSX, but they already had a large software dynasty and branding established.

 

[thatotherdude24]

It's utility seems pretty narrow to me at the moment. Windows is a proven system and far more versatile. It is possible Chrome OS will mature eventually as well (Android did) but it isn't mature right now and I don't think it is a given that it will catch up to Windows. Especially in the near future.

Apple kinda did the same thing when they went to OSX, but they already had a large software dynasty and branding established.

I wouldn't say Chrome OS isn't mature....there are literally tons of apps and extensions in the webstore. I think Google has a different goal in mind than Microsoft, Google wanted to create a cloud OS, that's what Chrome OS is. Microsoft wanted a desktop OS. Each company has a different vision for the future.

 

[TheDoros]

It's utility seems pretty narrow to me at the moment. Windows is a proven system and far more versatile. It is possible Chrome OS will mature eventually as well (Android did) but it isn't mature right now and I don't think it is a given that it will catch up to Windows. Especially in the near future.

Apple kinda did the same thing when they went to OSX, but they already had a large software dynasty and branding established.

I don't think Google is trying to replace the markets where users need video editing, photo editing, or heavy gaming. They are marketing this as a thin client solution to the mass of users who don't use that software. I get what you're saying in that it won't meet those needs, but I think those users are the minority at the end of the day.

It's like you say, it does have a narrow utility but I think that the majority of users fit right into that utility. Browsing, playing web games, Facebook, news, Twitter, etc.

 

[thatotherdude24]

I don't think Google is trying to replace the markets where users need video editing, photo editing, or heavy gaming. They are marketing this as a thin client solution to the mass of users who don't use that software. I get what you're saying in that it won't meet those needs, but I think those users are the minority at the end of the day.

It's like you say, it does have a narrow utility but I think that the majority of users fit right into that utility. Browsing, playing web games, Facebook, news, Twitter, etc.

I agree totally. Google knows they aren't replacing desktops or workstations.

Sent From My Woven Black and Yellow Moto X

 

[JeffDenver]

I don't think Google is trying to replace the markets where users need video editing, photo editing, or heavy gaming.

Some people on here have made the argument that Chromebooks can replace laptops. I don't think it is possible for the reasons I mentioned. I think the vast majority of people in the market for a mobile computer will want the flexibility a "real" OS like Windows can bring.

It's like you say, it does have a narrow utility but I think that the majority of users fit right into that utility. Browsing, playing web games, Facebook, news, Twitter, etc.

They can already do all of that on tablets and phones. Which are also more mobile. I think the majority of users that need a device for those things will just get a tablet instead.

 

[B. Diddy]

They can already do all of that on tablets and phones. Which are also more mobile. I think the majority of users that need a device for those things will just get a tablet instead.

Just because you can do similar things on a tablet or a phone doesn't mean the experience is the same. From my perspective, mobile Chrome and most other 3rd party Android browsers just aren't as quick or agile as the true Chrome browser on a laptop or Chromebook. I sometimes encounter dropdown menus or rich content websites that don't quite work right on mobile browsers. In addition, using a tablet in the same way as a Chromebook for browsing and productivity for me would require a physical keyboard, which means a Bluetooth connection (unless you have something like a Transformer or Surface), and Bluetooth keyboards can be a little glitchy, from my own experience.

I do a lot of stuff these days on a browser, especially AC stuff--answering questions, writing Guides that include a lot of images, etc.--and I've found so far that using this Chromebook, I don't miss my Windows laptop at all.

BTW, this is a great discussion--thanks to thatotherdude24 for starting this thread!

 

[thatotherdude24]

The debate in this thread is awesome.

Sent From My Woven Black and Yellow Moto X

 

[B. Diddy]

The debate in this thread is awesome.

Sent From My Woven Black and Yellow Moto X

Did you write this after seeing the comment I added on to my last post, or did we just write them at exactly the same time? Synchronicity!

 

[thatotherdude24]

Did you write this after seeing the comment I added on to my last post, or did we just write them at exactly the same time? Synchronicity!

Haha I didn't even see what you wrote.

Remember great minds buy Chromebooks

They can already do all of that on tablets and phones. Which are also more mobile. I think the majority of users that need a device for those things will just get a tablet instead.

But can you go to Walmart or Best Buy and pick up a tablet for $200? I do have one of the $150 Walmart android tablets its very frustrating because its so laggy. The Samsung tablets go all the way up to $750 and phones range from $0 to $299 but you pay for 2 years. I get what you're saying but the price point Chromebooks make is very competitive.

Sent From My Woven Black and Yellow Moto X

 

[CHIP72]

I don't think Google is trying to replace the markets where users need video editing, photo editing, or heavy gaming. They are marketing this as a thin client solution to the mass of users who don't use that software. I get what you're saying in that it won't meet those needs, but I think those users are the minority at the end of the day.

It's like you say, it does have a narrow utility but I think that the majority of users fit right into that utility. Browsing, playing web games, Facebook, news, Twitter, etc.

I agree totally. Google knows they aren't replacing desktops or workstations.

Sent From My Woven Black and Yellow Moto X

I would also add that internet connectivity, speed, and reliability will only increase in the future, and that functionality on the internet (i.e. in browsers via web apps) will also increase. Because more people use and want to use the internet than use any device-based operating system (Windows, iOS, Android, etc.), the potential for "software" development on the web is greater than it is on any of those non-cloud based operating systems.

Just because you can do similar things on a tablet or a phone doesn't mean the experience is the same. From my perspective, mobile Chrome and most other 3rd party Android browsers just aren't as quick or agile as the true Chrome browser on a laptop or Chromebook. I sometimes encounter dropdown menus or rich content websites that don't quite work right on mobile browsers. In addition, using a tablet in the same way as a Chromebook for browsing and productivity for me would require a physical keyboard, which means a Bluetooth connection (unless you have something like a Transformer or Surface), and Bluetooth keyboards can be a little glitchy, from my own experience.

I do a lot of stuff these days on a browser, especially AC stuff--answering questions, writing Guides that include a lot of images, etc.--and I've found so far that using this Chromebook, I don't miss my Windows laptop at all.

BTW, this is a great discussion--thanks to thatotherdude24 for starting this thread!

In the context of the above comment, I think it would be appropriate for me to copy a post I made in the Acer 720 subforum a couple days ago:

The issue with Chrome OS on all-touch devices is its touch capabilities (I think it either doesn't have pinch to zoom or it is limited). Having said that, I don't think a keyboard is necessary for Chrome OS to work; what IS necessary is enough horsepower to have a desktop-class browser. When you think about it, the fundamental differences between laptop form factor devices and tablets (and smartphones) besides the obvious UI difference are 1) browser quality (which relates to the processor and operating system demands) and 2) the need for apps. With the first item, the browser quality is one of the primary reasons why a lot of people (including me) like chromebooks better than tablets. With the second item, I'm of the opinion that a laptop form factor device doesn't really need apps (and by apps I mean the apps typically downloaded from a ecosystem's app store); "apps", which are essentially pre-packaged shortcuts, were created because information entry on a touchscreen device is a pain. If Chrome OS can address these three things (touch capability, apps, and browser quality) on a touchscreen device, there's no reason why Google can't create chromepads and chromephones and have an OS that can be used in all device form factor types. (The last of those three items goes back to why chromebooks' ability to function effectively with a "mobile" processor is important; they show a high quality browser can be powered by the kind of processor found in tablets and smartphones.)

In addition to the above, if you think about it you'll realize that in the long-term it makes more sense for Google to focus on Chrome OS rather than Android as their primary operating system. To be frank, Chrome OS functions miles better than Android does (or at least it has based on my user experience.) More importantly Android, like Windows, MacOS, iOS, WP8, and BB 7/10, belongs to the device-based operating system paradigm originated on personal computers in the 1970s. Such operating systems need a high amount of resources to enable continued high performance, and eventually they either need to be replaced or require users to upgrade their devices when the modified operating system is no longer supported on their devices. These limitations aren't good for the consumer, but the consumer will accept them if there aren't better alternatives. By contrast, Chrome OS is a cloud-based operating system where most of the "power" for the device is located on remote servers and the device functions more like a thin client end terminal. Such devices don't have nearly as intensive of resource requirements. More importantly, the operating system updates are performed at the server end, so the updates are both simpler and easier to implement on the device (both from the manufacturers' and users' points of view) and enable the device to function efficiently for a longer period of time. You can't have an effective cloud-based system unless there is a high capacity and reliability communications infrastructure in place. However, that kind of infrastructure is exactly the direction the world is headed as internet-based communications become increasingly common and fast.

Because of the advantages offered by cloud-based operating systems over device-based operating systems (which from the consumer end of things are primarily simplicity, speed, and low cost), I personally think within 10 years cloud-based operating systems will become the norm and device-based operating systems will become the niche, provided the cloud-based operating system requirements are met. This is the exact opposite of what we have today. Google (and to a lesser degree Mozilla with its Firefox OS) is well-positioned with Chrome OS to be a leader in this paradigm shift.

I concur with JeffDenver's comment that Chrome OS devices aren't full replacements for Windows or MacOS desktops and laptops...yet. However, I think the day when that is the case will arrive sooner than most people think.

 

[Algus]

I'm quite happy to go cheap via Chromebook and remote into my desktop but I would prefer to put my money into my desktop.

I'm not opposed to switching purely to a tablet but tablets have yet to hit that sweet spot of price vs screen size like a chromebook has. Detachables are actually my favorite so once Ubuntu Touch is ready for prime time, I might switch to a detachable full time.

Chrome OS's big problem right now is lack of software but with how well the platform has been doing the last six months, it ought to be seen as a more viable solution by more reputable software vendors. Once the software catches up with the hardware, we'll be looking great.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[thatotherdude24]

I'm quite happy to go cheap via Chromebook and remote into my desktop but I would prefer to put my money into my desktop.

I'm not opposed to switching purely to a tablet but tablets have yet to hit that sweet spot of price vs screen size like a chromebook has. Detachables are actually my favorite so once Ubuntu Touch is ready for prime time, I might switch to a detachable full time.

Chrome OS's big problem right now is lack of software but with how well the platform has been doing the last six months, it ought to be seen as a more viable solution by more reputable software vendors. Once the software catches up with the hardware, we'll be looking great.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

You seem to be a big Linux fan, do you only use it at home?

Something I haven't seen anybody mention yet but I think is a huge benefit to using a cloud OS. Upgradeability, you don't have to guy buy new hardware because a certain OS has something that another doesn't. Phones are huge with this, I love the always listening my Moto X has but only a few phones have that ability but by using a cloud OS all devices will get that feature.

Side note...anybody know how to access network shares with a chromebook?

 

[Aquila]

Photoshop is a really good example. It is something a lot of people use and would miss IMO.

There is also things like audio editing software, app development, ect...that require specialized software that the Chrome OS is unlikely to get in the near future. Chromw OS simply does not have the versatility of a "real" OS. At least not yet.

Photoshop has had a browser based web app since 2008. Over 5 years its gotten much more mature, but its also still not the best editing software available. I do get your larger point that some things don't have high quality alternative web apps yet, but in thread after thread you keep saying Photoshop and I have no idea why that's what stands out. If you get rid of false paradigm blockers such as ".exe", most people will be very hard pressed to find a TASK that they cannot easily accomplish without installing new software to a physical drive.

XTNiT-1060 through spacetime.

 

[thatotherdude24]

Photoshop has had a browser based web app since 2008. Over 5 years its gotten much more mature, but its also still not the best editing software available. I do get your larger point that some things don't have high quality alternative web apps yet, but in thread after thread you keep saying Photoshop and I have no idea why that's what stands out. If you get rid of false paradigm blockers such as ".exe", most people will be very hard pressed to find a TASK that they cannot easily accomplish without installing new software to a physical drive.

XTNiT-1060 through spacetime.

Before I bought my chromebook I never would have imagined that the web store had so many apps. Everything that I do on my workstation computers I can easily do on my chromebook through extensions and I can have them setup in various spots because everything I have can be gotten to on any of them.

I think we're starting to uncover that this is similar to W8.1, the biggest haters are often those who have never used the product they are talking bad about. I am not saying JeffDenver has never used a chromebook but unless you actually have gone through and looked at what is offered in the web store you wouldn't know how productive a chromebook can be.

 

[CHIP72]

I think we're starting to uncover that this is similar to W8.1, the biggest haters are often those who have never used the product they are talking bad about. I am not saying JeffDenver has never used a chromebook but unless you actually have gone through and looked at what is offered in the web store you wouldn't know how productive a chromebook can be.

The above quote gets at why (in part because I have a decent amount of discretionary income) I've bought devices for every reasonably popular and commercially available operating system - Windows (both 7 and 8), Android, iOS, Windows RT, WP7, WP8, BB7, BB10, webOS, and Chrome OS; about the only one I haven't bought is OSX/MacOS (because of cost) but I may buy the next generation MacBook Pro this fall or a Haswell MacBook Pro if/when it drops in price. You can't know what a system is like until you use it. I also like thinking about what companies' strategies are, and you can gain some insight by using the devices they've produced and seeing those devices' strengths and weaknesses.

I can honestly say that outside of possibly my smartphones (particularly the iPhone 5 and possibly the Lumia 928), which are much more personal devices that I will use more than my desktops (home and work), laptops, and tablets, my chromebook is my favorite computing device. Its ease of use and speed despite having low-end hardware has really sold me on the benefits of cloud-based operating systems. When you think about how much information we already have in the cloud and how much we rely on it - like web-based e-mail via Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo, etc. as one example - and how convenient it is to be able access everything by storing it in the cloud, it becomes very obvious that 1) the cloud will continue to improve and become more integrated into people's lives and 2) that cloud-based operating systems will continue to make more and more sense. The Chrome OS devices (and for that matter the Firefox OS smartphones) available now are only Chapter 1 of a likely epic novel featuring the story of cloud-based operating systems.

Something I haven't seen anybody mention yet but I think is a huge benefit to using a cloud OS. Upgradeability, you don't have to guy buy new hardware because a certain OS has something that another doesn't. Phones are huge with this, I love the always listening my Moto X has but only a few phones have that ability but by using a cloud OS all devices will get that feature.

Side note...anybody know how to access network shares with a chromebook?

Hey, I HAVE been saying what I bolded above. Look at the second paragraph of the second quote of post #82 above! (To be fair, the referenced quote talks more about the upgrade requirement issue more from the disadvantages of device-based operating systems point of view rather than the benefit of cloud-based operating systems point of view. The point is still essentially the same though.)

For what it's worth, a couple of major chromebook advocate bloggers on the internet are:

*JR Raphael, Computer World
*James Kendrick, ZDNet

Another ZDNet writer and self-proclaimed computer expert, Ken Hess, recently spent the entire month of February using the Acer 710 chromebook (not the 720, the 710) as his only non-work device for "writing, browsing, image editing, emailing, and communicating". The results of his test are outlined in his March 8th blog post on ZDNet.

One more thing - the creator of Chrome OS, former Google employee Jeff Nelson, has a website, jeff-nelson.com, which includes a subsection titled In the Clouds, that features some of his thoughts about Chrome OS.

 

[B. Diddy]

I saw that article about using the C710 for a month--it's too bad they didn't use the C720. There was this article by Kendrick where he talked about starting to use the C720--I thought he was going to follow up with another article describing the experience: Day one with the Acer C720 Chromebook | ZDNet

 

[Algus]

You seem to be a big Linux fan, do you only use it at home?

Mostly. Some of our really old CLI software at work is running on Linux but as an end-user on that software as opposed to the engineers working on it, the distinction is largely meaningless to me. I've used Linux regularly since 2006 and I fully replaced Windows in 2008. I only use Windows now for a few computer games on my desktop. For the rest, I use...well just about everything else. My desktop is a Mac w/OS X and a Windows partition and my current laptop is my HP 14 w/ Chrome OS and a Xubuntu chroot.

If I made more money (a lot more money...) I probably would have gone all in with OS X as I love it but it's hard to justify a $1000+ computer when a $200-$350 computer does all the things I need.

 

[dkhmwilliams]

I saw that article about using the C710 for a month--it's too bad they didn't use the C720. There was this article by Kendrick where he talked about starting to use the C720--I thought he was going to follow up with another article describing the experience: Day one with the Acer C720 Chromebook | ZDNet

I really enjoyed his thoughts on the C720. I agree with him wholeheartedly. I even learned a few gestures that I wasn't aware of. For those who are saying that a Chromebook cannot be a laptop replacement, I believe that it can if you adopt certain things. I believe, eventually, that the Chromebook will become the future. There were many that believed that an iPad couldn't replace a laptop, and people have since replaced their laptops with iPads with bluetooth keyboards. The Chromebook is the next level in my opinion. It has been such a joy for me to use. I still cannot believe that I paid just $200 for this.