Not throttling but Optimization

slayer91790

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Take that back....2GB's and above is consider heavy user!?!?!:mad: On a 4G phone is hard to stay under 2GB's when everything is over the cloud and have access to netflix! I was thinkg like 5GB's or more was a heavy user!
 

realitydigg

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It specifically says that 4G is not affected. It doesn't say of the 2GB is while on 3G only, so you might argue that you could run up 2GB on 4G then switch over to 3G in a congested area and see your bandwidth slowed, but at that point 3G will seem so slow :) that you might not even notice it ...
 

anon(394005)

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Yah, this part pretty much sums it up:

Will I be affected by Network Optimization?
Only a small percent of customers will be affected. To be affected, you must be:

•A data customer on an unlimited data plan;
•Have a 3G Verizon Wireless device (if you have a 4G LTE device you will not be impacted); AND (added emphasis)
•Among the top 5% of data users in a given month.

Then, you will only be affected:

•When you are on the 3G network; and
•When you are connected to a congested cell site.
 

jordanmarx

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I am on a thunderbolt in a 3g area...I should be getting close to 1mbps and am getting half that on a good day...I was mostly on 1x for the past three weeks until I called the verizon rep and told them my data was slow...I tried everything, hard reset, cycling power, airplane, lte toggle...nothing worked until the conversation with the verizon rep, now, I get 3g, not great 3g but better than 1x. The thing that frustrates me is that I am not rooted, I have an unlimited data plan AND a mifi subscription for ANOTHER 30 bucks a month. In essence, I already am paying for data twice, and I don't complain about it, the rules are the rules. But for someone like me to get throttled...it really irritates me. I've always played by the rules on their network and I feel like I am being taken advantage of. I now pretty much have to stay under 2 gigabites to get good data service even though I am on an unlimited plan.
 

dpham00

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good thing it doesn't affect 4g yet, i have used over 15gb in less than a week according to mvw.
 

recDNA

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I sit and listen to sports radio on my phone much of the day while I post to forums, look up stuff on the internet, check email and so on. It's the whole point of a 4g phone with unlimited network plan. VZW should just increase their bandwidth output if they want to keep signing us up! I don't want to hear about throttling data usage when vzw happily puts all sorts of stuff on our phones we can't delete. The hypocrisy of crowing about Netflix availability while whining about people using too much data is staggering.
 

Mortiel

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This is the criteria for "optimization" to be implemented on your account:

1. You must have a 3G only device
2. You must be on unlimited data, or a retired mobile broadband internet promo.
3. You have to be in the top 5% of data users in your market.

Even if you have a 4G device in a 3G area, you are technically exempt from throttling. Bear in mind that the measurements for top 5% go by market regions. Busier markets have heavier users in most cases. Lastly, if you are on any data plan, be it for your smartphone or mobile broadband, that is currently in use, you are exempt from throttling (i.e. $30/2GB smartphone data, $50/5GB MBB tablet internet plan).
 
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dpham00

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Even though throttling doesn't affect 4g users yet, i'm assuming it will affect 4g users on unlimited data at some point in the future.
 

Mortiel

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Even though throttling doesn't affect 4g users yet, i'm assuming it will affect 4g users on unlimited data at some point in the future.

Doubtful. The reason 4G is not throttled is because it has about 10 times the bandwidth. On a single stack on EV-DO is supports a max of 10 simultaneous users, to which there are multiple stacks per cell site. Current LTE technology supports 100 simultaneous users per stack.

Verizon could go two ways: Either they have 1/10th the 4G towers as 3G towers, or support 10 times as many customers. Currently, we are attempting to compromise in between by theoretically using 1/5th the stacks and support 5 times the customers. Doing this could lower maintenance costs and bring in more customers, which could make prices lower or prevent future price hikes.


2gig is a heavy user? I am at 1.2gig for the month, and I haven't really done much of anything.....

Based upon whatever testing Verizon think they did, they somehow came up with the idea that 90% of smartphone users use 2 GB of data or less per month. Obvious, the majority of the people on AC are on the higher end of data users, so the sample here is slanted, but I am still not sure if their figures were accurate, especially regarding 4G phone users.

I am certainly not the heaviest user I know, but I still manage to use in excess of 7-8 GB per month, and even my fiance that has a Thunderbolt uses 3-4 GB, and she is not even close to a heavy user.
 

K_Daddy

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This assault on the unlimited plans will continue to shrink your ability until you switch. The current quilt trip method will get worse. 2GB is a heavy user? If they want people to switch they should offer 1gb for $15 a month. Right now I have unlimited 4G, netflix, and lots of time to use it. Guess I'm gonna be the bad person who's using all the data.
 

FrankXS

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The reason 4G is not throttled is because it has about 10 times the bandwidth.
I disagree with this. I believe the reason 4G is not throttled is because 99.9 percent of the 4G users are on tiered (metered) data plans (or, it will soon be 99.9 percent as us unlimited 4G "grandfathers" are replaced by newer 4G users). No need to throttle for such a small 4G unlimited user base. Most 4G users will be paying for what they use via tiered plans. It's the "data hogs" on legacy 3G unlimited plans that can be a problem. And 3G has a ton of those. 4G, not so much.

-Frank
 
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FrankXS

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Based upon whatever testing Verizon think they did, they somehow came up with the idea that 90% of smartphone users use 2 GB of data or less per month. Obvious, the majority of the people on AC are on the higher end of data users, so the sample here is slanted, but I am still not sure if their figures were accurate, especially regarding 4G phone users.

I am certainly not the heaviest user I know, but I still manage to use in excess of 7-8 GB per month, and even my fiance that has a Thunderbolt uses 3-4 GB, and she is not even close to a heavy user.
Yeah, we here on AC are definitely the exception, as compared to the whole of the VZW customer base. I will say however, I don't use very much. I did an experiment for the last two billing cycles. As I've mentioned I'm an IT consultant. I am on a Tethered laptop every single day doing something. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Usually around an hour total. Mostly web use. For the last two months I have specifically avoided the Wifi alternatives I used to use and made it a point to always use my MHS. Results? For the last two months I have used right at 2GB (~2.01-2.3 or so). Admittedly, on occasion I have to download large files, but that didn't happen in the last two months. Personally, I find it easy to believe that the "average" VZW data user uses less then 2GB. Also admittedly, I use the phone almost exclusively for business. Seldom do I use it for pleasure (i.e. streaming movies, etc.). But, again, occasionally I do.

What I find I like so much about 4G is the data speed, not the data quantity. I use only a little more quantity than I used to use on 3G. But it sure is a lot faster :) To me, the 4G experience is about speed. It didn't really change my data consumption that much.

-Frank
 

Mortiel

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I disagree with this. I believe the reason 4G is not throttled is because 99.9 percent of the 4G users are on tiered (metered) data plans (or, it will soon be 99.9 percent as us unlimited 4G "grandfathers" are replaced by newer 4G users). No need to throttle for such a small 4G unlimited user base. Most 4G users will be paying for what they use via tiered plans. It's the "data hogs" on legacy 3G unlimited plans that can be a problem. And 3G has a ton of those. 4G, not so much.

-Frank

The percentage of 4G users on unlimited plans is greater than you think, but that is irrelevant. It is not really due to who is on unlimited versus tiered data, but more about available bandwidth versus amount of users currently on 4G. This is how it was outlined to me last December and reiterated again in April, long before unlimited smartphone data plans were gone. Optimization has been going on for quite some time, but most people never even saw it.

Now in the future when everyone is on 4G, then yes I would say your theory will be correct, and likely we may see some "optimization" occurring.
 

FrankXS

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Now in the future when everyone is on 4G, then yes I would say your theory will be correct, and likely we may see some "optimization" occurring.
Yeah, I guess that is what I was getting at. And, since 4G is really only 5-1/2 months old (since the release of the first 4G phone), it won't be too long before the "future" of 4G users is here. :)

-Frank
 

Mortiel

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Yeah, I guess that is what I was getting at. And, since 4G is really only 5-1/2 months old (since the release of the first 4G phone), it won't be too long before the "future" of 4G users is here. :)

-Frank

Well, here's the thing:

Wave 1 is rolling out LTE to cover the current EV-DO footprint, which is expected to be done by 2013. I highly doubt we will see any 4G throttling during this period.

Wave 2 will be phasing out 1xRTT/PCS CDMA sites. There is currently no timeline for when this is expected to be completed, but many of us expect it to start between 2012-2015. No throttling here.

Wave 3 will be upgrading LTE to LTE Advanced, the true 4G. This is supposed to provide 1 Gbps downlink to a stationary device and 100 Mbps to a mobile device. This also doubles the current LTE bandwidth. I expect this to start somewhere between 2014-2017. New devices will roll out for this, and thus starting a similar situation to what is occurring now. I see about a 30-50% chance legacy LTE devices may get throttled around this time, depending on network congestion.

Wave 4 will be phasing out EV-DO sites, which I think might start around 2020. Converging all Verizon customers onto the existing LTE/LTE Advanced network will increase congestion a lot. I see a 90% chance of legacy LTE device being throttled, and a 30% chance of LTE Advanced devices getting throttled.

So the chance your Thunderbolt of getting throttled any time soon is highly unlikely.

To all you VZW 3G device owners on unlimited data plans that signed up for service anytime before 02/02/11, expect to see some more intensive throttling in highly congested areas starting September 15th.
 

TauntingBull

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I mostly (95% of the time) forcefully ride the 3G band to save battery life in the TB... I think Ill need to stop doing that....

And it will be interesting to see if VZ grandfathers the Unlimited 4G data plans when they move to LTE Advanced....
 

Mortiel

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I mostly (95% of the time) forcefully ride the 3G band to save battery life in the TB... I think Ill need to stop doing that....

And it will be interesting to see if VZ grandfathers the Unlimited 4G data plans when they move to LTE Advanced....

Based upon history, it is possible. I'll believe it when I see it, as Verizon really wants unlimited data gone.

And even if you are riding 3G, throttling will not touch you. Literally, you cannot be throttled if you have a 4G device, regardless of what band you use.
 

Bond32

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Based upon history, it is possible. I'll believe it when I see it, as Verizon really wants unlimited data gone.

And even if you are riding 3G, throttling will not touch you. Literally, you cannot be throttled if you have a 4G device, regardless of what band you use.

How do you know we can't be throttled?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
 

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