Fingerprint= loss of 5th amendment rights

[Brent Michael]

Just red this article that basically says, depending on state, that police can revoke your 5th amendment rights if you use fingerprint unlock and force you to unlock your device causing you to possibly incriminate yourself.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.theatlantic.com

 

[Aquila]

Yes, there was a blog post on this earlier this year by Jerry. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that because police have a right to collect fingerprints they are able to do this, whereas they still can't compel you to unlock a combination, such as on a safe, and therefore a pin number is treated that way.

On a much more important note, this is not a loss of the 5th amendment rights, it's just that they don't apply to this certain circumstance. Rights are not something that can be taken away or even given away, other than when certain ones are suspended, such as when you are in prison or during martial law, etc.

In this case, the court is merely describing their reasoning in why an officer of the court may be able to compel some information while not being able to compel other information. At any point during a stop, you do have the right to decline to answer questions without having your attorney present should you wish it and so you could still decline to consent to a search until your attorney arrives (with some exceptions, which your phone will not be one).

 

[Adam Frix]

exactly. Your physical fingerprint is different, under the law, than something you keep inside your head. They can't compel you to reveal something you keep inside your head, but they can compel you to place your physical finger on the button.

The answer is, if you find yourself in a situation like this, simply power down the phone. That's it. On power-up the phone will require the PIN, and that's that.

This is why cops in the UK are "mugging" suspects while they're using their phones. Armed with a warrant, they will come at all angles in force and in complete surprise, giving the suspect zero chance of powering down his phone. They're even going so far as to assign cops to stay with the phone 24/7, preventing it from locking, while they get the info they need from it.

So if you're worried about your fingerprint, don't be. Your fingerprint has nothing to do with what cops will do to try to get your information.

I think it's time for a remote service that periodically--every half hour, every five minutes, whatever--locks your phone no matter what you're doing on it, and requires a PIN to unlock. But even then, the cops would simply go into a Faraday cage. That means the system must be on your phone itself, then, and not require a remote trigger. Maybe the unlock can be remotely validated. Maybe lack of remote validation after three locks ends up wiping your phone. But then the cops just go to Google or Apple and demand to see the backup they're storing.

And on, and on.

 

[ajb1965]

Or just don't communicate about your criminal activities on your phone. Even better, just don't do them at all.

 

[TheMarcus]

I think it's time for a remote service that periodically--every half hour, every five minutes, whatever--locks your phone no matter what you're doing on it, and requires a PIN to unlock.

This is simple and doesn't require any remote service. You just just use an automation app to lock your device. Anytime an app that's set as a device administrator turns your screen off, you're required to unlock your phone first with your secondary method.

 

[ABOSWORTH007]

If this ever came up and a law enforcement officer got your phone and saw that it had a fingerprint unlock, all you'd have to do is use the wrong finger and it will lock up and require the secondary method.

 

[Almeuit]

If you really are worried just power down your phone if ever pulled over or whatever. The phone then requires PIN on restart and they can't force you to give that up.

 

[Adam Frix]

Or just don't communicate about your criminal activities on your phone. Even better, just don't do them at all.

That's not what people are worried about. They're worried about cops doing this without real evidence or provocation, simply because they're cops--and once they have your information, they can make anything they want of it.

 

[Almeuit]

That's not what people are worried about. They're worried about cops doing this without real evidence or provocation, simply because they're cops--and once they have your information, they can make anything they want of it.

If worried do what I suggested above. Done and done .

 

[Adam Frix]

You mean like I suggested above you, 16 hours earlier?

 

[Mike Dee]

Just red this article that basically says, depending on state, that police can revoke your 5th amendment rights if you use fingerprint unlock and force you to unlock your device causing you to possibly incriminate yourself.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.theatlantic.com

If only the link worked so I could read it

 

[Wiley_11]

If only the link worked so I could read it

Can Police Make You Use Your Fingerprint to Unlock Your Phone? - The Atlantic

 

[eshropshire]

That's not what people are worried about. They're worried about cops doing this without real evidence or provocation, simply because they're cops--and once they have your information, they can make anything they want of it.

If you read the article you will see that a search warrant is required to get someone to unlock their phone. So a random police office can't get you to unlock your phone without getting a warrant. If this is concerning anyone there is a simple solution - don't use bio metrics to secure your devices. My computer has a finger print reader, I assume it falls under the same guidelines.

 

[Mike Dee]

You mean like I suggested above you, 16 hours earlier?

As an alternative you can use the wrong finger several times to lockout the FPS. This means you have to have on-body detection disabled in smart lock though.

 

[Almeuit]

You mean like I suggested above you, 16 hours earlier?

Exactly! You get it .

 

[anon(10101748)]

Actually, this is on the books in all 50 of the United States and DC. It works differently though depending whether the phone was used during the crime or was taken into evidence. It's a loophole. When arrested, by law you are fingerprinted and thus the authorities have the right to scan your print if the phone is evidence. That's why a PIN or Alphanumeric Code actually prefects your privacy more than your fingerprint. In some states its a loophole while in others its become actual law.

It will be overturned eventually. Privacy just hasn't been sorted out yet for these instances.

 

[Mike Dee]

Actually, this is on the books in all 50 of the United States and DC. It works differently though depending whether the phone was used during the crime or was taken into evidence. It's a loophole. When arrested, by law you are fingerprinted and thus the authorities have the right to scan your print if the phone is evidence. That's why a PIN or Alphanumeric Code actually prefects your privacy more than your fingerprint. In some states its a loophole while in others its become actual law.

It will be overturned eventually. Privacy just hasn't been sorted out yet for these instances.

I think you're right.... eventually it will be overturned

 

[juliesdroidsync]

just tell them it's a Note 7...

 

[biotron2000]

As was said earlier, don't commit crimes. Problem solved.

 

[Mike Dee]

As was said earlier, don't commit crimes. Problem solved.

Exactly.... But you never know when something you think is innocent can get you jammed up.