LG Nexus 4 Experiencing Cracking Problems Due to Glass Backing

[andr0idralphie]

...if I had a quarter for every iPhone/iPod screen that I've seen while riding trains that looked smashed.

It's like the phenomenon of accidents involving [the almost overnight popularity of] texting and moving vehicles, there seems to be a steep, society-wide learning curve when going from flip phones to touchscreen smartphones.

 

[yfan]

I don't know why people are referring to granite countertops as "cold". While they may feel cool and resist or are slow to reach a new temperature, they will be for the most part "room temperature". Granite countertops don't contain magic cooling coils. Just saying.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Actually, what you just described is the exact reason why glass can crack when set on granite, especially the phone is heated. The reason granite is "slow to reach a new temperature" is that it has a high specific heat, meaning that it needs to absorb more heat in order to reach a higher temperature than most objects. So when a warm piece of glass is put on a cold granite top, it draws the heat from the glass quickly, and since glass is a bad conductor of heat, the bottom surface (surface in contact with the granite) cools down faster than the surface not in contact, contracting the bottom surface faster than the other surface, which causes the crack. You can think of it as a magic coil, but it's actually simple science.

 

[Citizen Coyote]

I think a lot of folks with intact N4's aren't really understanding the situation. My phone is perfect but it's obvious that this is a relatively common complaint from people, and it's not really because "lol well glass breaks and water is wet" because the iPhone 4 for example had a glass setup too and this problem didn't seem as common at all. People cracked theirs, and now we're supposed to take into account temperature conditions before deciding where it's safe to put the phone? Not only that, the iPhone's glass went all the way to the edge, this one has a nice border around it.

Phones are really sensitive, maybe it's some maybe it's all but this isn't anything to discredit, because if yours broke because the god damn table was too cold you'd be pissed as well.

We don't know how much environmental factors are an issue, that's the problem. People are claiming their Nexus 4 "just broke" without any kind of outside force such as dropping the phone. How many of these are true defects, and how many are just made-up claims for whatever reason? Personally I feel the chance of the Nexus breaking due to temperature variation would be very small; heck, some reviewers stuffed theirs in a freezer in order to overcome the heat throttling in testing. If the N4 really was susceptible to such things, you would think someone would have noticed given such extreme testing.

Obviously something cracked these Nexi; eliminating reasons is just good practice. However, I also agree that anyone who bought one went in with full knowledge that the phone is made of glass, and needs to always be mindful of that. Reports of breakage therefore are really nothing new. Unless I can see more solid proof of cracking outside of phone violence, I'll continue to believe that the Nexus is no more fragile than the iPhone 4/4s.

Edit: forgot to add that a couple Google searches failed to reveal any solid evidence of glass breaking or cracking after being set on a cold granite counter top. Everything I did find had to do with dropping or knocking glassware over, and nothing with simply setting it down and having it crack. Could it happen? I think it's within the realm of possibility, but I'm thinking "freak accident" more than "regular occurrence."

 

[c_hri_s]

If it helps I used mine quite extensively in thick falling snow in Canada last week and it hasn't cracked.

Now it's back in the UK and still hasn't cracked.

 

[anon(20500)]

This has happened to me. Never dropped it. Treated it very carefully as I heard about the scratch issues. One night I just looked at the back and a solid what looks like crack across the back. No what I would consider extreme temperature changes for the phone. Mystery

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Actually, what you just described is the exact reason why glass can crack when set on granite, especially the phone is heated. The reason granite is "slow to reach a new temperature" is that it has a high specific heat, meaning that it needs to absorb more heat in order to reach a higher temperature than most objects. So when a warm piece of glass is put on a cold granite top, it draws the heat from the glass quickly, and since glass is a bad conductor of heat, the bottom surface (surface in contact with the granite) cools down faster than the surface not in contact, contracting the bottom surface faster than the other surface, which causes the crack. You can think of it as a magic coil, but it's actually simple science.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that what you're talking about applies to laminated glass, i.e. glass made of two panes bonded together, and not a single thin pane of glass. If that's what you're saying, then almost every piece of glass that separates a warm area from the cold outside would crack, since the temperature difference is substantial (for example, right now it's 72 degrees in my shop, but 30 outside).

Also, I've seen this type of thing happen with car windshields, but that was much more extreme temp differences, and using a heat gun (I tint windows) then applying pressure to the "cold" side.

So the theory of temperature change doesn't make much sense to me when we're talking about a single thin pane of glass that can change temps relatively quickly, and isn't going from 150+ to 40 degrees.

A much more likely cause would be some sort of stress fracture. There's no point of impact, so it's not necessarily from a drop, either.

 

[yfan]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that what you're talking about applies to laminated glass, i.e. glass made of two panes bonded together, and not a single thin pane of glass. If that's what you're saying, then almost every piece of glass that separates a warm area from the cold outside would crack, since the temperature difference is substantial (for example, right now it's 72 degrees in my shop, but 30 outside).

Also, I've seen this type of thing happen with car windshields, but that was much more extreme temp differences, and using a heat gun (I tint windows) then applying pressure to the "cold" side.

Two key differences: first, air is not granite. Air doesn't draw heat from objects in contact nearly as fast as granite. The glass panes have much more time to transfer the heat between inside and outside panels. It's not just about a temperature differential, it's also about specific heat, or how fast heat is transfered.

Second, two pieces of glass bonded together as pane actually prevents cracking from temperature changes. The double pane captures a small packet of air in between, which further slows heat transfers. And the 2 pieces of glass are not really affecting each other's differential in the surfaces.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Two key differences: first, air is not granite. Air doesn't draw heat from objects in contact nearly as fast as granite. The glass panes have much more time to transfer the heat between inside and outside panels. It's not just about a temperature differential, it's also about specific heat, or how fast heat is transfered.

Second, two pieces of glass bonded together as pane actually prevents cracking from temperature changes. The double pane captures a small packet of air in between, which further slows heat transfers. And the 2 pieces of glass are not really affecting each other's differential in the surfaces.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

I'm talking about two panes of glass that are bonded together, not separated by an air gap. Phone glass is more like automotive glass than it is residential glass. You know what I did do, though? I took my One X with it's really hot display (it's been sitting in the sun) and placed it flat on the concrete floor of the shop (in the shade, considerably colder) and guess what? It didn't crack. And before anyone worries, I made sure it was clean and free of debris, and lifted straight up and down to prevent scratches.

 

[yfan]

I'm talking about two panes of glass that are bonded together, not separated by an air gap. Phone glass is more like automotive glass than it is residential glass. You know what I did do, though? I took my One X with it's really hot display (it's been sitting in the sun) and placed it flat on the concrete floor of the shop (in the shade, considerably colder) and guess what? It didn't crack. And before anyone worries, I made sure it was clean and free of debris, and lifted straight up and down to prevent scratches.

What type of glass does the One X have on the display? Remember that we're dealing with the N4's back glass, which isn't Gorilla glass 2, like the front. Let's not go and compare apples to oranges here. Also sitting in the sun does not make a phone as hot as high intensity usage. You also can't replicate the exact conditions, which depend on temperature differentials as well as how long a phone was set down on a granite surface.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

What type of glass does the One X have on the display? Remember that we're dealing with the N4's back glass, which isn't Gorilla glass 2, like the front. Let's not go and compare apples to oranges here. Also sitting in the sun does not make a phone as hot as high intensity usage. You also can't replicate the exact conditions, which depend on temperature differentials as well as how long a phone was set down on a granite surface.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

Splitting hairs you are now. Original Gorilla Glass. So would you like me to do this with a regular pane of glass then? Cuz I can. And the result will be the same. I guarantee it. I'll heat it up to the point it's too hot to touch with bare hands and then put it straight on the concrete. That would be more extreme than anything a phone goes through right?

And yes, sitting in the sun will most certainly raise it to normal operating temperatures. I've been given the heat warning on the screen just by turning the screen on after it's sitting in the sun.

 

[yfan]

Splitting hairs you are now. Original Gorilla Glass. So would you like me to do this with a regular pane of glass then? Cuz I can. And the result will be the same. I guarantee it. I'll heat it up to the point it's too hot to touch with bare hands and then put it straight on the concrete. That would be more extreme than anything a phone goes through right?

And yes, sitting in the sun will most certainly raise it to normal operating temperatures. I've been given the heat warning on the screen just by turning the screen on after it's sitting in the sun.

No one is talking about "normal" operating temperature. Phones heat above normal depending on what you're doing with it. In the sun, you're heating up the top surface, the same surface you put on concrete. When the phone heats up from operations, it's the opposite. The surface facing the phone heats up more, then when placed on granite, the other surface cools fast. That's the tension. Go ahead, do your test with a hot piece of glass, and place it on ice cold granite (not your concrete floor). If you want to get closer to the real situation, find a way to heat one surface of the glass more than the other, and then place the relatively cooler (but still hot) surface on the ice cold granite. Go for it.

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[Kevin OQuinn]

No one is talking about "normal" operating temperature. Phones heat above normal depending on what you're doing with it. In the sun, you're heating up the top surface, the same surface you put on concrete. When the phone heats up from operations, it's the opposite. The surface facing the phone heats up more, then when placed on granite, the other surface cools fast. That's the tension. Go ahead, do your test with a hot piece of glass, and place it on ice cold granite (not your concrete floor). If you want to get closer to the real situation, find a way to heat one surface of the glass more than the other, and then place the relatively cooler (but still hot) surface on the ice cold granite. Go for it.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

I think you're confused about how glass heats up. Yes, it's an insulator, but it's not so thick that both sides to get hot. Heating up the entire pane of glass then putting one surface on the cold concrete would cause the same rapid change in temperature you have referred to. The glass isn't so thick that some of it is "shielded" or "insulated" from the sunlight hitting it. Trust me when I say the entire piece of glass gets the heat. If the inside of the phone gets that hot (pretty sure temp threshold is 150 at the HIGHEST) then the outside (cuz, you know, heat has to dissipate) wouldn't be touchable by human hands.

But what you're talking about with one "surface" of the glass being a significantly different temperature isn't accurate or realistic at all.

 

[AnGeor]

Splitting hairs you are now. Original Gorilla Glass. So would you like me to do this with a regular pane of glass then? Cuz I can. And the result will be the same. I guarantee it. I'll heat it up to the point it's too hot to touch with bare hands and then put it straight on the concrete. That would be more extreme than anything a phone goes through right?

And yes, sitting in the sun will most certainly raise it to normal operating temperatures. I've been given the heat warning on the screen just by turning the screen on after it's sitting in the sun.

you are still talking about glass, but try this with glass with some tension from frame and it will crack. same happened in my car with front window...

I just don't understand why some of you trying to prove that we are wrong... we know what happened with our phones, not you...

 

[donm527#IM]

could be a bad batch of glass... not tempered properly or thin spots at places that will cause cracking. it happens. thats why we have warranty

 

[yfan]

I think you're confused about how glass heats up. Yes, it's an insulator, but it's not so thick that both sides to get hot. Heating up the entire pane of glass then putting one surface on the cold concrete would cause the same rapid change in temperature you have referred to. The glass isn't so thick that some of it is "shielded" or "insulated" from the sunlight hitting it. Trust me when I say the entire piece of glass gets the heat. If the inside of the phone gets that hot (pretty sure temp threshold is 150 at the HIGHEST) then the outside (cuz, you know, heat has to dissipate) wouldn't be touchable by human hands.

But what you're talking about with one "surface" of the glass being a significantly different temperature isn't accurate or realistic at all.

No. It's you who doesn't seem to understand the science of how glass heats and how that relates to specific heat of objects it is put on. Concrete and granite do not have the same specific heat. And glass doesn't need to be that thick in order to create temperature differentials between two surfaces, especially when one surface is in contact with an object (concrete) that draws heat fast and the other is not. What I'm talking about isn't only realistic, it's scientific fact. Human touchability is not a proper measure of temperature. If it were, thermometers would be obsolete.

You can feel free to argue with science, or try what I said and see what happens.

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[donm527#IM]

my case should be coming in tomorrow and hopefully will reduce/avoid any cracking issue. cant beat for $10

https://www.rearthusa.com/google-nexus-4-ringke-slim-case

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

you are still talking about glass, but try this with glass with some tension from frame and it will crack. same happened in my car with front window...

I just don't understand why some of you trying to prove that we are wrong... we know what happened with our phones, not you...

I'm fairly certain that I listed stress as a possible cause of the crack. Frames flexing will definitely cause glass to crack. Glass on an automobile is held in place with a urethane adhesive. It gives it the ever so slightest amount of give. What it won't do, however, is what some are claiming, the "magic" cracking of the glass. All I'm (and others) are saying is that maybe those that have had the back glass crack have put tension on it without knowing. I'm still trying to understand how it's so hard to accept that things can happen without your knowledge, or on accident.

No. It's you who doesn't seem to understand the science of how glass heats and how that relates to specific heat of objects it is put on. Concrete and granite do not have the same specific heat. And glass doesn't need to be that thick in order to create temperature differentials between two surfaces, especially when one surface is in contact with an object (concrete) that draws heat fast and the other is not. What I'm talking about isn't only realistic, it's scientific fact. Human touchability is not a proper measure of temperature. If it were, thermometers would be obsolete.

You can feel free to argue with science, or try what I said and see what happens.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

Again, splitting hairs. What's the temp difference between the two surfaces of glass when the glass is 1mm thick? How "scientific" would you like to get? We don't even know what kind of glass the back is, let alone its chemical makeup. That would mean we have no idea what the glass was designed to endure, where it's structural weaknesses could lie, or anything else. It could just be regular old silica glass, with no special processes or additives to give it more resiliency at all. Heck, we don't even know the exact chemical makeup of Gorilla Glass 2. But saying that heating a regular pane of glass to temperatures far beyond what our phone will get to, then placing them on a cold concrete surface isn't more extreme than what our phones endure is, really, kind of ignorant. If I had a granite surface I would use it.

As for your human touch point. Sure, fair enough. But how many times has your phone been too hot to touch? And where was it if it ever happened? ONLY in direct sunlight will it get like that. Or if it is faulty hardware and doesn't properly throttle itself. But if that's the case your phone is going to burn itself out.

You know what's even harder on glass? Heating it up a LOT and then spraying ice cold water on it. But I guess then you're going to argue that I can't guarantee that the water is hitting the pane evenly or something else like that.

Page 2, second paragraph of THIS article should help settle this. Scientific enough for you?

 

[yfan]

^^ Yeah, when you bump into science, put 'scientific' in quotes and call it splitting hairs. Although, when it comes to it, science IS often about picking up on what appears negligible to the naked eye. So I guess so. But have fun. I explained the science, and you want to argue. I'm not engaging in a circular argument. I just think it's funny you're backing away from the experiment you yourself suggested, once I added some control variables. Knock yourself out.

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[Kevin OQuinn]

^^ Yeah, when you bump into science, put 'scientific' in quotes and call it splitting hairs. Although, when it comes to it, science IS often about picking up on what appears negligible to the naked eye. So I guess so. But have fun. I explained the science, and you want to argue. I'm not engaging in a circular argument. I just think it's funny you're backing away from the experiment you yourself suggested, once I added some control variables. Knock yourself out.

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Did you read the scientific research that I provided? Goes into pretty good detail about the temp difference required for glass to crack with no external force.

And then when I point out even more variables that we can't possibly know you ignore that. Smh

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[Crow1336]

So did the OP contact Google? I wonder how they responded.