Does pentile make the screen not truly HD?

[Poopai]

Edited by Moderator

Such grand and offensive statements, but on what grounds, what evidence? None, I do declare. All you will find from me is truth, and defense from unjust attack. But what of you, my fine gentleman? The evidence and grounds for your own banishment is laid upon a platter with your own words; for to say such libelous things to a man even of the guilt of what you so call him, is not allowed, but to say them to such a man as innocent and righteous as myself? Well, that is a crime of a whole other order.

 

[Jaycemiskel]

Such grand and offensive statements, but on what grounds, what evidence? None, I do declare. All you will find from me is truth, and defense from unjust attack. But what of you, my fine gentleman? The evidence and grounds for your own banishment is laid upon a platter with your own words; for to say such libelous things to a man even of the guilt of what you so call him, is not allowed, but to say them to such a man as innocent and righteous as myself? Well, that is a crime of a whole other order.

Lmao. Troll or not, that was funny.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[odranoel]

You're only looking at things from a singular perspective, that of your inability to distinguish difference in detail while viewing the screen as you normally would, and assigning value from only that. This is of course a fallacy, as all perspectives must be examined, valued, and then added up to the ultimate value and meaning. So even if I grant you that from your singular perspective the argument is meaningless, other perspectives produce meaning, such as viewing the screen through a magnifying glass, and thus the total meaning is raised above 0, and thus to argue that one screen shows more potential detail than the other is not meaningless.

I'm not going to engage you in arguing over the meaning of "meaningless." I merely echoed your word to describe the argument that the resolution is unchanged by the use of pentile. By your own logic, that argument has some amount of meaning and is not meaningless.

The screen is a "tool of use," and as much as I am loathe to invoke Protagoras, of tools man is the measure. Scrutinize the screen with a magnifying glass all you like. It makes no practical difference what the screen looks like when enlarged 100x. The ultimate determination is an aesthetic one.

 

[JeffDenver]

Does the pentile screen mean that the "720p" resolution doesn't actually show the same detail as a"normal" screen? If so, what is the actual effective resolution of the screen?

No, ICS does that. At least on the Galaxy Nexus.

720p is a pixel measurement, and there are 720 pixels. ICS uses some of them for the Nav buttons...which are not part of the actual display on other phones. They take up pixel real estate. Thats why I dont consider the GN to be true 720p. But it is "technically" a true 720p display.

I have seen the pentile display in the store, and I actually think it looks quite good. The complaints about pentile are that it is prone to jaggies and is dimmer than other displays. It did not look that dim to me, and the issue with jaggies is probably trivial because the resolution is so high. It's PPI is still comparable to the iPhone's retina display, and that is a big deal IMO. I still like the Rezound's display better, but the GN has a fantastic screen that kills every phone right now that is NOT a Rezound.

 

[JeffDenver]

This thread is going to piss me off, I can already tell. Everybody here needs to understand that pentile matrix tecnhnology has NOTHING to do with resolution.

This.

All Pentile means is that it handles SUBpixels differently from other display types. But resolution is measured with pixels, not subpixels.

 

[Poopai]

I'm not going to engage you in arguing over the meaning of "meaningless." I merely echoed your word to describe the argument that the resolution is unchanged by the use of pentile. By your own logic, that argument has some amount of meaning and is not meaningless.

My claim about meaninglessness concerning the term "720p" for pentile was correct, as my statement had the context of a specific perspective (that of total potential detail), rather than a more general perspective (that of the ability to distinguish detail), under which you made your claim, and under which all potential scenarios of distinguishing detail needed to be examined and valued.

The screen is a "tool of use," and as much as I am loathe to invoke Protagoras, of tools man is the measure. Scrutinize the screen with a magnifying glass all you like. It makes no practical difference what the screen looks like when enlarged 100x. The ultimate determination is an aesthetic one.

Practical difference doesn't concern me and I never stated it did. I merely asked a question and all I got were attacks and red herrings about how "it doesn't matter" (Because of course they fear the true answer).

 

[ultravisitor]

No, ICS does that. At least on the Galaxy Nexus.

720p is a pixel measurement, and there are 720 pixels. ICS uses some of them for the Nav buttons...which are not part of the actual display on other phones. They take up pixel real estate. Thats why I dont consider the GN to be true 720p. But it is "technically" a true 720p display.

Except, you're not quite correct. The buttons completely disappear when playing a video. They only reappear -- and take up pixels -- when navigating within a video.

Observe:

When a video is left alone to play:

When navigating within a video:

It works the same with photos.

Yes, the buttons appearing do make the rest of the content smaller, but how much does it really matter? Do you REALLY need to read your email and view webpages in a full 720p? The only time the resolution really matters that much to me is when I'm looking at pictures or video. Otherwise, it's just picking nits...

 

[edoublediz]

No, ICS does that. At least on the Galaxy Nexus.

720p is a pixel measurement, and there are 720 pixels. ICS uses some of them for the Nav buttons...which are not part of the actual display on other phones. They take up pixel real estate. Thats why I dont consider the GN to be true 720p. But it is "technically" a true 720p display.

I have seen the pentile display in the store, and I actually think it looks quite good. The complaints about pentile are that it is prone to jaggies and is dimmer than other displays. It did not look that dim to me, and the issue with jaggies is probably trivial because the resolution is so high. It's PPI is still comparable to the iPhone's retina display, and that is a big deal IMO. I still like the Rezound's display better, but the GN has a fantastic screen that kills every phone right now that is NOT a Rezound.

actually there are 921,600 pixels on a 720P device! also, ICS actually does not use any of the 720 pixels for menu buttons. it is using pixels on the 1280 axis! i cant remember correctly but i think it uses 96 pixels and leaves 1184. thirdly, so by your logic your TV is not 1080p because your cable or sat provider uses some of that real estate for headers or footers on the screen? a 720p screen is a 720p screen, it has absolutely nothing to do with what is displayed on it.

 

[Cyber Warrior]

Please keep things civilized in here guys... there's hundreds of threads already about the debate of pentile screens. No ones forcing you to post here... if you don't like the thread topic... ignore it and it will go away faster.

 

[heartagram616]

As someone who owned a Rezound and now the nexus I can honestly say the only difference I've noticed is the nexus has more saturated colors but that is any amoled screen. As for pixels I didn't notice them on the Rezound and haven't noticed them on the nexus either. It is a gorgeous display IMHO.

 

[oktrav]

For all the talk about pentile displays in this forum, does everyone on here genuinely understand what makes them different from a traditional RGB stipe display? I'd bet not.

This following page contains the most exhaustive explanation of pentile technology (both RGBG, as used in Samsung phones like our GNex and RGBW -used by Moto in phones like DX2 and Bionic) that I could find on these great wide interwebs. It's a pretty worthwhile read with excellent diagrams and photos to illustrate the differences between the different displays types.


On RGBW, Pentile, Sub-pixels and ‘Graininess’ of mobile displays | Expiance



--
Travis

 

[jroc]

The great Pentile debate still rages on I see...lol

Does it get better from phone to phone when the specs get increased, sure? Many ppl have said that. Can it still be seen by some ppl, even on the G Nex? Its possible. Some folks even made that a decision for them to NOT get the G Nex after comparing it to the Rezound. I have found that on the Bionic and RAZR....viewing distances make all the difference. Specific instances make all the difference.

Cuz BOTH of those phones are no where near as bad as some ppl made/make it. The RAZR screen is not a whole lot better than the Bionic's screen either as some ppl made/make it. Already I can tell you that...to me....at my normal viewing distances...the RAZR and DX1 screen is almost identical for sharpness. Start holding them closer and the differences become more noticeable.

The ONLY time I can really tell the difference at normal viewing distances is in the Youtube app with the red 'NEW' word. Red letters on black backgrounds.....like black letters on green backgrounds for the Bionic... stand out more.....

To me....thats the key....to me...

I have G Nex coming tomorrow....I have my OG Droid, DX1 and RAZR here waiting for comparisons.

LCD wins for sharpness and whites vs. Pentile screens. It is what it is. But after spending a month with the RAZR...I like Amoled screens more, Pentile and non Pentile. The pros of Amoled screens outweigh the pros of LCD's for me. Some ppl like and picked the Rezound over the G Nex for a reason. One was probably sharpness.

For me, my eyes...the closer I hold the RAZR, the more noticeable Pentile becomes. Maybe with the G Nex one can hold it a lil closer and Pentile isnt noticeable. Maybe Its not as noticeable on the G Nex unless held closer than other phones with Pentile. But...like with the Bionic, RAZR, and other phones that had Pentile last year....everyone doesnt have the same eye site and viewing distances.

Maybe some ppl HAVE to or WANT to hold these phones closer than most of us....in that case there's no sense in trying to argue this.

We ....are....all....different.
We...may....all...see...things...differently.
We...may...all...use...our...phones...differently.

 

[Poopai]

For all the talk about pentile displays in this forum, does everyone on here genuinely understand what makes them different from a traditional RGB stipe display? I'd bet not.

This following page contains the most exhaustive explanation of pentile technology (both RGBG, as used in Samsung phones like our GNex and RGBW -used by Moto in phones like DX2 and Bionic) that I could find on these great wide interwebs. It's a pretty worthwhile read with excellent diagrams and photos to illustrate the differences between the different displays types.


On RGBW, Pentile, Sub-pixels and ‘Graininess’ of mobile displays | Expiance

Seems like from that link is that the real "effective" PPI of the Galaxy Nexus screen is around like 230ish rather than 320ish.

 

[JeffDenver]

actually there are 921,600 pixels on a 720P device!

Can you guess why it is not called 921,600p? lol

ICS actually does not use any of the 720 pixels for menu buttons. it is using pixels on the 1280 axis!

How does that change what I said? It is using pixels on the display for Navigation...pixels that would otherwise be displaying content. You are arguing semantics.

i cant remember correctly but i think it uses 96 pixels and leaves 1184. thirdly, so by your logic your TV is not 1080p because your cable or sat provider uses some of that real estate for headers or footers on the screen?

Correct...thats a good example actually. But the display itself really is 1080p, since it is the CONTENT provider doing that...not the TV itself.

By contrast, the GN has no hardware Nav buttons. It would be as if you had no remote control for your TV and instead had an image of a remote control on the screen itself.

a 720p screen is a 720p screen

Technically. And if you read my original post, I did clarify that explicitly.

But if part of your 1080p TV had controls on it and that was the only way you could control it (so they had to be on there all the time) you would probably not consider that a real 1080p display either.

 

[JeffDenver]

Except, you're not quite correct. The buttons completely disappear when playing a video.

They dont disappear on the Rezound. I can still tap the home button in the middle of a video, and without any loss to the display.

Yes, the buttons appearing do make the rest of the content smaller, but how much does it really matter?

Probably very little to most people. But it is a downside to a lack of hardware buttons.

Do you REALLY need to read your email and view webpages in a full 720p?

All else being equal, If you had a choice of a full 720p or one with a menu on it taking up space which would be better? You could argue that it is such a trivial difference that it doesnt matter, but no one is going to PREFER having fewer pixels on screen.

Its like comparing a car with 18mpg to one with 18.1mpg...you could say that you dont care because the difference is so small, but all else being equal no one is going to want the 18mpg car first.

 

[FrogVomit]

I love my GN, and have no use for any more pixels than it has. I looks perfect to my eyes (except for some slight blotchiness at minimum brightness).

However, as a digital imaging professional with a degree in Image Science, this is definitely not a "true" HD screen. Only the green channel has 720p resolution. I would not buy a 60" pentile HDTV, unless maybe it was quad-HD.

 

[greydarrah]

For me, the technical discussion of pentile screens is similar to discussing how electricity travels from a power plant to my light bulb. All I really care about is when I flip the switch, do my lights come on? If you like the way the screen looks on the GN (regardless of it's technology) then buy it, use it, and enjoy it. If you have super power eyes and can see pixels that bother you, then get a different phone. None of this argument regarding pixels, buttons and screen size is going to change the phone. You either like it, or you don't. It's a personal preference and either decision is the right one for you.

 

[Poopai]

For me, the technical discussion of pentile screens is similar to discussing how electricity travels from a power plant to my light bulb. All I really care about is when I flip the switch, do my lights come on? If you like the way the screen looks on the GN (regardless of it's technology) then buy it, use it, and enjoy it. If you have super power eyes and can see pixels that bother you, then get a different phone. None of this argument regarding pixels, buttons and screen size is going to change the phone. You either like it, or you don't. It's a personal preference and either decision is the right one for you.

This is just a compromise for a world in which there is no unity. We must strive for a world where all would make the same choices, so that the world will be at peace. If people can't see the pixels they can always get reading glasses, and that will help them follow the same path as those who can.

 

[JeffDenver]

For me, the technical discussion of pentile screens is similar to discussing how electricity travels from a power plant to my light bulb. All I really care about is when I flip the switch, do my lights come on? If you like the way the screen looks on the GN (regardless of it's technology) then buy it, use it, and enjoy it. If you have super power eyes and can see pixels that bother you, then get a different phone. None of this argument regarding pixels, buttons and screen size is going to change the phone. You either like it, or you don't. It's a personal preference and either decision is the right one for you.

I agree, but I think it is something people should know about if they are choosing a new phone. And that is part of the point of this forum...discussing the pros and cons of different Android phones.

 

[VideoEngineerAJS]

I agree, but I think it is something people should know about if they are choosing a new phone. And that is part of the point of this forum...discussing the pros and cons of different Android phones.

While this may be true, pure on paper spec discrimination is ridiculous. For instance, I don't care who you are, having worked extensively in HD production, the average person is not going to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a screen smaller than 60" and as an aside the average HD channel still broadcasts in 720p (obviously not talking about the ESPNs).

That's why the previous poster said it's best for people to see for themselves instead of basing everything off of people who seem to be actively trying to hate the phone.