I think there's antiT-mobile people lerking here. Obviously tmobile's network is the one that struggles most with deep wall penetration and is currently the only carrier to offer wifi calling (well, much more than Sprint)
Nexus 5 likely to see Wi-Fi calling over T-mobile soon?
- Thread starter Jeremy8000
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I think there's antiT-mobile people lerking here. Obviously tmobile's network is the one that struggles most with deep wall penetration and is currently the only carrier to offer wifi calling (well, much more than Sprint)
I hope (and, to be honest, think that) you are 100% right. That said, towards the end of fulfilling my need to play devil's advocate, I will say that statements from manufacturers often take a bit of poetic license with the purpose of better PR - so if the iOS lays the groundwork, that would be sufficient substantiation behind their claim, even if it required a carrier-specific modification on their end for the specific handsets purposed for that carrier. Again, hoping you're 100% correct as then the N5 gaining WiFi calling would logically follow. I spent about 10 years on the tech side in the GSM carrier industry (a few with T-Mo) - not that that gives me any basis by which to claim inside knowledge or a 'right to be correct' - and have seen loophole justifications for claims used many, many times.
The handsets Apple ships for different carriers are different, even for the US GSM carriers T-Mo and AT&T. They're the same hardware and software specs, but have a sub-model number differentiating them. The specifics of what differences lay between are not known - it could be as simple as a carrier logo being displayed on boot-up, locking the phone to the carrier,etc, or could also include minor firmware revisions.
All in all, I'm pretty convinced at this point that the Nexus 5 will soon support WiFi calling, which, if that holds true, will make it a tough call as to whether to upgrade to the new Nexus or not.
I have been very curious as to what is going on not just from the end user perspective, but also as somebody who holds a minor in RF Engineering and while I do not work in the industry, I find the industry extremely fascinating.
I should first point out that my understanding has been cobbled together from a few difference sources (one being iMore another Mobile Nations Website) and before I got any farther lets identify some terms.
As I understand things, GAN is a method by which VOICE/DATA (either via SIP or IMS) are transported over a IP Network and UMA is the technology which allows Mobile Operators to move VOICE/DATA over a GAN.
You can kind of think of the GAN as your Wi-Fi Access Point and UMA as your iPhone (for this example) and as long as your iPhone has the needed software (which iOS 8 brings with it) and configured properly to work with the cellular carrier (currently T-Mobile here in the USA), the iPhone can use Wi-Fi Calling, which is the marketing term being used to describe UMA.
So what does this all mean for the Nexus 5, Android L and Wi-Fi Calling? Well, as I understand things, if (and that is a big if) Android L bring along as part of its feature set Wi-Fi Calling, all T-Mobile would have to do is push some configuration setting to enable Wi-Fi Calling on their network. Now, there are a bunch of assumptions here like T-Mobile being willing to push those settings or if Google decides to bring this feature (if it is even being offered) to older devices.
For whatever it is worth,
Dan
I should first point out that my understanding has been cobbled together from a few difference sources (one being iMore another Mobile Nations Website) and before I got any farther lets identify some terms.
- GAN (Generic Access Network)
- UMA (Unlicensed or Universal [depending on the texts] Mobile Access)
- Wi-Fi Calling (Marketing Term for UMA)
- SIP (Session Initiation Protocol)
- IMS (IP Multimedia Subsystem)
As I understand things, GAN is a method by which VOICE/DATA (either via SIP or IMS) are transported over a IP Network and UMA is the technology which allows Mobile Operators to move VOICE/DATA over a GAN.
You can kind of think of the GAN as your Wi-Fi Access Point and UMA as your iPhone (for this example) and as long as your iPhone has the needed software (which iOS 8 brings with it) and configured properly to work with the cellular carrier (currently T-Mobile here in the USA), the iPhone can use Wi-Fi Calling, which is the marketing term being used to describe UMA.
So what does this all mean for the Nexus 5, Android L and Wi-Fi Calling? Well, as I understand things, if (and that is a big if) Android L bring along as part of its feature set Wi-Fi Calling, all T-Mobile would have to do is push some configuration setting to enable Wi-Fi Calling on their network. Now, there are a bunch of assumptions here like T-Mobile being willing to push those settings or if Google decides to bring this feature (if it is even being offered) to older devices.
For whatever it is worth,
Dan
you're looking passed the veil, (excellent)
google has now provided an **over the top** voip solution, which puts the users in power **instead of the carriers*; yes, google's solution is simply a software solution, verses the carrier's hardware / network'd one..
it was all political anyways -
http://disruptive-analysis.com/Disruptive%20Analysis%20-%20Limitations%20of%20CS%20Fallback.pdf (pdf)
Phoning it in: the dirty secret of IP calling, and how it will change the phone industry | The Verge
foresight for users, we don't need to upgrade our usable, handsets, for data calling..
Yes, I am quite aware of that carriers and manufacturers engage in a lot of hand waving PR speak, which can make it hard to figure out the technical details. But I don't see the value of adding personal speculation on top of that. It just muddies what was already muddied. I was trying to provide actual information that has been supplied by Apple, as reported by GSMArena. It could turn out to be wrong, but that's really all we have to go on at this point. Extra speculation on top of that doesn't really clarify things, I think.
I don't think that's quite correct, at least as far as the hardware goes. At least starting with the iPhone 5 (and this appears to be true of the iPhone 6 also), there is a GSM variant that is identical for AT&T and T-Mobile and a CDMA variant for Sprint and Verizon. And then there is a slightly different GSM variant, I think, for Europe and the rest of the world.
Interestingly, I was just reading that as LTE and VoLTE become the norm and carriers repurpose 2G and 3G bandwidth for LTE, we could finally get a world where phones are completely interoperable between all networks (it would be simpler to have a single LTE radio that covers all necessary frequencies, than the current hodge podge of GSM, UMTS, LTE, CDMA radios in a single phone). I imagine if that ever happens, it's a long way off.
it would be nice, but the carrier wouldn't want it;
**they're payday is lock-in to the network**
with in-compatible networks where phones are hard pressed to seamlessly switch, the barrier being via air interface technology, or spectrum bands used..
your post is a great one, one air interface to rule them all, then all the manufacturers have to focus on is spectrum bands,
but on the flip side, it puts the power back in the users hands, away from the carriers (good thing)
user with an unlocked phone in scenario: "you know what, your network sucks, & I've found a much better deal on service with ... I'm leaving today, here's your sim card back.....
ooh, I'm taking my phone with me..."
in turn, making their networks dumb pipes, & as back in the wireless analog days, buy one phone, take to any carrier..
the carriers don't want that..
To the politics reference, I will leave that to people far smarter than I, as I am a lowly Engineer and do not profess to understand politics all that well.
The Google solution, I am assuming you are referring to is Hangouts and you are right it does remove the middle man (at least for now) and assuming one has enough DATA (which today is a lot less than before).
Dan
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Doesn't tmobile and to a certain extent, att, already do that?
They don't say, "hey you have an unlocked phone, you can't put your sim card there and make the phone work!"
You can still put a verizon sim card and get lte to work (no cdma radio)
you can still put a sprint sim card and get lte to work (no cdma radio)
Nexus 5 works on 3/4 carriers.
CDMA iphone works on 3/4 carriers (minus the other cdma carrier verizon/sprint vice versa)
But politics aside, ATT/verizon and sprint are all going to offer wifi calling next year. Yeah, it's not as fast as tmobile, but tmobile NEEDED this. The others (minus sprint) didn't really need it that much. You guys act like att/verizon aren't caving in. They basically already did.
Everything we're discussing is speculation based on a foundation of assumed facts and historical tendencies. I disagree about GSMArena's reporting of Apple's supplied information being all we should go on when speculating a conclusion - we also have known actions resulting from carrier/OEM relationships in the past, which is the basis of my additional speculation. My "extra" speculation doesn't help further define what is the answer, but I do believe it is helpful in preventing a logical alternative from being prematurely dismissed.
You raised a doubt as there being distinct versions for like-technology carriers (i.e. T-Mobile & AT&T) earlier, to which I responded in this post with a specific example showing that there were indeed distinctions - but I failed earlier to annotate my source. This site details all the distinct "part numbers" by carrier. While I earlier referred to the carrier-specific items as 'sub-models,' the article refers to them as 'part numbers,' but for purposes of this discussion that distinction is historically irrelevant and does not preclude the near assurance that there are at least some nominal differences between them other than packaging (e.g., carrier-locking).
Here's some of the distinctions excerpted from that site, taking one specific model/storage/color option and its availability per each of the main US carriers:
AT&T and T-Mobile, both GSM, use different part numbers. Verizon and Sprint actually use wholly different model numbers. It is for public perception and brand/model simplicity that Apple calls them all the "iPhone 6 64GB Gold," and this label clearly does not disprove variance between carrier offerings, even carriers operating primarily on the same network technology.
Any reason why you don't use the Google Voice/hangouts app for visual voicemail? Just set up call forwarding to send your unanswered/ignored calls to your GV#, and the caller can leave a voicemail there. And you get that as a message in the hangouts app (and your Gmail if you want) that you can listen to just as normal. And free transcription along with that.
WiFi calling is also supported with hangouts on Android (just need the hangouts dialer app from the play store).
whoa, don't be so modest, you aren't giving yourself nearly enough credit with that "lowly engineer" thingy -
"..The engineering mindset tends to focus on the long term. When you build a bridge that will be there for 100 years, you have to think about its impact, and its ability to absorb future traffic growth and adapt to new kinds of transport. "A lot of what we're seeing in China's astounding growth is that sort of long-term thinking," Wulf said.
There was a time when engineers played a greater role in U.S. public policy. NASA program directors--technocrats in the broadest sense--worked to get funding for the U.S. space program at its inception in the late 1950s. But even that effort doesn't match the role engineers are playing in other countries, according to Wulf.
"Maybe they were program directors in NASA, but they weren't in Congress, and you wouldn't have heard them opining about the economy," he said. If not politically inclined, then what are engineers? In their own words, they're logical, detail oriented and methodical. The profession attracts those who don't mind working on their own and who are confident--maybe overconfident--about their own abilities, said Vivek Wadhwa, a Harvard University fellow and professor at Duke University's Pratt School of Engineering..."
from
Engineering 'mindset' doesn't include politics
... on your point about enough data, to do adequate voice calls, I suspect this is the reason google re-opened voice to voip on mobile recently, because carriers now give voice away, & focus moreso on data buckets, gv isn't even a threat today as it was in the past, but I suspect google may be plotting yet another move slowly but surely on that front -
what if google became a MNVO? would you be tempted?
& this helps me focus my reply to bigballer, it's because it's within the data, not voice, that the carriers covet!
att / Verizon haven't quite caved by a longshot; the division of spectrum frequencies used by every carrier still hinders phones from being universal, not even talking about the rest of the world, just here in the US alone!
top that off, right now the game is data metered by the MB, verses devices sold to us subscribers as *phones* when their much more than so,
I even wish they stop calling them phones, these devices are way too data eccentric, & depended on data, than voice.. - that's no phone..
aat / Verizon WANTS to squeeze every ounce of life from subs that they can, by charging metered data, & not even offer it at full rate if they can get away with it;
did you know, that att/Verizon wanted the fcc to keep the definition of broadband at 4mbps, instead of 10mbps? **this is on wireline, thus even lowering the bar on wireless** -
AT&T and Verizon say 10Mbps is too fast for “broadband,” 4Mbps is enough | Ars Technica
the fcc later told them to put the weed away -
Sorry, AT&T and Verizon: 4Mbps isn’t fast enough for “broadband” | Ars Technica
**I'm not changing the topic, just putting my point into perspective in relation to the topic of thread, that it basically political BS** that we need to purchase newer handsets for this ability.. no we don't..
my point in the prior post that the providers not wanting an lte network to rule them all would be end game for them (well the exploiters) also, since EVERYTHING would be data including voice, with devices (no longer phones. let's get real) on outdated plans with anemic data tiers, that starve these devices out, wtf is 2-3GB on our devices today?
if nothing but world phones operating seamlessly on lte, would be placed in subs hands, it would place these wireless carriers (here in the US under common carrier status), & they definitely don't want that -
Nobody's Neutral In Net Neutrality Debate - Slashdot
&
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/att-claims-common-carrier-rules-would-ruin-the-whole-internet/
if they had common carrier status today, do you know how that would empower all mobile subscribers?
[/B]
.....
~EDIT~
let's wait for it -
P.S.: Crush telecoms.
Nothing annoys platform companies like having to go through other platforms. If you think you’re mad at telecoms and cable companies, that hate is a mere fraction of what Google execs feel toward them. Between Netflix paying off Comcast and Verizon to get a faster video network pipe, broadband providers’ archaic infrastructure and poor customer service, and dealing with near-weekly idiocies like Verizon’s Chromebook data plan screw-up, you can be sure that Google sees Verizon, Comcast, and the rest as gazelles in desperate need of euthanasia. Google would love to go all Hachette on Time Warner’s ****, and Google’s huge move into fiber networks, satellites, wind turbines, and balloons is intended to contribute to the gazelle-ification of a bunch of telecoms no one likes. You can’t build a platform on top of ancient deadwood. Having built one platform beachhead in advertising and planning out several more platforms in new markets, there is one bit of cleanup that remains for the master plan to be complete: Grind the old platforms—the ones leeching off your success—into dust.
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/06/google_s_master_plan_turn_everything_into_data.single.html
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lol.. & this is what confuses me with current consumers;
most times, the solution for what they want is sitting right in front of them already, but yet they'll ignore all the arrows telling them so, & spend hard earned for the next best, when the current had it anyways, all it took was a little work to release the feature.
my sprint number is integrated with google voice since years ago;
I'm going to attempt to take MY sprint sim card out, & connect to wifi, then call, sms, & mms right now.. hold up..
but wait.. wouldn't that be the same as dis-abling the cellular connection (airplane mode) within the nexus 5 & re-enabling the wifi?
In all fairness, VoIP using hangouts on Android is relatively new - just a few weeks (if that). And let's face it - Google doesn't really advertise new features for their apps like certain other companies do. Users who follow android blogs will know about it, but folks who don't regularly read Android blogs may not know about it for a while
well, it's an old *new* re-introduced; via hangouts..
pre hangouts,
I was doing it on my nexus s 4g, & watched as google broked the functionality -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXPPSTvsdaw
but correct you are, via hangouts, voip is relatively new..
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I tried it, but I believe the google voice app is utter crap. It's a nice start, but the app is hardly intuitive compared to other google apps and it's clear google stopped witht he "big updates" to voice.
You do realize verizon and att are going to start offering wifi calling in 2015, right?
Thus, they are "caving" into wifi calling. No one saying wifi calling is a bad idea.
I don't have att or verizon as my internet provider and probably never will with their archaic DSL internet. None of that really matters to me.
Have you tried using hangouts instead? Does the same thing, and you may like the UI.
Regarding the GV app being intuitive - it is just a messaging app - messages presented in a sequence. It is intuitive enough. May not be pretty, but worked fine
Hangouts is 'prettier' I guessSimilar threads
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