How to effectively use a task killer with Froyo

[jasonvancouver]

Google has said task killers are a waste of time on 2.2 . They work ok on 2.1 but everything you close on 2.2 opens right back up. And they drain your batt.

Yes, I just read a short article on that.

My solution... I have ATK installed, but I disabled the "autokill" function. So it will not kill tasks unless I specifically ask it to. And unless I am having problems, It won't kills the apps., as the article suggested.

Wish someone would come out with a definitive statement on this, there is a lot of confusion.

Verizon themselves were the ones to get me to install ATK.

 

[anon(39328)]

Glad to here its working out, that's what I see as well, my phone will stay at 100% battery for about four hours after a full charge if the phone isn't being used. If you're using the phone then the task killer isn't going to change things much because the drain is coming from what you are actively using.
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Well, I wrapped up my experiment today. Had three issues come up since yesterday, which made me decide to uninstall ATK.

1: Voice recognition stopped working. I could get the prompt by pushing the microphone button or long pressing the search button, but it wouldn't respond to voice commands. Had to restart the phone to get it working again. I didn't see any way to exclude this from the kill list.

2: Freeze up at lock screen. Had to pull battery.

3: Alarm did not go off this morning as scheduled. I didn't see any way to exclude the alarm or clock from the kill list.

Thanks for the suggestion though. As you said in your original post, it didn't hurt to try.

 

[vblok0910#WP]

Well, I wrapped up my experiment today. Had three issues come up since yesterday, which made me decide to uninstall ATK.

1: Voice recognition stopped working. I could get the prompt by pushing the microphone button or long pressing the search button, but it wouldn't respond to voice commands. Had to restart the phone to get it working again. I didn't see any way to exclude this from the kill list.

2: Freeze up at lock screen. Had to pull battery.

3: Alarm did not go off this morning as scheduled. I didn't see any way to exclude the alarm or clock from the kill list.

Thanks for the suggestion though. As you said in your original post, it didn't hurt to try.

I had the same issues, Uninstalled ATK

 

[jasonvancouver]

I had the same issues, Uninstalled ATK

Diggity and Vblok, can you guys give us a follow up post after a few days, now that you have uninstalled ATK and let us know if any additional battery drain, etc?

 

[anon(39328)]

Diggity and Vblok, can you guys give us a follow up post after a few days, now that you have uninstalled ATK and let us know if any additional battery drain, etc?

Actually, I gotta say that today was a pretty good day as far as battery life goes. I got off work after 9 hours with about 80% left on the battery, which is much better than what I've been seeing since 2.2. The battery only charged for a few minutes today while I transferred a few files from the phone to my work pc.

 

[Fahrenheit]

It's very strange that you guys all have so many problems with Task Killers. I have ATK installed and don't experience the battery drain, crashes, etc. like you guys do. I don't have it auto-kill apps however.

The point of a task killer is to kill a task that you don't want running. I don't understand why people have such vitriol towards that idea. Every operating system for the past 20 years has had a task killer...because OS developers understand that people don't always write good programs, and they sometimes crash. If one crashes, there needs to be a low-level way to close it. I shouldn't have to go through a myriad of steps just to stop a process...and I shouldn't have the ability taken away.

I don't blame people for passing misinformation about task killers; they just don't understand the inner workings behind them. Of course a running program will use battery life! It takes electricity to keep the circuits charged and storing code in RAM...that's why it's CLEARED when you turn your phone off. It might be a small amount of electricity that's used, but every bit adds up, and drains battery life.

People take Google at their word that there is no need for task killers. That may be true for the majority of users who will never look at a running process on their phone. However, for power users, it is a necessity. Also, there should be a way to stop processes from running automatically. Luckily I have root and can do this, but I shouldn't need to hack root access to do it. Again, this is something that has been present in all operating systems for the past 20 years.

Taking away the ability to accomplish something just turns this platform into open source iPhone OS.

 

[logan78511]

It's very strange that you guys all have so many problems with Task Killers. I have ATK installed and don't experience the battery drain, crashes, etc. like you guys do. I don't have it auto-kill apps however.

The point of a task killer is to kill a task that you don't want running. I don't understand why people have such vitriol towards that idea. Every operating system for the past 20 years has had a task killer...because OS developers understand that people don't always write good programs, and they sometimes crash. If one crashes, there needs to be a low-level way to close it. I shouldn't have to go through a myriad of steps just to stop a process...and I shouldn't have the ability taken away.

I don't blame people for passing misinformation about task killers; they just don't understand the inner workings behind them. Of course a running program will use battery life! It takes electricity to keep the circuits charged and storing code in RAM...that's why it's CLEARED when you turn your phone off. It might be a small amount of electricity that's used, but every bit adds up, and drains battery life.

People take Google at their word that there is no need for task killers. That may be true for the majority of users who will never look at a running process on their phone. However, for power users, it is a necessity. Also, there should be a way to stop processes from running automatically. Luckily I have root and can do this, but I shouldn't need to hack root access to do it. Again, this is something that has been present in all operating systems for the past 20 years.

Taking away the ability to accomplish something just turns this platform into open source iPhone OS.

Umm well that would be because killing the app that they don't want running with task killer DOES NO GOOD. The APP comes right back within a few minutes after killing. Which makes it take more battery life. Because you used battery life to kill the app and then it uses battery life just to bring the APP right back a few minutes later.

For power users it has become useless. No one is taking Google's word for it. It's by personal experience. I used ATK in 2.1 quite often. It had more use there. In 2.2 it simply gives you no advantage. It only makes things worse. You aren't experiencing none of these problems because you have been using it the whole time so you don't know how it goes without it.

If you kill almost any app that runs on it's own in 2.2 it will be back in less than 2 or 3 minutes running again. And those are the only apps that most people don't want running.

 

[Fahrenheit]

Umm well that would be because killing the app that they don't want running with task killer DOES NO GOOD. The APP comes right back within a few minutes after killing. Which makes it take more battery life. Because you used battery life to kill the app and then it uses battery life just to bring the APP right back a few minutes later.

For power users it has become useless. No one is taking Google's word for it. It's by personal experience. I used ATK in 2.1 quite often. It had more use there. In 2.2 it simply gives you no advantage. It only makes things worse. You aren't experiencing none of these problems because you have been using it the whole time so you don't know how it goes without it.

If you kill almost any app that runs on it's own in 2.2 it will be back in less than 2 or 3 minutes running again. And those are the only apps that most people don't want running.

I don't think you're getting the point though...task killing has become useless because Google coded it that way. If you kill a task and it comes back, it's because Google saw it fit to do so. I absolutely understand why it's happening now, I just don't agree with their "Steve Jobs-like" removal of features.

 

[Revolutionary]

I don't think you're getting the point though...task killing has become useless because Google coded it that way. If you kill a task and it comes back, it's because Google saw it fit to do so. I absolutely understand why it's happening now, I just don't agree with their "Steve Jobs-like" removal of features.

It's not about removal of features. For selective task closing like you describe, you can still do that through Settings > Applications > Currently running (akin to the Task Manager in Windows). But auto-killers turned out to be more trouble than they were worth. I completely agree with the decision to close off access to system level APIs that were only useful in a handful of situations, but were widely used and widely responsible for problems.

As for why they aren't necessary, this is good commentary:

Why you don’t need a task killer app with Android. ? AndroidSPIN | Your No.1 source for Everything Android.

 

[Qazme]

It's not about removal of features. For selective task closing like you describe, you can still do that through Settings > Applications > Currently running (akin to the Task Manager in Windows). But auto-killers turned out to be more trouble than they were worth. I completely agree with the decision to close off access to system level APIs that were only useful in a handful of situations, but were widely used and widely responsible for problems.

As for why they aren't necessary, this is good commentary:

Why you don?t need a task killer app with Android. ? AndroidSPIN | Your No.1 source for Everything Android.

I agree with you. Task killers where causing tons more problems than good not to mention giving bad information about the android system in both the general public and to the report a bug feature. I hate when people start talking about how Android works and features being removed, and how things work.....with no information other than what they have made up in their heads. Start reading some SDK people and you may figure out why it was changed. Heck start out with the link quoted from Revolutionary, it's a good starting point.

 

[Fahrenheit]

It's not about removal of features. For selective task closing like you describe, you can still do that through Settings > Applications > Currently running (akin to the Task Manager in Windows). But auto-killers turned out to be more trouble than they were worth. I completely agree with the decision to close off access to system level APIs that were only useful in a handful of situations, but were widely used and widely responsible for problems.

I mentioned above that I was aware of the long way to force-close a task, I just prefer having a quick way to do it. Why take 4 clicks to close an app, when a task killer allows you to do it in 2?

I hate when people start talking about how Android works and features being removed, and how things work.....with no information other than what they have made up in their heads.

I'm not sure why you think that "task killing" as a feature wasn't removed...obviously it was there, and now it's not...clearly not made up. Even reading that article, it doesn't take away the need to kill a task sometimes.

Let's play devil's advocate. A developer writes a virus that automatically loads on startup. If you see it running in the background, you'd want to kill it, then delete it. However, as it stands now, you kill it, Android starts it back up, so you can't delete it. How do you remove it?

I think people get confused about what Android is...it's Linux. Take away the ability to kill tasks in any other flavor of Linux (Ubuntu, Red Hat, Suse, etc.) and see how long it takes for sysadmins to scream to put it back. I understand that most people won't need to kill a task ever, so they manage tasks for you. Fine, but I'd still prefer the ability.

 

[PvilleComp]

I think people get confused about what Android is...it's Linux. Take away the ability to kill tasks in any other flavor of Linux (Ubuntu, Red Hat, Suse, etc.) and see how long it takes for sysadmins to scream to put it back. I understand that most people won't need to kill a task ever, so they manage tasks for you. Fine, but I'd still prefer the ability.

Yes because most users of Linux are SysAdmins!

I would go out on a limb and say that most users of android phones have never heard of Linux, and for a great number of the ones who say they have heard of it, they think it's a Snoopy character.

I would agree with the "save the task killer" argument if the vast majority of users were technical. However, if you look at the "task-killer" threads here in the forum (for 2.1 and 2.2), you would have to agree that they definitely cause more problems then good in unknowledgeable hands.

 

[Fahrenheit]

However, if you look at the "task-killer" threads here in the forum (for 2.1 and 2.2), you would have to agree that they definitely cause more problems then good in unknowledgeable hands.

I would agree with that statement

 

[lcsglvr]

hehe, Lie-nux ... brilliant.

 

[markymark]

Best way to use a task killer on Android?

Menu --> Settings --> applications --> find it --> uninstall it.

If you have apps you 'have to kill' because it's killing your battery etc, wouldn't it behoove you to take the malfunctioning app off your phone and find a better alternative? Task killers at best are a bandaid solution to a stab wound.



I suggest you go read the differences of how Android versus iPhone or Blackberry works. Android is a vastly different system than Blackberry where you HAVE to shut down services instantly to keep the phone stable. That's like comparing C# with HTML5, nothing similar.

I have read much of the anti-task killer mumbo jumbo from android "experts". Being a software developer myself, I can tell you that how the developers intended it to work and how it actually works can be light years apart. I can say without a doubt that under 2.1, ATK significantly improved battery life no matter what the "experts" say. And why take away the option with Froyo? Android is supposed to be "open source". It's all about freedom....if you want to use a task killer you should have the option to do so. If the android "experts" are so omnipotent, then why is battery life so much worse after this so called "upgrade" to 2.2?

 

[easy1jay]

It's so much easier just not to use one. The Incredible runs plenty fast as it is, even with apps running in the background, so let it be.

 

[jasonvancouver]

It's so much easier just not to use one. The Incredible runs plenty fast as it is, even with apps running in the background, so let it be.

Agreed.

One other way to handle it, for people who feel they have to use ATK, is to turn off the autokill. That way it ever be activated unless the user chooses to.

 

[Qazme]

I'm not sure why you think that "task killing" as a feature wasn't removed...obviously it was there, and now it's not...clearly not made up. Even reading that article, it doesn't take away the need to kill a task sometimes.

Let's play devil's advocate. A developer writes a virus that automatically loads on startup. If you see it running in the background, you'd want to kill it, then delete it. However, as it stands now, you kill it, Android starts it back up, so you can't delete it. How do you remove it?

I think people get confused about what Android is...it's Linux. Take away the ability to kill tasks in any other flavor of Linux (Ubuntu, Red Hat, Suse, etc.) and see how long it takes for sysadmins to scream to put it back. I understand that most people won't need to kill a task ever, so they manage tasks for you. Fine, but I'd still prefer the ability.

I never implied that "task killing" was or wasn't removed. I can still close apps, that I've added to the phone, just fine if I need too. And they don't come back. I was talking about some of the posters talking about the hows and why or what it does, and it isn't fact. The taking away of task killers is the same thing, you can still do it, you just can auto do it with ATK......

Bad thing is, is when people say Android is Linux. The footwork, the base, or android is Linux.....however Android is so far branched off from Linux hardly anything is the same really. That's kind of like claiming Windows CE is Windows XP or Vista. Either way, the point here is we aren't talking about system admins or actually server / network administrators crying because they can't shut services down, we are talking about mom and pop cell phone users. Most of them don't even know what ATK is much less the market.

I think the reason behind most of this was to control the key core services that make the phone operate. You know all the people complaining because their alarms don't work, that maps doesn't work, the calendar doesn't work, the phone is crashing etc etc etc. Why? Bottom line ended up being, "hey I uninstalled ATK like you guys said and all my issues are gone." Kind of makes running one a moot point for the simple fact that all the "sysAdmins" out there using their phones don't know how to properly setup a task killer to where it helps more than harms. That's why the "feature" has been removed. With that being said any app that is in the data/app directory and not the system/app directory can still be auto killed from what I've seen.

Your point with the virus, really shows how much "linux" you know about, and the functioning of recovery mode, or in Windows they it could be akin to safe mode. Read a bit and you will see why none of what you said makes sense.

I have read much of the anti-task killer mumbo jumbo from android "experts". Being a software developer myself, I can tell you that how the developers intended it to work and how it actually works can be light years apart. I can say without a doubt that under 2.1, ATK significantly improved battery life no matter what the "experts" say. And why take away the option with Froyo? Android is supposed to be "open source". It's all about freedom....if you want to use a task killer you should have the option to do so. If the android "experts" are so omnipotent, then why is battery life so much worse after this so called "upgrade" to 2.2?

The only thing that kills battery life in Android is something using the cpu, cell radio, bluetooth, GPS, etc etc continuously. An app that people think is running in the background is not actually running. It's using uncached space in the system memory because android see a usage pattern with that app. If it didn't do this it would be a slower start-up then everyone would be complaining that their phones are slow.

The bottom line is you can't say that an app improves battery life on your phone when you have a malformed app that isn't running correctly with the system. That's what most of the "experts" call a bandaid fix. Next time your alarm doesn't work just download a different alarm app to fix it.....does that make sense to you? If you have an app that doesn't perform correctly with the android system it's not the systems fault and the only way to make sure that apps do work correctly is for the system to take control of the services running and do it's thing. IE Froyo.

In the end Auto Kill is the only thing that doesn't work, and ATK hasn't be written, at least the free one hasn't, to work with Froyo correctly. System panel still shuts services down, they don't start back up etc.......but yeah the "feature" has been removed..........

 

[jasonvancouver]

Wish we could get the Android 2.2 OS people to finally clear this up.

 

[liquidxit2]

That is why I love my epic. I have a task killer that comes with the phone that is very safe to use and very good at telling me which app is eating the most resources. Plus the widget is very nice too.

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