Nexus 8 or iPad Mini, what's the best tablet for college?

[Dannirobern]

We had a nerd argument about this recently on another thread.

Android, the OS, is free. You can use it on any device you want, without paying google a dime. You do not need the Play store to use Android...you can make your own apps for it or use apps from other stores (like Amazon). It is completely possible to use Android with zero Google stuff on it. Android does not = Google, even though Google makes it...it is it's own thing.

But the OS does NOT include Google apps (Google Maps, GMail, the Play Store, ect). These are things tied to Google itself, not Android. They are no different from the Facebook app or Twitter or any other "owned" app. Google can deny you the permission to install them. Google has a certain set of conditions that must be met by an OEM before they'll do this. Some tablet makers (usually low-end foreign ones) can't or don't want to meet these conditions, so Google does not allow them to pre-install google apps. Obviously, you can't install apps from the play store if you do not have the Play store app installed itself. When people say "Vanilla Android", they usually mean the basic OS + google apps, without any skin overlay like Touchwiz. The Shield tablet will ship with google apps pre-installed.

This does not mean that people cannot install them manually. It just means they can't SOLD with the apps already on them. After you buy it, you can download and install them yourself if you want. Even the Play store.

Your dad might be talking about one of these kinds of tablets. All the Play store apps will still work on them just fine though.

I'm not really sure, he seemed to think that his tablet couldn't run some apps. I guess it could be true, after all some apps require certain functions on a phone or tablet.
My dad read me an article that was predicting that Android was going to work with some companies for their new operating system, Silver is it? But Samsung isn't one of those companies and isn't expected to get on board. I might not be remembering it all correctly but it was something like that.

 

[JeffDenver]

I'm not really sure, he seemed to think that his tablet couldn't run some apps.

Ask him for some examples.

My dad read me an article that was predicting that Android was going to work with some companies for their new operating system, Silver is it? But Samsung isn't one of those companies and isn't expected to get on board. I might not be remembering it all correctly but it was something like that.

Silver is just Vanilla android. It means android with google apps and a minimal or non-existent skin. "Silver" devices mean devices that are skin-free.

Samsung devices will still run the same apps as Silver devices. Both will run Android apps. Think of Vanilla Android as a Ferrari, and Touchwize as a Ferrari with a camper built onto the back of it. They are both still Ferraris, will use the same parts, ect.

 

[Dannirobern]

Ask him for some examples.


Silver is just Vanilla android. It means android with google apps and a minimal or non-existent skin. "Silver" devices mean devices that are skin-free.

Samsung devices will still run the same apps as Silver devices. Both will run Android apps. Think of Vanilla Android as a Ferrari, and Touchwize as a Ferrari with a camper built onto the back of it. They are both still Ferraris, will use the same parts, ect.

Oh, huh....
He said the Yahoo Aviate launcher was the only thing he could think of but there have been "lots and lots of examples over the years". Says his HTC phone which runs Gingerbread can use Aviate

 

[codyoehl]

My BF has a GS3 and a co-worker of mine just got a S4 I set up...neither allows ART. Both have KitKat.

Huh, that is strange
See, I can do it

Posted via Android Central App with my Samsung Galaxy S5

 

[JeffDenver]

Oh, huh....
He said the Yahoo Aviate launcher was the only thing he could think of but there have been "lots and lots of examples over the years".

I don't know...if there are "lots and lots" of examples, I would think coming up with a few should be pretty easy. There are over a million apps in the Play store right now.

I was able to install this app on all my devices. And my BFs, Samsung Galaxy S3. I can't think of any devices this would not work on. What devices does he say this won't install on?

Says his HTC phone which runs Gingerbread can use Aviate

OS versions are a different story. Gingerbread is a very old. Just as there are Windows 8 programs that will not run on Windows 98, there may be Kitkat apps that won't run on Gingerbread. The exact same thing is true of iOS...there are apps that will run on the iPhone 5 that won't run on the iPhone 3g.

Most of this is moot now...you can't even buy a device running less than Jellybean now, and the vast majority will ship with KitKat (even really crappy low-end devices). It sounds like your dad has a fundamental misunderstanding about how Android works. Android Apps are pretty universal now.

 

[ljxdaly]

i've enjoyed this thread; have learned alot.

let me add this to the discussion: reading a simple text pdf on a 7" tablet is challenging. forget about a textbook pdf. imo, a 10" form factor for that is better....more than better...maybe essential. the extra screen real estate is nice sometimes.....and i bet it is nice for note taking as well.

i've never had the good fortune to try out any other sizes. just 7 and 10 more me. i'm thinking that an 8" form factor might be the sweet spot for me.

 

[Aquila]

In terms of screen area, an 8" tablet has about 30.61% more area than an 8" tablet and a 10" tablet has approximately 104.05% more screen area, assuming the diagonal measurements are exactly 7", 8" and 10". If the Nexus is truly 8.9" for example, then it will be about 23.77% bigger than an 8.0" tablet and 61.65% larger than a 7.0" tablet. A 10" tablet is around 26% larger than an 8.9" tablet. Not sure if any of that matters.

 

[JeffDenver]

Huh, that is strange
See, I can do it

Posted via Android Central App with my Samsung Galaxy S5

Just checked again. Those options don't show up on kitkat gs3.

 

[codyoehl]

Just checked again. Those options don't show up on kitkat gs3.

Oh well it doesn't really matter
It didn't work well when I switched it anyway, that's why I switched back

Posted via Android Central App with my Samsung Galaxy S5

 

[Dannirobern]

I don't know...if there are "lots and lots" of examples, I would think coming up with a few should be pretty easy. There are over a million apps in the Play store right now.

I was able to install this app on all my devices. And my BFs, Samsung Galaxy S3. I can't think of any devices this would not work on. What devices does he say this won't install on?


OS versions are a different story. Gingerbread is a very old. Just as there are Windows 8 programs that will not run on Windows 98, there may be Kitkat apps that won't run on Gingerbread. The exact same thing is true of iOS...there are apps that will run on the iPhone 5 that won't run on the iPhone 3g.

Most of this is moot now...you can't even buy a device running less than Jellybean now, and the vast majority will ship with KitKat (even really crappy low-end devices). It sounds like your dad has a fundamental misunderstanding about how Android works. Android Apps are pretty universal now.

It's his Archos tablet that won't run Yahoo Aviate, even though it's updated almost to KitKat (I think)
He's had this tablet a couple years. But he seems pretty certain, I mean if an app doesn't work it doesn't work....He only really uses his tablet for recipes and sheet music so I doubt he's surfing the app store often.

 

[Dannirobern]

i've enjoyed this thread; have learned alot.

let me add this to the discussion: reading a simple text pdf on a 7" tablet is challenging. forget about a textbook pdf. imo, a 10" form factor for that is better....more than better...maybe essential. the extra screen real estate is nice sometimes.....and i bet it is nice for note taking as well.

i've never had the good fortune to try out any other sizes. just 7 and 10 more me. i'm thinking that an 8" form factor might be the sweet spot for me.

I also think 8" is the perfect size

 

[JeffDenver]

It's his Archos tablet that won't run Yahoo Aviate, even though it's updated almost to KitKat (I think)

Archos is not a mainstream brand, so it's not really analogous to what we are talking about here. So not sure what to tell you without more information, except that it's not the norm on Android. Even with off-brands.

I defintiely would not compare the experience of an off-brand Android tablet with a iPad. If you want an iOS-like experience with and Android device, you're not going to get it with an Archos tablet.

He's had this tablet a couple years.

So you are saying it is not a current tablet. Ok. That explains a lot.

What does "almost to KitKat" mean? I thought you said before it was Gingerbread. That is nowhere close to Kitkat...thats a very old version of the OS.

But he seems pretty certain, I mean if an app doesn't work it doesn't work....

Lots of apps may not work on a given device. But the reasons you gave before would not be the reason it is not working...Google is not preventing any Android device from running this app.

Among the reason it might not run:
1 - Devices GPU may be too weak to run the UI
2 - The device maker may be using a skin that interferes with the app
3 - The device may have insufficient RAM to run the app
4 - The app might require a newer version of the OS
5 - Device may not have shipped with Google Apps (including Play services which this app might need to run)

All those things are likely on a cheap off-brand tablet from years ago trying to run a modern app. This is not a comprehensive list either, it is just the first things that came to mind for me. This is one of the hazards you have to put up with if you want to use devices from the extreme low end.

But...like I said, I own an extreme low-end device. It runs Jellybean, and aside from running apps slowly and not multitasking well, it has run every app I have installed on it (except the ones that require KitKat).

He only really uses his tablet for recipes and sheet music so I doubt he's surfing the app store often.

Honestly, it sounds like he is jumping to conclusions based on isolated experiences. Maybe he was expecting an iOS-like experience...but even on iOS there are apps that will run on an iPhone 4S that won't run on an iPhone 3G. There is really no platform where you can avoid these issues completely.

 

[Dannirobern]

Archos is not a mainstream brand, so it's not really analogous to what we are talking about here. So not sure what to tell you without more information, except that it's not the norm on Android. Even with off-brands.

I defintiely would not compare the experience of an off-brand Android tablet with a iPad. If you want an iOS-like experience with and Android device, you're not going to get it with an Archos tablet.


So you are saying it is not a current tablet. Ok. That explains a lot.

What does "almost to KitKat" mean? I thought you said before it was Gingerbread. That is nowhere close to Kitkat...thats a very old version of the OS.


Lots of apps may not work on a given device. But the reasons you gave before would not be the reason it is not working...Google is not preventing any Android device from running this app.

Among the reason it might not run:
1 - Devices GPU may be too weak to run the UI
2 - The device maker may be using a skin that interferes with the app
3 - The device may have insufficient RAM to run the app
4 - The app might require a newer version of the OS
5 - Device may not have shipped with Google Apps (including Play services which this app might need to run)

All those things are likely on a cheap off-brand tablet from years ago trying to run a modern app. This is not a comprehensive list either, it is just the first things that came to mind for me. This is one of the hazards you have to put up with if you want to use devices from the extreme low end.

But...like I said, I own an extreme low-end device. It runs Jellybean, and aside from running apps slowly and not multitasking well, it has run every app I have installed on it (except the ones that require KitKat).


Honestly, it sounds like he is jumping to conclusions based on isolated experiences. Maybe he was expecting an iOS-like experience...but even on iOS there are apps that will run on an iPhone 4S that won't run on an iPhone 3G. There is really no platform where you can avoid these issues completely.

No his phone runs Gingerbread, he just said his tablet was update to a fairly recent version of Android. It doesn't really matter in any case though, his tablet only has 1gb of RAM and is super slow so he'll likely purchase a new one soon.

 

[JeffDenver]

No his phone runs Gingerbread, he just said his tablet was update to a fairly recent version of Android. It doesn't really matter in any case though, his tablet only has 1gb of RAM and is super slow so he'll likely purchase a new one soon.

I'd recommend a vanilla android device (even a low-end one). Especially Nexus devices. They are more likely to get updates and more likely to run well. They are generally cheaper as well.

For cheap tablets I would look at the Nexus 7 (2012 version) - Retail they go for about $130. I think you can only get them on eBay now...retail stock is probably exhausted, but they are great tablets. The Asus MeMo Pad goes for around $100, and is a great tablet for that price. Asus is the same company that has made the last two nexus tablets (including the one here).

Do not buy refurbished if you can avoid it. A lot of refurbished products work great, but you are taking your chances. Refurbished does not mean store models or open box...it means products that were actually returned to the manufacturer due to defects. In theory, the manufacturer has fixed the problem and it should run like new. But it's a risk (which is why they are cheaper). You can return it if it doesn't work of course, but returns are time consuming and annoying...Buy new to avoid headaches.

Tablets I would avoid: Amazon Kindle devices (these are the types of tablets your dad warned you about...it's not a "real" Android tablet), Archos, and Azpen (the latter 2 are actually decent devices for the price, but you won't get updates). I would ask the forum about any brand you don't recognize...off-brands are not necessarily bad, but they are less likely to get future updates.

 

[Dannirobern]

I'd recommend a vanilla android device (even a low-end one). Especially Nexus devices. They are more likely to get updates and more likely to run well. They are generally cheaper as well.

For cheap tablets I would look at the Nexus 7 (2012 version) - Retail they go for about $130. I think you can only get them on eBay now...retail stock is probably exhausted, but they are great tablets. The Asus MeMo Pad goes for around $100, and is a great tablet for that price. Asus is the same company that has made the last two nexus tablets (including the one here).

Do not buy refurbished if you can avoid it. A lot of refurbished products work great, but you are taking your chances. Refurbished does not mean store models or open box...it means products that were actually returned to the manufacturer due to defects. In theory, the manufacturer has fixed the problem and it should run like new. But it's a risk (which is why they are cheaper). You can return it if it doesn't work of course, but returns are time consuming and annoying...Buy new to avoid headaches.

Tablets I would avoid: Amazon Kindle devices (these are the types of tablets your dad warned you about...it's not a "real" Android tablet), Archos, and Azpen (the latter 2 are actually decent devices for the price, but you won't get updates). I would ask the forum about any brand you don't recognize...off-brands are not necessarily bad, but they are less likely to get future updates.

Okay I know you are doubting my dad's information but from what he tells me/read the future of android is risky. It may go in a very different direction next year. He heard Google will be discontinuing the Nexus line in favor of teaming with Motorola and LG (other companies may follow) to make devices that are specially Android or Google optimized (can't remember which). Samsung is supposed to not be a part of this. It's not known what Samsung will do but this article The Master Plan: Why Samsung Is Ditching Android - Forbes if I interpreted it correctly made it sound like Samsung wants to make it's own OS. Makes me worry that android devices are about to change so much that even top of the line devices may become obsolete with newer better devices right around the corner that operate Android very differently.
He thinks I should get an iPad :/ which I'm not totally opposed to. But with the new iPad air likely to be announced in 2 months or so I ought to probably wait.
He still thinks a device from a big and top selling company is best.
I'm just saying...I have problems escaping my parents' influence. They're very convincing

 

[Aquila]

Please excuse my, "lol" but this feels like the verge, bgr & mac rumors had a FUD party and then cnet crashed it and threw up all over everyone.

The most any of us can so is make recommendations and back them up with facts and opinions. At the end of the day it is up to each consumer to choose whose opinions they will seek out and resource and what their purchase will ultimately be. To the OP, your father is right to avoid no-name brands - and wrong about Nvidia being among those. I was the first in here to mention it and it is what I'm personally purchasing and of anything that's in the market today, nothing can touch it. That said, I don't mind if other people want other things.

Of your original list the only one IMO that is a mistake are the Samsung tablets. They're going to be great on the spec sheet, but fall way behind the shield and iPad in performance.

Having all these options is awesome and I agree with the idea of playing with the device in stores first. Here's the most important thing regarding our community's advice... Here there be tech nerds. Many here live and breathe these devices and want to help people avoid pitfalls they've encountered. I don't want to be presumptuous, but the other advice from your father represents and old and justified frustration with what was very wrong with the mobile scene ... those concerns are real and should be considered. I'd submit they're not applicable to the Nexus or Shield options but it is okay to be wary. Other than that, generalized anxiety like the Forbes magazine and some of the points brought up earlier are popular but grossly misguided perceptions of mainstream Android. If getting an iPad feels like hedging your bets, by all means: It is a GREAT option and a great device. IMO the Nexus and Shield are just much better choices.

XTNiT-1060 through spacetime. Android Central Moderator.

 

[A895]

Okay I know you are doubting my dad's information but from what he tells me/read the future of android is risky. It may go in a very different direction next year. He heard Google will be discontinuing the Nexus line in favor of teaming with Motorola and LG (other companies may follow) to make devices that are specially Android or Google optimized (can't remember which). Samsung is supposed to not be a part of this. It's not known what Samsung will do but this article The Master Plan: Why Samsung Is Ditching Android - Forbes if I interpreted it correctly made it sound like Samsung wants to make it's own OS. Makes me worry that android devices are about to change so much that even top of the line devices may become obsolete with newer better devices right around the corner that operate Android very differently.
He thinks I should get an iPad :/ which I'm not totally opposed to. But with the new iPad air likely to be announced in 2 months or so I ought to probably wait.
He still thinks a device from a big and top selling company is best.
I'm just saying...I have problems escaping my parents' influence. They're very convincing

And this is no offense, but whatever they are yelling you is completely incorrect, believe me when I say, US here on AC live and breathe Android, we all follow Android news, rumors, hell, everything VERY closely. Half the stuff your father claims is either outright FUD, or just misinformation.

We would never try to steer anyone wrong who comes into the forums for help. And iPad is not a bad choice, but the Nvidia Shield Tablet is a much better one.

 

[JeffDenver]

Okay I know you are doubting my dad's information but from what he tells me/read the future of android is risky.

As of this writing, 85% of all Smartphones and Tablets sold in the world are Android devices. - Android Accounts For 85% Of The 300M Smartphones Shipped In Q2

Android is not going anywhere in the foreseeable future. And that won't change unless something better comes along to replace it. iOS and Windows are not it.

It may go in a very different direction next year. He heard Google will be discontinuing the Nexus line in favor of teaming with Motorola and LG (other companies may follow) to make devices that are specially Android or Google optimized (can't remember which).

Learned from where? Who told him that?

Google Nexus 6 codenamed 'Shamu' built by Motorola with 5.9-inch display, fingerprint scanner, and November release date : PERSONAL TECH : Tech Times

and

http://bgr.com/2014/08/26/nexus-x-android-5-0-l/

Samsung is supposed to not be a part of this.

Samsung can do whatever they want. Android is Open Source...if Samsung wanted to, they could build their own OS off of it anytime they please, and not pay Google a dime. Android is not like iOS...iOS is directly owned and controlled by Apple. Android is an Open Source project that Google made, that anyone can modify and use, for any reason (even profit).

All that would change is that Samsung could not sell their devices with Google apps pre-installed. Thats it. Samsung could have already done this years ago if they wanted to...this is not a new situation. They have their own reasons for following Google's lead, and it has to do with profit.

People have been predicting Samsung will ditch Android for years. But Samsung knows full well their products will be far less appealing without Google's Apps, especially their Play store. Your Dad is reading rumors...not just rumors, but rumors that are not even new.

Here are a few quotes from your own source:

While rivals strip down the Android skins they apply to their smartphones and tablets, Samsung’s devices remain unfashionably coated in TouchWiz. Performance is hampered, memory is hogged by uninstallable custom apps and upgrades to the latest form of Android are therefore laborious and well off the pace.

Tizen is basically a Touchwiz OS...which is why it has been universally panned. Go read all the previews comparing Tizen watches to the Moto 360 and see which is getting more buzz.

Tizen is not new. It has been around since 2007. There are no successful Tizen products despite the fact it has been around even longer than Android. There is not even one. It's chances are even less now than in 2007...because now people have come to hate touchwiz, and they will associate Tizen with touchwiz (and rightly so).

The site you quoted is an editorial...it is that guy's opinion. And even then, he equivocates. The article does not actually predict success for Samsung with Tizen...if anything it kind of implies the opposite.

Makes me worry that android devices are about to change so much that even top of the line devices may become obsolete with newer better devices right around the corner that operate Android very differently.

If you are really worried about it, I would suggest not getting an Android product. I can guarantee you and your dad are the only ones worried about it though. No one in the industry seriously expects Tizen to go anywhere.

He thinks I should get an iPad :/ which I'm not totally opposed to. But with the new iPad air likely to be announced in 2 months or so I ought to probably wait.

I actually recommend Apple products for people under the following conditions; 1) you have to NOT care about what it CAN'T do (and there is a lot it can't do...but not everyone will care about those things), and 2) You need deep pockets. Nothing from Apple is cheap, even peripherals. If you fit those two criteria, you should buy an Apple product IMO.

He still thinks a device from a big and top selling company is best.

Blackberry used to be big and top selling. Think about that.

 

[JeffDenver]

 

[Dannirobern]

As of this writing, 85% of all Smartphones and Tablets sold in the world are Android devices. - Android Accounts For 85% Of The 300M Smartphones Shipped In Q2

Android is not going anywhere in the foreseeable future. And that won't change unless something better comes along to replace it. iOS and Windows are not it.


Learned from where? Who told him that?

Google Nexus 6 codenamed 'Shamu' built by Motorola with 5.9-inch display, fingerprint scanner, and November release date : PERSONAL TECH : Tech Times

and

Nexus X Android 5.0 L: specs and seatures revealed in AnTuTu | BGR


Samsung can do whatever they want. Android is Open Source...if Samsung wanted to, they could build their own OS off of it anytime they please, and not pay Google a dime. Android is not like iOS...iOS is directly owned and controlled by Apple. Android is an Open Source project that Google made, that anyone can modify and use, for any reason (even profit).

All that would change is that Samsung could not sell their devices with Google apps pre-installed. Thats it. Samsung could have already done this years ago if they wanted to...this is not a new situation. They have their own reasons for following Google's lead, and it has to do with profit.

People have been predicting Samsung will ditch Android for years. But Samsung knows full well their products will be far less appealing without Google's Apps, especially their Play store. Your Dad is reading rumors...not just rumors, but rumors that are not even new.

Here are a few quotes from your own source:



Tizen is basically a Touchwiz OS...which is why it has been universally panned. Go read all the previews comparing Tizen watches to the Moto 360 and see which is getting more buzz.

Tizen is not new. It has been around since 2007. There are no successful Tizen products despite the fact it has been around even longer than Android. There is not even one. It's chances are even less now than in 2007...because now people have come to hate touchwiz, and they will associate Tizen with touchwiz (and rightly so).

The site you quoted is an editorial...it is that guy's opinion. And even then, he equivocates. The article does not actually predict success for Samsung with Tizen...if anything it kind of implies the opposite.


If you are really worried about it, I would suggest not getting an Android product. I can guarantee you and your dad are the only ones worried about it though. No one in the industry seriously expects Tizen to go anywhere.


I actually recommend Apple products for people under the following conditions; 1) you have to NOT care about what it CAN'T do (and there is a lot it can't do...but not everyone will care about those things), and 2) You need deep pockets. Nothing from Apple is cheap, even peripherals. If you fit those two criteria, you should buy an Apple product IMO.


Blackberry used to be big and top selling. Think about that.

Hummm ok that makes sense I guess. It would be kind of extreme to just drop support for a bunch of Android devices.
What really matters most to me in a tablet is that it will receive good support. That was most of why Apple was so appealing. iOS 8 is the first version that won't support iPhone 4 which I have, which was released 4 years ago. It would be great to have a tablet which years from now still worked well and was receiving updates.
Is there a way to find out how well the Shield is doing with sales? Just checked Best Buy and at the moment you can pick it up in stores but you can't order it...Odd.
But if the future of Android isn't as perilous as I thought, once again I have lots of things to choose from.
I guess another part of the reason I was looking to the new iPads was that I heard they could include the multi-window feature like the Tab s which would be real useful.