LG V20 - DAC Problem?

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

He's saying the DAC doesn't activate without anything plugged into the jack

That is true but has nothing to do with this thread

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

As others have noted, the title of this thread is WAY off base. There is NO flaw, much less serious.
Now to some there maybe issues that are not up to the standards they are looking for. But a phone is not a fine musical instrument. The V20 is a good computer that can do a lots of things like make phone calls, play music, take pictures and let us surf the Internet, among others.
For me, the V20 is a great device and a good phone.

Lateck,

The advertisement is that this phone IS an audiophile music player that also happens to make phone calls.

 

[pvcleave]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

I have been using the Nuetron player with many different headphones. Not high end, but good quality.

Sennheiser HD 598
Audio-Technica ATH-M50x
and a few others.

I do not hear any differences. With some of them I hear louder, but no better quality. If these only work with LG Music app, I am very pissed that AT&T decided to remove it.

 

[tadpoles]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

The ONLY reason to get this phone is for the DAC!!!!

Lol. That was cute. Untrue for many...but cute.

 

[anony_mouse]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

Let's face it. The primary reason that people are going to buy this phone is because it has the equivalent of a $300 external DAC/Amp built into it. LG has done advertising for months touting the ES9218 "Quad" DAC that they included. The only problem is that they include NO WAY TO USE IT!! The phones API only exposes the ES9218 DAC as a PCM 48Khz capable device. That means that the built in Qualcomm DAC that is worth about thirty cents is about as good. Here is proof from the developer of NeutronMP...

According your logs (Thank you for making them!) OS declares only one
(!!!) frequency - 48000 kHz. You can see it in logs:

[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: device 0
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: id = 1
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: type = 1
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: name = LG-LS997
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: is sink = 1
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: is source = 0
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: channels [1]:
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| - 1
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: sample rates [1]:
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| - 48000
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| enum: sample types [1]:
[13:08:16] I <SFX>| - 2

It means firmware does not expose Hi-Fi DAC via this new API. Why LG can not make it and expose DAC and solve the problem with using full potential of the device - puzzle. Neutron would use it automatically if DAC is exposed by the firmware.

I have contacted both LG and Sprint and neither support staff is willing to escalate. We need to demand action as a group as this is the PRIMARY unique feature of this particular smartphone.

I really wouldn't worry about this. You will not be able to hear any improvement with higher than 48kHz sampling rates, or higher than 16 bit per sample resolution. In fact, going above 48kHz will actually make the sound worse in many practical situations because of limitations in the analogue circuitry.

See e.g. 24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed

Well done to LG for not compromising the audio quality of the V20 for the sake of "improving" the spec sheet.

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

I have been using the Nuetron player with many different headphones. Not high end, but good quality.

Sennheiser HD 598
Audio-Technica ATH-M50x
and a few others.

I do not hear any differences. With some of them I hear louder, but no better quality. If these only work with LG Music app, I am very pissed that AT&T decided to remove it.

YES! You have discovered the problem! It doesn't work properly with ANY app.

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

I really wouldn't worry about this. You will not be able to hear any improvement with higher than 48kHz sampling rates, or higher than 16 bit per sample resolution. In fact, going above 48kHz will actually make the sound worse in many practical situations because of limitations in the analogue circuitry.

See e.g. 24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed

Well done to LG for not compromising the audio quality of the V20 for the sake of "improving" the spec sheet.

That report has been debunked MANY times. This isn't about whether something is good for you or not. The issue is providing access to what you sold us.

 

[D13H4RD2L1V3]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

Apparently, the phone is able to detect what type of headphones are connected to it based on drivers and other performance factors, and as such, adjusts the quality of its playback in order to best fit the connected headphones.

That means you may not get the full experience if your headphones aren't the hardest to drive, for example, though it is apparently possible to trick it into using all of its power.

 

[anony_mouse]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

That report has been debunked MANY times.

No. The laws of physics and the characteristics of the human ear are well known and 48kHz (or often 44.1kHz) and 16 bit resolution is sufficient. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

This isn't about whether something is good for you or not. The issue is providing access to what you sold us.

What's the point of an audiophile DAC that sounds worse than necessary?

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

Analogy time:

I'm a speed freak. In fact, I own a racecar and a race track. The race car can go 250mph but has no muffler and isn't street legal. I also own a Hyundai that I drive everywhere. I have always wanted the speed that I can get in my race car but be able to drive it everywhere so that I don't have to maintain two different vehicles.

Kia announces they have a new car that can go 250mph. I excitedly go to the dealership and buy it. I drive it home thinking that everything looks great and feels great. Excitedly, I pull up to my race track, and I floor it! The car feels amazing and gets me to 60 in 2.3 seconds, but I keep going. I am up to 70mph and the car won't accelerate any more. No matter how hard I press the gas, the speed does not go over 70.

I pull over, frustrated and look at the engine. I hook up an ODB scanner and see that the software in the engine has a limiter set at 70mph. I call Kia but can only get hold of sales people. I then look online to talk to other owners of this Kia. They all tell me that I am insane! The car gets you from one place to another and goes as fast as the normal speed limits. I say, but wait, they advertised that it can go 250mph. It has a 750HP engine in it. One of the folks pipes up that the GPS and radio work great! Another says, man, that thing sounds amazing when accelerating. Still another asks if I inserted the key into the ignition and pressed on the gas. One person even says that humans get nothing out of going fast.

The consensus is that you should be happy having a car that gets you from one place to another.

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

Apparently, the phone is able to detect what type of headphones are connected to it based on drivers and other performance factors, and as such, adjusts the quality of its playback in order to best fit the connected headphones.

That means you may not get the full experience if your headphones aren't the hardest to drive, for example, though it is apparently possible to trick it into using all of its power.

No, that is not what it does. It detects the impedance of the headphones and adjusts the gain stage. The DAC can bypass some of its pipline if it detects source data that is less than necessary requirements for higher end processing.

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

No. The laws of physics and the characteristics of the human ear are well known and 48kHz (or often 44.1kHz) and 16 bit resolution is sufficient. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.



What's the point of an audiophile DAC that sounds worse than necessary?

Please see audio video science forums for a thorough debunking.

 

[Jeremiah Bonds]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

I do a lot of studio work, and while I won't say that the DAC is perfect, it's definitely better than other phones I've listened through.

If you don't like it.. just return the phone and get another phone that will probably have worse sound..

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

I do a lot of studio work, and while I won't say that the DAC is perfect, it's definitely better than other phones I've listened through.

If you don't like it.. just return the phone and get another phone that will probably have worse sound..

Again, not the point. Don't you want to use everything that you purchased?

 

[Almeuit]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

Updated Thread Title

 

[D13H4RD2L1V3]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

No, that is not what it does. It detects the impedance of the headphones and adjusts the gain stage. The DAC can bypass some of its pipline if it detects source data that is less than necessary requirements for higher end processing.

Ah, right. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Jeremiah Bonds]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

Updated Thread Title

Thanks

 

[tadpoles]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

Again, not the point. Don't you want to use everything that you purchased?

Not necessarily. Just what I want and need.

 

[Mike Dee]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

I have been using the Nuetron player with many different headphones. Not high end, but good quality.

Sennheiser HD 598
Audio-Technica ATH-M50x
and a few others.

I do not hear any differences. With some of them I hear louder, but no better quality. If these only work with LG Music app, I am very pissed that AT&T decided to remove it.

I'm assuming you turned on the DAC

 

[traviswhayne]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

You purchased a smartphone with, among other things a great camera, removable battery, MicroSD support, Android Nougat and yes Hi-Res Audio capabilities. Now we could argue all day about what "Hi-Res" means but in the end if the phone doesn't do what you expected it to you should take it back and get something else. You were not sold a DAC, you were sold a phone with a DAC. LG engineered the DAC in a way they felt was best, and you can disagree and return the device. This is actually quite simple. And let us know when you come across a better DAC/Phone setup, so that everyone can benefit... or not.