Let's Talk about 9.0 Pie On Pixel 3

Exactly, not sure why this is difficult for people to respect and move on...theres no hidden agenda, no one is saying Google's gestures are the best, they are sufficient for me. Its not about being a "Fanboy" but maybe just things 'clicking' for one person and not another.

It's just a phone....it's nice that everyone has opinions but I hate when it gets personal. If you talk about how you're happy with it or not experiencing problems you get accused of many different things. I won't get into which ones because will be bound to think I'm implicating specific people. I have no desire to do that. People have a right to state their case but they should understand that not everyone has to agree.
I like my phone....I like the way it performs and I don't care if it's a good value or not. I could afford any phone out there. I don't know other people's choices but I will state why something doesn't work for me.

The Pixel is the date I brought to the dance and I'm dancing with her.
 
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I think many of these gripes decrease the cohesiveness of using the OS. Sure the current system "works" in that it lets you switch between apps, but is it consistent with their design philosophy? Apple delivered an awesome presentation on their justification for their gesture system, along with their research findings and approach to how they built their system (here). I think many had hoped Google would do something equally as well thought out, as an indication of the direction they were taking Android and evidence this wasn't just a "me too" feature.

I agree with you 100%. It's as if Google focused completely on the camera and forgot about everything else that a phone should be. The OS should be an invisible, intuitive, and seamless way to access the features and services provided by the apps. The finicky gestures and technical issues in the OS constantly distract from the user experience.

The biggest thing I've gained from owning the pixel 3 is an appreciation of iOS.
 
It's just a phone....it's nice that everyone has opinions but I hate when it gets personal. If you talk about how you're happy with it or not experiencing problems you get accused of many different things. I won't get into which ones because will be bound to think I'm implicating specific people. I have no desire to do that and they know who they are. People have a right to state their case but they should understand that not everyone has to agree.
I like my phone....I like the way it performs and I don't care if it's a good value or not. I could afford any phone out there. I don't know other people's choices but I will state why something doesn't work for me.

The Pixel is the date I brought to the dance and I'm dancing with her.

I want to know 2 things Mike, does your wife know about Pixel ? How long you been seeing pixel? 😂😂
If you dancing it better be to "Footloose" everybody get loose 👍😂😂
 
Hey, that's completely fair and anyone hating on Google gestures has a full right to dislike and call out things, including comparing it to what are considered by many as better.

But if I go ahead and say Android 9 gestures are good for me, I'm happy with the experience...is it fair to be called a fanboy or "doesn't know better"? I'm far from a Google fanboy, I used X quite a bit and ya they're awesome. Pixel has been a fantastic experience to me, I was very skeptical on the gestures but think they're great.

Moving from Android to iPhone 2 years ago made me truly appreciate iOS. I think Apple do a great job with that OS, aside from throttling (lol), I would have went with an XS but wanted to try something else...happy I did. I'm looking forward to most likely going back in 2 years when I renew again.
I agree with you 100%. It's as if Google focused completely on the camera and forgot about everything else that a phone should be. The OS should be an invisible, intuitive, and seamless way to access the features and services provided by the apps. The finicky gestures and technical issues in the OS constantly distract from the user experience.

The biggest thing I've gained from owning the pixel 3 is an appreciation of iOS.
 
Hey, that's completely fair and anyone hating on Google gestures has a full right to dislike and call out things, including comparing it to what are considered by many as better.

But if I go ahead and say Android 9 gestures are good for me, I'm happy with the experience...is it fair to be called a fanboy or "doesn't know better"? I'm far from a Google fanboy, I used X quite a bit and ya they're awesome. Pixel has been a fantastic experience to me, I was very skeptical on the gestures but think they're great.

Moving from Android to iPhone 2 years ago made me truly appreciate iOS. I think Apple do a great job with that OS, aside from throttling (lol), I would have went with an XS but wanted to try something else...happy I did. I'm looking forward to most likely going back in 2 years when I renew again.

Buy what you like...like what you buy.
 
Hey, that's completely fair and anyone hating on Google gestures has a full right to dislike and call out things, including comparing it to what are considered by many as better.

But if I go ahead and say Android 9 gestures are good for me, I'm happy with the experience...is it fair to be called a fanboy or "doesn't know better"? I'm far from a Google fanboy, I used X quite a bit and ya they're awesome. Pixel has been a fantastic experience to me, I was very skeptical on the gestures but think they're great.

Who are you calling out here because I certainly didn't say this and you're quoting my post as if in response to something I said.

Furthermore, I am not hating on Google, I love google and my apartment is decked out with every Google smart home device. It would be fair to call me a google fanboy, and this is in part why I'm so disappointed with the Pixel...I know they're capable of better...it just feels like they dumped all of their resources into fine tuning the camera software rather than the OS.
 
Wasn't calling you out (should have mentioned that), just referenced your post to give my prospective. I just see some posts from people that imply Android pixel gestures are bad and that's it...no way around it.
Who are you calling out here because I certainly didn't say this and you're quoting my post as if I'm the one called you a fanboy who doesn't know better.

Furthermore, I am NOT hating on Google, I LOVE google and my apartment is decked out with every Google smarthome device. It would be fair to call me a google fanboy, and this is in part why I'm so disappointed with the Pixel...I know they're capable of better...it just feels like they dumped all of their resources into fine tuning the camera software rather than the OS.
 
Google has a ton of user feedback to help guide their directions and what they want to accomplish. They've design Android from the beginning and have the path that they want to take. Android Pie is indeed exactly as they intend it to be on the Pixel and it works wonderfully.

People want to quote articles, but none of them are coming from the actually design team and their thinking which are (here) and (here)

It's okay to want something to be one way, but when it's not that way then what? I say find what works for you. If that's Samsung Experience, then go get that. If that's iOS and their Fisher Price version of computing, then go get that. All and all, even if you disagree with the direction, Google knows better than any of us what's best for Android and for the Pixel.
 
My response directly responds to some of the UX comments made in the articles you referenced. Part of my gripe is the absolute disconnect between the gestures as they are and the rationale provided for the change. I didn't directly quote the article but am happy to make a more directed response to it if people wanted.

An example of this disconnect is:
> "The goal of the transitions you see in Pie is to give the user a logical trail to follow so you don't get lost — you'll notice that the animations emanate from the place you tapped, and show the new windows coming and going from a deliberate location to let your eye follow the process."

Yet when we look at my landscape gesture example, there's such a complete disconnect between how the user begins to engage with the gestures when transitioning to the multitasking view, from what they must do to get back to the app.

> "okay I tapped on this and then this object grew and became this full-screen app' ... it always helps users get a sense of what's happening and where the system is taking them"

But consider the pill. It doesn't move or provide any purpose as they describe. It's completely static. Or take an app in landscape. Or consider going into multitasking mode with the assistant window open -- it just fades out into nothing! I believe there's a philosophy which hasn't been translated into implementation.

There's a bunch of additional quotes about consistency and providing experiences users expect, but this is counter to what they provided with their predictive apps which they're relying on to reduce the dependence on the homescreen (in what feels like a move to deprecate it). If the apps can change so drastically in the space of two swipes into multitasking mode, how does that offer a more predictive, expected experience? Certainly it's something that frustrates me. Occasionally it's right, but if you use more than 5 apps frequently, it will have a frustrating rate of failure.
 
Ya know @Iuke , while I might find your thinking flawed, I definitely respect your opinion. I look at all these tech reviews and opinions much like I do movie reviews and opinions. Once a movie is made and in theaters, everyone has an opinion of who should've played what characters and how the story should've been told. Some people will watch and enjoy the movie, others will not. That's okay to me.

Android is like that, to me. Every year, a new addition to the series every year. This year, they've taken Android in a new direction. Some people will like this installment, as I do, other people will not. Regardless of our opinions, however, Google knows where they want to go with things and have plenty of data to support that.

As an example, YOU say

If the apps can change so drastically in the space of two swipes into multitasking mode, how does that offer a more predictive, expected experience? Certainly it's something that frustrates me. Occasionally it's right, but if you use more than 5 apps frequently, it will have a frustrating rate of failure.

But the article clearly reads

"As for the app drawer essentially being a two-staged release that first shows a row of suggested apps followed by the rest of the apps, EK says it was a very deliberate choice based on user feedback. The numbers showed that 60% of the time when people swiped up from the bottom to display the app drawer, they took one of the suggested apps at the top."

Now considering you're using the data set of 1 person (yourself), and Google is using a data set, let's just say much larger than that, you'll have to forgive me for considering their opinion of what's the proper approach the more "legitimate" one.
 
It's just a phone....it's nice that everyone has opinions but I hate when it gets personal. If you talk about how you're happy with it or not experiencing problems you get accused of many different things. I won't get into which ones because will be bound to think I'm implicating specific people. I have no desire to do that. People have a right to state their case but they should understand that not everyone has to agree.
I like my phone....I like the way it performs and I don't care if it's a good value or not. I could afford any phone out there. I don't know other people's choices but I will state why something doesn't work for me.

The Pixel is the date I brought to the dance and I'm dancing with her.

Exactly. Well said.
 
Regardless of our opinions, however, Google knows where they want to go with things and have plenty of data to support that.
Sounds like your mind is made up to accept whatever google hands you as the best version of the product regardless of how it performs in actual daily use. Your thinking is flawed because it improves that Android pie will never change or be improved from it's current form and I highly doubt that it won't change. Furthermore, it'd be hard for google to make improvements "based on feedback" if people don't continue to provide it. I belive google tracks every click we make on android (could be wrong about this) to see how users use their software, but providing feedback through text and discussing experiences with other pixel users can be helpful.

It's odd how threads created to troubleshoot issues are overflowed with claims that the issues don't exist (issues that google has now acknowledged do exist) and threads created to discuss the implementation of brand new software features claim that everything is perfect because google knows best. It's kind of hilarious...the Pixel community needs a reality check.
 
It's odd how threads created to troubleshoot issues are overflowed with claims that the issues don't exist (issues that google has now acknowledged do exist) and threads created to discuss the implementation of brand new software features claim that everything is perfect because google knows best. It's kind of hilarious...the Pixel community needs a reality check.

No one said problems dont exist, some just arent experiencing them. I havent seen anyone say everything Google does is perfect, he only said Google know where they want to take Android and have user data. This response sort of comes off how you and others, who dont like Pie gestures, know whats best for everyone and "oixel" community (aka People who like their Pixel 3?) are wrong? Gullible? Fanboys? Not sure how to respond.

Could 9 gestures be more fluid? Sure. Is there room for improvement? Of course, there always is. Can people appreciate what they have, enjoy it and speak openly how its a blast to use? I'd hope so.
 
Sounds like your mind is made up to accept whatever google hands you as the best version of the product regardless of how it performs in actual daily use. Your thinking is flawed because it improves that Android pie will never change or be improved from it's current form and I highly doubt that it won't change. Furthermore, it'd be hard for google to make improvements "based on feedback" if people don't continue to provide it. I belive google tracks every click we make on android (could be wrong about this) to see how users use their software, but providing feedback through text and discussing experiences with other pixel users can be helpful.

It's odd how threads created to troubleshoot issues are overflowed with claims that the issues don't exist (issues that google has now acknowledged do exist) and threads created to discuss the implementation of brand new software features claim that everything is perfect because google knows best. It's kind of hilarious...the Pixel community needs a reality check.

Or.. maybe.. just maybe .. he doesn't share your opinion on it being flawed. Sure it may have issues -- I don't think anyone is disagreeing on issues existing (hence them bringing them up and Google acknowledging fixes are coming) -- but it does't mean to him the Pixel 3 isn't the best Google has. It varies from each persons perspective.

I personally am using an iPhone XS Max right now instead of a Pixel 3 simply because I wanted a good watch (Series 4 Apple Watch). That said if i didn't want a watch I would without a doubt have a Pixel 3 XL and be using it daily. The faults I have seen would be annoying -- no doubt -- but I know Google would fix it. Just like when the iPhone XS Max wouldn't charge properly and the pitchforks came out in droves... then Apple fixed it ... and now everyone is back to normal.

So calm down on insulting people simply because they don't agree with you. We get it -- you're pissed off. Good be pissed off.. but don't go try and **** on people's opinions and say they need "reality checks" and they are "flawed" simply because they don't think like you. That isn't constructive at all. Especially here you are taking the quote from DMP talking about the app drawer & changes (not issues) and acting as if he was saying that to the RAM issue or something -- he wasn't.
 
So calm down on insulting people simply because they don't agree with you. We get it -- you're pissed off. Good be pissed off.. but don't go try and **** on people's opinions and say they need "reality checks" and they are "flawed" simply because they don't think like you. That isn't constructive at all. Especially here you are taking the quote from DMP talking about the app drawer & changes (not issues) and acting as if he was saying that to the RAM issue or something -- he wasn't.
I'm insulting no one, please point out where I did. The point of my post is that what was said below was insulting by insisting that this guy's opinion doesn't matter. People who are saying they like the phone or OS aren't just saying that....they're insisting that people who are giving (negative) feedback or who are having less than stellar experiences with the Pixel need to be quiet. and that just by expressing negative feedback, they/we are being oppressive because it's "triggering" everyone into buyer's remorse. This is a textbook version of "safe space".

Conversations in the Pixel forums like this have been repeated over and over:

Person A: I'm having a hardware/software issue.
Person B: I'm not so your opinion isn't valid.
Me: But I and person A are having an issue, and we should be free to discuss.
Mod: How dare you say that. Stop oppressing on Person B's satisfaction with the Pixel.

Please explain to me how the below isn't insulting to a person's opinion?
Ya know luke Now considering you're using the data set of 1 person (yourself), and Google is using a data set, let's just say much larger than that, you'll have to forgive me for considering their opinion of what's the proper approach the more "legitimate" one.
 
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I'm insulting no one, please point out where I did. The point of my post is that what was said below was insulting by insisting that this guy's opinion doesn't matter. People who are saying they like the phone or OS aren't just saying that....they're insisting that people who are giving (negative) feedback need to be quiet.

Conversations have gone like this.

Person A: I'm having a hardware/software issue.
Person B: I'm not so your opinion isn't valid.
Me: But I and person A are having an issue, and we should be free to discuss.
Person B: How dare you say that. Stop oppressing on Person B's satisfaction with the Pixel.

Please explain to me how the below isn't insulting to a person's opinion?

Easy.. telling people they need a reality check because their view is "flawed" as if they can't make up their own mind.

If you want to discuss this more you can PM me as I'm not going to have a full discussion here. Keep the subject to the topic and not the people.
 
Could 9 gestures be more fluid? Sure. Is there room for improvement? Of course, there always is. Can people appreciate what they have, enjoy it and speak openly how its a blast to use? I'd hope so.

I agree they def. could be. On my Pixel 2 XL while they worked I still see the iOS gestures as better. Much smooth transitions on what I do on the phone.
 
Ya know @Iuke , while I might find your thinking flawed, I definitely respect your opinion. I look at all these tech reviews and opinions much like I do movie reviews and opinions. Once a movie is made and in theaters, everyone has an opinion of who should've played what characters and how the story should've been told. Some people will watch and enjoy the movie, others will not. That's okay to me.

Hey thanks for the reply!

Android is like that, to me. Every year, a new addition to the series every year. This year, they've taken Android in a new direction. Some people will like this installment, as I do, other people will not. Regardless of our opinions, however, Google knows where they want to go with things and have plenty of data to support that.

This isn't a competition, and I don't think it adds much to the conversation to be honest. You like Android, I like Android, we all like Android ;) I've described my history with Google's devices and contribute to the Android issue tracker. There aren't two classes of users and opinions here based on who likes Android more.

As an example, YOU say
But the article clearly reads

"As for the app drawer essentially being a two-staged release that first shows a row of suggested apps followed by the rest of the apps, EK says it was a very deliberate choice based on user feedback. The numbers showed that 60% of the time when people swiped up from the bottom to display the app drawer, they took one of the suggested apps at the top."

Now considering you're using the data set of 1 person (yourself), and Google is using a data set, let's just say much larger than that, you'll have to forgive me for considering their opinion of what's the proper approach the more "legitimate" one.

That's a fair and reasonable respond to user research (which I'm glad you've brought up). But lets look at it in the context I talked about it in: introducing this feature at the cost of the homescreen. Look at the quotes in the article you mentioned:

It actually signals a reduction in the importance of the canonical home screen, shifting to an interface that focuses on streamlining the process of switching between apps and tasks...
EK's goal for the design was very clear: "When we look at the whole operating system, being able to switch between multiple tasks or apps is the fundamental function." Following the "simplicity" mission, it was important to change the home screen experience to better focus on getting people between apps and tasks rather than sending people back to a home screen over and over again.

I'm not disputing their findings, but I am saying 60% efficacy is less good than 100%, which is what happens when the user uses the homescreen. I don't think this feature is harmful (it's 60% good!), but I do think if it signals the removal or deprecation of the homescreen, that would be disappointing. The nature of the homescreen is that it is what the user wants it to be.

But while we're quoting from the article, as a software engineer familiar with user research, let's look at their approach:

he company conducted a longitudinal study with all sorts of "normal" consumers, giving them Pixels running Android 9 to test the new gesture system. After a brief teaching session, they were left to use the phones and the provide their feedback when they returned them.

The article obviously isn't an authority and we don't have access to detail about their approach -- but this isn't how you conduct user research to test a hypothesis. You instantly pollute your findings the second you start the research session with training! Part of what's interesting about these systems is watching how discoverable they are, or intuitive without explanation. Using this kind of session as justification for "how easy people got it" is funny because it doesn't actually tell us anything.

My issue with the article wasn't what was said for the most part, but it was the disconnect between what was said and what was delivered.

The goal of the transitions you see in Pie is to give the user a logical trail to follow so you don't get lost — you'll notice that the animations emanate from the place you tapped, and show the new windows coming and going from a deliberate location to let your eye follow the process. "This is a very subtle thing, but really helps users orient themselves — 'okay I tapped on this and then this object grew and became this full-screen app' ... it always helps users get a sense of what's happening and where the system is taking them."

Which again is at odds with the various points I made about the gesture system, the pill, landscape mode (where accessing the app drawer cannot be done in one fluid motion) etc.

I don't think you have a flawed opinion (despite your jab). I think you're content with what you've purchased, and that's okay! You're allowed to be happy with your purchase, or dance with your phone, or whatever other metaphor people choose to use to describe how they feel. I'm happy with my purchase too! And I'm happy with Android. Everything has flaws, and Android isn't immune from that. It's made by people, who make decisions with the data that's available to them at the time.

But I want it to be better, and think the product improves with more thoughts and ideas, not less. You say it yourself: a dataset of more than just one is more useful to Google, and these forums are great for contributing to that. I've attempted to provide solid examples of where I find the experience undercooked or inconsistent, not to pick holes in things that people like, but because I think the experience is undercooked. You don't have to find these annoying, but that doesn't take away from the fact they exist. People complain when Google's apps don't follow material design principles -- personally I just want to see their OS adopt it more aggressively, because it's well thought out and consistent.

Let's hope the next iteration adopts gesture properly. As it stands, it's only gestures-for-recents.
 
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This isn't a competition, and I don't think it adds much to the conversation to be honest. You like Android, I like Android, we all like Android I've described my history with Google's devices and contribute to the Android issue tracker. There aren't two classes of users and opinions here based on who likes Android more.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. This is a forum and multiple users are debating a topic and sharing opinions... nothing more. Nothing personal in here. Just random people in a tech forum.


I'm not disputing their findings, but I am saying 60% efficacy is less good than 100%, which is what happens when the user uses the homescreen. I don't think this feature is harmful (it's 60% good!), but I do think if it signals the removal or deprecation of the homescreen, that would be disappointing. The nature of the homescreen is that it is what the user wants it to be.

Not sure what you're saying here either, as it seems you're convoluting to me. One references the use of predictive apps and why they shifted up to the recent apps screen. A utilitarian decision, for sure.

The second point is already referenced in the article that, yes, moving between apps without having to always go back home is the goal. "EK's goal for the design was very clear: "When we look at the whole operating system, being able to switch between multiple tasks or apps is the fundamental function." Following the "simplicity" mission, it was important to change the home screen experience to better focus on getting people between apps and tasks rather than sending people back to a home screen over and over again."

I personally have no problems with that and would actually prefer it. Always going to the home screen is like me being in my bedroom wanting to go to the kitachen, but I have to walk to the front door of my house everythime I want to do so.

The article obviously isn't an authority and we don't have access to detail about their approach -- but this isn't how you conduct user research to test a hypothesis. You instantly pollute your findings the second you start the research session with training! Part of what's interesting about these systems is watching how discoverable they are, or intuitive without explanation. Using this kind of session as justification for "how easy people got it" is funny because it doesn't actually tell us anything.

My friend, for me, this is where I think you're stating your opinion as fact. The truth is, as you say, "we don't have access to detail about their approach" so we (which includes you too) don't know their controls or desired outcome or goals with their testing. Considering all their computational work though, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know how to run testing.

As for the article being an authority, I think it's a point of reference that provides insight from an actual authority. If you have access to a better source or authority, perhaps another voice from the design team on Android Pie, I'd be pleased to read that too.


But I want it to be better, and think the product improves with more thoughts and ideas, not less. You say it yourself: a dataset of more than just one is more useful to Google, and these forums are great for contributing to that. I've attempted to provide solid examples of where I find the experience undercooked or inconsistent, not to pick holes in things that people like, but because I think the experience is undercooked.

That's great! I sincerely hope you have shared this wonderful feedback directly with Google, as well. I do pretty much on a regular basis. If you haven't shared this with them yet, I'll get things started for you.

https://www.google.com/tools/feedback/intl/en/

Also, if you haven't signed up of the Google User Research program, there's a great link right here at Android Central Forums. In case you haven't come across it yet, it's here:

https://forums.androidcentral.com/google-user-research/

It's a great program and many of us in the forum participate. Personally, I did two this past spring and a direct result from that very testing I participated in made it's way into Android P for the Pixel. So exciting to see Google take their research, feedback and testing from the field seriously.

Lastly, to be clear, we're just discussing a topic. Please don't take anything personally, as I don't know you and have no intention to offend. I respect your right to an opinion. Cheers!
 
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