Is the LG G5 an audio downgrade compared to V10?

[irvine752]

It's not a downgrade if consider the full package for the G5. I have the V10, it's pretty decent, but it sounds pretty vanilla. I have owned a few iriver mp3 players + the Nokia N8 and with a good pair of sennheisers, I'm sorry to say, the V10 falls short. The missing audio codecs (Dolby Digital Plus & aptX HD) really make a difference....but guess what?....those are all included on the G5 plus you also get to play with the promising B&O module....come on people, what's not to like there?

 

[tx_tuff]

It's not a downgrade if consider the full package for the G5. I have the V10, it's pretty decent, but it sounds pretty vanilla. I have owned a few iriver mp3 players + the Nokia N8 and with a good pair of sennheisers, I'm sorry to say, the V10 falls short. The missing audio codecs (Dolby Digital Plus & aptX HD) really make a difference....but guess what?....those are all included on the G5 plus you also get to play with the promising B&O module....come on people, what's not to like there?

Come on man that's way to technical and makes too much sense. We don't need that kind of talk around here.

 

[irvine752]

Any word on the stock DAC & Amp for the G5?

 

[irvine752]

Come on man that's way to technical and makes too much sense. We don't need that kind of talk around here.

I'm deeply bothered by what the kids are learning from your hurtful sarcasm lol

 

[tx_tuff]

I'm deeply bothered by what the kids are learning from your hurtful sarcasm lol

Yeah I knew I should have added a

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

It's not a downgrade if consider the full package for the G5. I have the V10, it's pretty decent, but it sounds pretty vanilla. I have owned a few iriver mp3 players + the Nokia N8 and with a good pair of sennheisers, I'm sorry to say, the V10 falls short. The missing audio codecs (Dolby Digital Plus & aptX HD) really make a difference....but guess what?....those are all included on the G5 plus you also get to play with the promising B&O module....come on people, what's not to like there?

Dolby Digital + doesn't matter for music, and aptX HD is for Bluetooth.

For those complaining about listening to compressed music, just stop. Those of us that REALLY care about audio buy cd's and convert to FLAC or purchase FLAC digital copies up front. Me personally, I use mostly Spotify, but that has more to do with convenience and the fact that most music is just not mastered very well.

There are quite a few albums that I have purchased on CD or digital versions in FLAC specifically because they are well regarded albums when it comes to mastering. It also helps that a lot of those albums are from artists that I enjoy listening to anyway.


What we don't know is pricing. For the phone or the module. Those will be the deciding factor on whether the phone+module make sense over the V10 or something similar.

 

[irvine752]

Dolby Digital + doesn't matter for music, and aptX HD is for Bluetooth.

For those complaining about listening to compressed music, just stop. Those of us that REALLY care about audio buy cd's and convert to FLAC or purchase FLAC digital copies up front. Me personally, I use mostly Spotify, but that has more to do with convenience and the fact that most music is just not mastered very well.

There are quite a few albums that I have purchased on CD or digital versions in FLAC specifically because they are well regarded albums when it comes to mastering. It also helps that a lot of those albums are from artists that I enjoy listening to anyway.


What we don't know is pricing. For the phone or the module. Those will be the deciding factor on whether the phone+module make sense over the V10 or something similar.

Dolby Digital Plus is not just for movies, the codec was designed to cater to all sorts of audio outputs. If you have a good pair of headphones you can definitely notice the rich sound & depth the codec provides. It really gives you a new appreciation for all your songs. If you really want to try it out, check out the sound on the Kindle Fire line up, the HDX 8.9 comes with the latest Dolby Atmos.

The aptX-HD Bluetooth streaming codec is the cherry on the cake, I personally play podcasts & even music through the car stereo bluetooth (plus it improves the streaming quality for Bluetooth headphones).

I agree with playing FLAC files, but those are hard to come by especially for old songs. I personally carry around a collection of 5000+ songs & some of those are loseless. I can't imagine getting all those in a lossless format & having to deal to with massive storage requirement that comes along with that.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Dolby Digital Plus is not just for movies, the codec was designed to cater to all sorts of audio outputs. If you have a good pair of headphones you can definitely notice the rich sound & depth the codec provides. It really gives you a new appreciation for all your songs. If you really want to try it out, check out the sound on the Kindle Fire line up, the HDX 8.9 comes with the latest Dolby Atmos.

The aptX-HD Bluetooth streaming codec is the cherry on the cake, I personally play podcasts & even music through the car stereo bluetooth (plus it improves the streaming quality for Bluetooth headphones).

I agree with playing FLAC files, but those are hard to come by especially for old songs. I personally carry around a collection of 5000+ songs & some of those are loseless. I can't imagine getting all those in a lossless format & having to deal to with massive storage requirement that comes along with that.

I think you have a misunderstanding of what DD+ is. It's a higher bitrate 5.1/7.1 codec. It is not a stereo codec, and if you think it improves stereo sound that's incorrect.

AptX-HD only improves Bluetooth sound when paired with another device that also supports aptx-HD. Just like with the original aptX. Both devices must support that for it to have any affect at all.

I do agree that finding older songs in FLAC can be difficult, but if you can find them on CD you can convert them yourself.

 

[irvine752]

I think you have a misunderstanding of what DD+ is. It's a higher bitrate 5.1/7.1 codec. It is not a stereo codec, and if you think it improves stereo sound that's incorrect.

AptX-HD only improves Bluetooth sound when paired with another device that also supports aptx-HD. Just like with the original aptX. Both devices must support that for it to have any affect at all.

I do agree that finding older songs in FLAC can be difficult, but if you can find them on CD you can convert them yourself.

I think the biggest problem with DD+ is adoption. Most people tend to believe the codec is only geared for 5.1/7.1 cinema audio. The idea behind the concept is to allow for virtual surround using the integrated technologies present in the stream (and yes that includes Stereo 2.0 Audio). Also, DD+ can be passed through a mobile stero device to an AV receiver for true 5.1 surround even if the mobile device itself cannot support multi-channel playback. This embedded technology is one way in which this surround format has the capability to enrich streaming media well beyond the typical restraints of stereo audio channels. In short, it simply enhances audio to high-fidelity audio without the high bandwidth requirements of some of the lossless formats such as FLAC.

There's a very good reason why we have XDA communites out there rooting their android devices just so to port over the codec from other android devices that come standard with the codec. I'm pretty sure those folks are not going through all that trouble just so to find out that the codec doesn't improve their stereo quality.

The AptX-HD codec does indeed require both the transmitter & receiver to have the codec installed, but that shouldn't be a reason for anyone to shy away. It's just a matter of time before a couple of high-end Bluetooth Headphones start carrying the codec. The update might be a little slower for car audio, but then again that's to be expected. Maybe if we get lucky, we might get the codec on a couple new cars like the Q60 that carries the all the new Bose Performance Series. The whole discussion about Sound Quality is entirely somewhat subjective, I have a buddy who swears behind the Burmester on his Macan, and I presonally don't agree with him. It's not a big deal, it's just a preference. We even have folks out there who would swear behind Viper 4 android, and again that's not for me, the sound doesn't seem natural, and there's a lot of tweaking involved. Before going through all that trouble, why not simply rely on a certifed industry standard for audio that's trusted by many such as DD+?

As for my lovely music collection, it's all an asortment of 128-320 kbps mp3s, and a few FLACs. Like most peple, I stopped carrying CDs a while ago, and it's too late to go back. FLACs are great, but most of us still have to deal with old mp3s hence the need for DD+.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

I think the biggest problem with DD+ is adoption. Most people tend to believe the codec is only geared for 5.1/7.1 cinema audio. The idea behind the concept is to allow for virtual surround using the integrated technologies present in the stream (and yes that includes Stereo 2.0 Audio). Also, DD+ can be passed through a mobile stero device to an AV receiver for true 5.1 surround even if the mobile device itself cannot support multi-channel playback. This embedded technology is one way in which this surround format has the capability to enrich streaming media well beyond the typical restraints of stereo audio channels. In short, it simply enhances audio to high-fidelity audio without the high bandwidth requirements of some of the lossless formats such as FLAC.

There's a very good reason why we have XDA communites out there rooting their android devices just so to port over the codec from other android devices that come standard with the codec. I'm pretty sure those folks are not going through all that trouble just so to find out that the codec doesn't improve their stereo quality.

The AptX-HD codec does indeed require both the transmitter & receiver to have the codec installed, but that shouldn't be a reason for anyone to shy away. It's just a matter of time before a couple of high-end Bluetooth Headphones start carrying the codec. The update might be a little slower for car audio, but then again that's to be expected. Maybe if we get lucky, we might get the codec on a couple new cars like the Q60 that carries the all the new Bose Performance Series. The whole discussion about Sound Quality is entirely somewhat subjective, I have a buddy who swears behind the Burmester on his Macan, and I presonally don't agree with him. It's not a big deal, it's just a preference. We even have folks out there who would swear behind Viper 4 android, and again that's not for me, the sound doesn't seem natural, and there's a lot of tweaking involved. Before going through all that trouble, why not simply rely on a certifed industry standard for audio that's trusted by many such as DD+?

As for my lovely music collection, it's all an asortment of 128-320 kbps mp3s, and a few FLACs. Like most peple, I stopped carrying CDs a while ago, and it's too late to go back. FLACs are great, but most of us still have to deal with old mp3s hence the need for DD+.

No no no. You can't "enhance" something to make it lossless. It's either lossless (FLAC, WAV, or ALAC, with some other lesser used formats) or it's not. No amount of processing will make up for that.

As you can see in the link below, DD+ is a 5.1/7.1 format, with support for stereo downmixing. That means that if your device can only do stereo sound (like phones and tablets) those formats will downmix to that so that you don't lose any of the center channel audio. DD+ does NOT upmix stereo sound and make it surround sound, nor does it provide any enhancement to stereo sound (there are other technologies for that).

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-digital-plus.html

 

[irvine752]

No no no. You can't "enhance" something to make it lossless. It's either lossless (FLAC, WAV, or ALAC, with some other lesser used formats) or it's not. No amount of processing will make up for that.

As you can see in the link below, DD+ is a 5.1/7.1 format, with support for stereo downmixing. That means that if your device can only do stereo sound (like phones and tablets) those formats will downmix to that so that you don't lose any of the center channel audio. DD+ does NOT upmix stereo sound and make it surround sound, nor does it provide any enhancement to stereo sound (there are other technologies for that).

I neved said the codec enhances audio to make it lossless. That would be breaking the basic tenets of the Nyquist Theorem. It certainly sounds near perfection, but it's not perfect. I think you missed the key word there which was "virtual". I would google up a reference that acutally explains how the algorithm works. Pulling up the main page that doesn't explain how the codec deals with 2.0 stereo sound doesn't help your argument. There's much more to the codec besides the 5.1/7.1 format. I can't post any links since I only have a few posts under this profile. Do you really think LG included the codec on the device just so we can stream the limited services that offer 5.1 or 7.1 sound?

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

I neved said the codec enhances audio to make it lossless. That would be breaking the basic tenets of the Nyquist Theorem. It certainly sounds near perfection, but it's not perfect. I think you missed the key word there which was "virtual". I would google up a reference that acutally explains how the algorithm works. Pulling up the main page that doesn't explain how the codec deals with 2.0 stereo sound doesn't help your argument. There's much more to the codec besides the 5.1/7.1 format. I can't post any links since I only have a few posts under this profile. Do you really think LG included the codec on the device just so we can stream the limited services that offer 5.1 or 7.1 sound?

Perhaps they plan on supporting USB-C to HDMI adapters. If that's the case then supporting DD and DD+ streaming makes a lot of sense. But, the fact that they are advertising support implies that they can also do on device decode of those signals instead of simple pass-through. Off the top of my head I can't think of many scenarios where having on device Dolby decode capability on a phone is desirable.

Yeah, I think I misread what you were saying about matrixing stereo tracks into "fake" 5.1 audio as trying to mimic lossless. I think you might be thinking of Dolby Pro Logic or DTS NEO processing, which takes a stereo track and simulates surround sound by "creating" the extra surround channels.

 

[irvine752]

Perhaps they plan on supporting USB-C to HDMI adapters. If that's the case then supporting DD and DD+ streaming makes a lot of sense. But, the fact that they are advertising support implies that they can also do on device decode of those signals instead of simple pass-through. Off the top of my head I can't think of many scenarios where having on device Dolby decode capability on a phone is desirable.

Yeah, I think I misread what you were saying about matrixing stereo tracks into "fake" 5.1 audio as trying to mimic lossless. I think you might be thinking of Dolby Pro Logic or DTS NEO processing, which takes a stereo track and simulates surround sound by "creating" the extra surround channels.

Nicely done. That's a much better come back than the one you had before. You're still missing the point though. While Dolby Pro Logic or even DTS NEO can simulate surround sound from a 2 channel source, once again those are only geared up for a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup. They don't create the same effect for stereo headphones. For instance, 2 channel audio uploads to Youtube are up-converted to 5.1 surround using Dolby Pro Logic II, yes it's decent (if you try it with Youtube Red), but no where near the enhancement you would get from DD+ when you play the clip back on stereo headphones. Dolby Pro Logic II on stereo headphones sounds a little on the mushy clouded side, and the dynamics are a little off too.
DD+ is more along the lines of Viper4 Android, but with a more natural immersive sound. You can call it fake all you want, but there's a good reason why it gets a lot of respect from audiophiles. Check out the threads on the XDA developers forum, there's plenty of folks dying to get the codec on their devices, and guess what? They'd be happy to hear this codec comes standard on the G5.

Some of the Technical Features of Dolby Digital Plus (from AudioGurus.com):

1.0 to 7.1 channels of surround sound
5.1-channel interactive experience for Blu-ray BonusView and BD-Live
7.1-channel support for primary Blu-ray soundtracks
Backwards-compatibility with Dolby Digital
Dialogue Enhancer
Surround Virtualizer creates a surround sound experience through headphones or built-in speakers
Volume Leveler for eliminating volume jumps across platforms
Dolby Digital pass-through allows multichannel audio from mobile devices (even if they don’t support surround)
20-bit/48kHz sample rate
Data (Blu-ray): 768kbps-1.5 Mbps
Data (legacy): 640kbps Dolby Digital
Data (streaming/broadcast): 256kbps

I do like the idea of a USB-C to HDMI adapter, but with new Chromecast that now supports 4K it wouldn't really be beneficial down the road. Almost all the top rated developer apps now support the casting feature, there is no point of dangling an HDMI cable behind a TV. On device decoding might be enticing, but that's not going to draw the massive crowds away from casting or even using built-in TV apps which can provide the same Dolby quality sound with the right equipment.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Nicely done. That's a much better come back than the one you had before. You're still missing the point though. While Dolby Pro Logic or even DTS NEO can simulate surround sound from a 2 channel source, once again those are only geared up for a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup. They don't create the same effect for stereo headphones. For instance, 2 channel audio uploads to Youtube are up-converted to 5.1 surround using Dolby Pro Logic II, yes it's decent (if you try it with Youtube Red), but no where near the enhancement you would get from DD+ when you play the clip back on stereo headphones. Dolby Pro Logic II on stereo headphones sounds a little on the mushy clouded side, and the dynamics are a little off too.
DD+ is more along the lines of Viper4 Android, but with a more natural immersive sound. You can call it fake all you want, but there's a good reason why it gets a lot of respect from audiophiles. Check out the threads on the XDA developers forum, there's plenty of folks dying to get the codec on their devices, and guess what? They'd be happy to hear this codec comes standard on the G5.

Some of the Technical Features of Dolby Digital Plus (from AudioGurus.com):

1.0 to 7.1 channels of surround sound
5.1-channel interactive experience for Blu-ray BonusView and BD-Live
7.1-channel support for primary Blu-ray soundtracks
Backwards-compatibility with Dolby Digital
Dialogue Enhancer
Surround Virtualizer creates a surround sound experience through headphones or built-in speakers
Volume Leveler for eliminating volume jumps across platforms
Dolby Digital pass-through allows multichannel audio from mobile devices (even if they don’t support surround)
20-bit/48kHz sample rate
Data (Blu-ray): 768kbps-1.5 Mbps
Data (legacy): 640kbps Dolby Digital
Data (streaming/broadcast): 256kbps

I do like the idea of a USB-C to HDMI adapter, but with new Chromecast that now supports 4K it wouldn't really be beneficial down the road. Almost all the top rated developer apps now support the casting feature, there is no point of dangling an HDMI cable behind a TV. On device decoding might be enticing, but that's not going to draw the massive crowds away from casting or even using built-in TV apps which can provide the same Dolby quality sound with the right equipment.

I will address the highlighted areas.

1. Who are these audiophiles that like their audio over processed and artificial sounding?
2. I see now. It can do surround simulation. Going along with the audiophile comment, no audiophile wants their stereo sound corrupted with over processing that will screw up the imaging and dynamics of the content.
3. The new Chromecast does not support 4K. It does up to 1080p.

Your claim that audiophiles prefer their content to be processed at all is simply incorrect, but you can continue to think if you would like. I'm sure there are tons of folks that are not audiophiles that do prefer to have an over processed sound to their content, or do have artificial effects applied to their music, so their is a place for these types of effects. It's just not with audiophiles.

If you want to know something that audiophiles generally wanted on their devices, that was Voodoo sound. No crazy effects, no boosting, no virtualizing channels, just pure clean sound.

 

[irvine752]

I will address the highlighted areas.

1. Who are these audiophiles that like their audio over processed and artificial sounding?
2. I see now. It can do surround simulation. Going along with the audiophile comment, no audiophile wants their stereo sound corrupted with over processing that will screw up the imaging and dynamics of the content.
3. The new Chromecast does not support 4K. It does up to 1080p.

Your claim that audiophiles prefer their content to be processed at all is simply incorrect, but you can continue to think if you would like. I'm sure there are tons of folks that are not audiophiles that do prefer to have an over processed sound to their content, or do have artificial effects applied to their music, so their is a place for these types of effects. It's just not with audiophiles.

If you want to know something that audiophiles generally wanted on their devices, that was Voodoo sound. No crazy effects, no boosting, no virtualizing channels, just pure clean sound.

An audiophile is really anyone who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction of all forms. Sure, we have some audiophiles that prefer clean vanilla sound, but that's entirely subjective. The whole reason we went back & forth with this discussion was purely based on your lack of appreciation for DD+, and guess what? That's totally fine, there's still people out there just as confused. I hope anyone reading this can learn something.

The XDA forums are the largest Android forums in the world, they have developers that make mobile phones better. Apps, games, ROMs, development discussion, and more. Stop complaining, and join the experts. That includes you too Laura lol

Calling out Dolby for audio corruption doesn't help your argument. They have been in the business of perfecting these codecs for quite some time (since 1965), and not to mention they're highly respected around the world. If you saw Star Wars recently, that was mastered with the award-winning Dolby Atmos.

The Chromecast does indeed support 4K streaming, but there's a caveat though, you have to do bit of tweaking since H.264 video decoding is still limited to 1080p at 30 frames per second. There's ways of getting around the limits, but then again that's not the point. I could have easily mentioned the shield from Nvidia or even TV apps that are ready for 4K streaming.

 

[Aquila]

I neved said the codec enhances audio to make it lossless. That would be breaking the basic tenets of the Nyquist Theorem. It certainly sounds near perfection, but it's not perfect. I think you missed the key word there which was "virtual". I would google up a reference that acutally explains how the algorithm works. Pulling up the main page that doesn't explain how the codec deals with 2.0 stereo sound doesn't help your argument. There's much more to the codec besides the 5.1/7.1 format. I can't post any links since I only have a few posts under this profile. Do you really think LG included the codec on the device just so we can stream the limited services that offer 5.1 or 7.1 sound?

What do you mean by "under this profile"?

 

[irvine752]

What do you mean by "under this profile"?

I believe I have to be over a certain number of posts (10) to post anything with links.

 

[D4vi374]

The dac is tuned by B&O so although the V10 has 32 bit DAC the LG G5 will have an audiophile quality and the included B&O headphones should sound great.

 

[D4vi374]

Please forgive my predictive text