Question on OTA Update

[JeffDenver]

I have a rooted Nexus 4. It is completely stock (all original apps are there too). I have never installed a new ROM on it. Only change I have made is the kernel (franco).

Can I use the OTA? Will I have to revert to a stock state to upgrade it?

 

[digitalslacker]

so when you unlocked and rooted...if you also either manually installed a custom recovery or used a toolkit and it installed the recovery then you can't install an OTA
beyond that I THINK it might overwrite the kernel and it probably will remove root.

at the very least i'd back up your apps and get them off of your phone
then if something breaks you can at least restore them later after you fix it

 

[JeffDenver]

I used a toolkit to root. I am guessing I have a custom recovery. Can I restore the stock recovery?

 

[digitalslacker]

Not with the toolkit. Might be able to find it but your best bet would probably be to backup with like tibu. Restore with the toolkit...take the ota and then reroot and restore you apps. but there isn't an ota out...maybe soon...maybe not for a while...we don't know. 4.2.2 is the most current on the nexus 4

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[JeffDenver]

Not with the toolkit. Might be able to find it but your best bet would probably be to backup with like tibu. Restore with the toolkit...take the ota and then reroot and restore you apps. but there isn't an ota out...maybe soon...maybe not for a while...we don't know. 4.2.2 is the most current on the nexus 4

Can I update the OS manually? Will I need to restore to stock to update to the latest OS every time?

 

[Rizy7]

First of all, you can accept an OTA update with a custom recovery. I accepted the OTA update from 4.2.1 to 4.2.2 while I had TWRP recovery. Second, as you have a custom kernel, you will need to restore it back to stock kernel to accept future OTA updates. Thirdly, most toolkits usually have advanced options to restore things like stock kernel but it can be easily found anyway. As a point of reference, the update can be flashed manually and it is most commonly done manually by people who dont want to wait for Google as they do staged rollouts of new updates. Finally, yes you will need to return to stock everytime, but if you have apps such as TiBu it wont be too difficult and it would just be like switching between roms.

 

[JeffDenver]

Where do you get TiBu at? I have never heard of it.

 

[digitalslacker]

Can I update the OS manually? Will I need to restore to stock to update to the latest OS every time?

So i'll clarify a little bit now that I'm at a computer and typing is faster.

OTA's are typically what are called Differential updates. What that means is that they aren't an complete re-install, they contain only what has changed since the last update. Normally that's fine because you don't want to re-download and re-install a whole OS when all that's changed is a fraction of it. But when you are hacking up your phone you can run into problems because doing a differential update on an OS the isn't the one you are expecting leaves you ripe for problems. To prevent that Google looks at the "state" of your system and if it passes checks, the OTA is allowed to install.

When you have a custom recovery one of those checks fails but even simply installing root apps that might change how the system behaves or functions could trip another check and prevent the OTA from installing. All of that is simply to say that going back to the old recovery might not be enough to allow the OTA to install and even if it is...you'll still have to re-root.

So back to your latest question. Is there a way to "manually" install the OS, yes there is. It's called a system img and they are posted by Google usually days to weeks after the latest version is released. These images are our safety net, they are what allow us to completely return to stock when, not if, we completely screw something up.

These images are what the toolkits use to "restore" your phone. In fact all any toolkit is, is a user interface on top of all of these commands the phone already has. it just makes using them a little easier because they are button clicks instead of command line.

Now back to your immediate situation, you want to take an OTA update...Well right now there isn't an OTA so you don't have to worry about it yet and have some time to plan.

This is what I would do in your situation.

1) Install Tibu and back up all my apps, offload them to a PC or to DropBox so I have them. Just keeping them on the sdcard won't work because that'll get wiped if you restore the phone.
2) Wait for the OTA and try to install it. Best case, it installs, you re-root and you are done. Worst case it jacks your phone and you have to restore it. What is most likely though is that it won't install.
3) if it doesn't install or it wipes your phone you have a few options. I would probably completely return to stock 4.2.2 and then wait for the OTA (or is someone has the OTA zip you can install it manually with the stock recovery, theyll post it hrs after the OTA hits and it'll have instructions. You'll need to be stock to install it for all the reasons i said before. It's still the OTA its just the manual install)
4) Once it's installed I would re-root....move the TiBu backup over to the phone and restore the apps i don't want to reconfigure again.

You could also just try to install the OTA...if it fails...wait for the images to hit and then do a full restore up to the new version but that would require patience and I do not have that It also takes a while for the toolkits to update with the newest images.

That's my two cents man. Bottom line is that these phones are pretty damn forgiving so no matter how you proceed or what you screw up, as long as you have a good TiBu backup the most you lose is your time and maybe some hair

Don't hold your breath for an OTA either. They take longer than everyone wants every time. I'm sure it's coming but its not uncommon to hear "OTA today!" 3-5 times before it actually hits and then it's a staged rollout so you may not see it right away anyway. And right now we barely know anything about the next version so no one really knows what they are excited about, other than rumors.

Hope that helps!

 

[digitalslacker]

TiBu = Titanium Backup
it's in the play store

 

[digitalslacker]

First of all, you can accept an OTA update with a custom recovery. I accepted the OTA update from 4.2.1 to 4.2.2 while I had TWRP recovery.

As I understand it, that depends on what's changed in the OTA. The general guidance I've heard has always been no custom recovery. And I personally have taken OTA's on the N4 and the Gnex that wouldn't install with a custom recovery.

But yes,...the reality is that isn't not impossible. I also don't use TWRP so that might be the difference. Curious now though....

 

[JeffDenver]

TiBu = Titanium Backup
it's in the play store

Oh, I already have that. Bought it looong ago, but havn't used it recently. I didn't recognize the abbreviation.

How involved is it to completely wipe and return to stock? Is it as easy as a factory reset? I know this will not restore the stock recovery, but will it restore everything else to stock?

 

[digitalslacker]

How involved is it to completely wipe and return to stock? Is it as easy as a factory reset? I know this will not restore the stock recovery, but will it restore everything else to stock?

A Factory reset is a type of wipe, I think it wipes cache and data partitions but i could be wrong about that. No, that will not restore the stock recovery, it keeps the /system and /boot partitions in tact.
when you use a restore (via the toolkit or the system images) though that will flatten the entire phone. It'll be in the same state it was when you took it out of the box. It restores all the partitions to stock.

The toolkits can restore the phone to stock for you or you can manually do it with the system images. It's not hard. Takes maybe 15 min give or take and then you just re-setup the phone.

 

[JeffDenver]

A Factory reset is a type of wipe, I think it wipes cache and data partitions but i could be wrong about that. No, that will not restore the stock recovery, it keeps the /system and /boot partitions in tact.
when you use a restore (via the toolkit or the system images) though that will flatten the entire phone. It'll be in the same state it was when you took it out of the box. It restores all the partitions to stock.

The toolkits can restore the phone to stock for you or you can manually do it with the system images. It's not hard. Takes maybe 15 min give or take and then you just re-setup the phone.

So if I understand correctly, all I need to restore everything to stock is simply the 4.22 JB image, right?

Is this already available? Are there instructions somewhere on how to flash it? (I assume I can't flash it like a ROM because it would replace the recovery as well)

 

[digitalslacker]

So if I understand correctly, all I need to restore everything to stock is simply the 4.22 JB image, right?

Is this already available? Are there instructions somewhere on how to flash it? (I assume I can't flash it like a ROM because it would replace the recovery as well)

the 4.2.2. images have been available for months and yes they are really all you need along with some setup
They have a great thread here on it
http://forums.androidcentral.com/ne...3923-guide-nexus-4-factory-image-restore.html

but no it's not flashed like a ROM. you hook the phone to your computer and use the SDK commands to push files to the phone that way. There's some setup involved
The toolkits do the same thing but there is value i think in learning the manual way if you plan on messing with your phone.

 

[JeffDenver]

Ok, so the process is similar to when I rooted. I will need to hook it up to a PC and jump through some hoops to restore the factory defaults. I think I understand now. I have saved the link.

Thanks for the advice. I know there is no OTA coming soon...I just wanted to understand how this stuff works ahead of time so I am not learning the details at the last minute.

 

[Rizy7]

As I understand it, that depends on what's changed in the OTA. The general guidance I've heard has always been no custom recovery. And I personally have taken OTA's on the N4 and the Gnex that wouldn't install with a custom recovery.

But yes,...the reality is that isn't not impossible. I also don't use TWRP so that might be the difference. Curious now though....

Before it would not be possible to accept OTA updates with a custom recovery but it seems now it is. You are not the first to still hold on to the belief that the ota update wont work with a custom recovery. Maybe it is just one of them things that people are not aware of. But yes I'm sure the update zip was posted on the xda forums which could be flashed through recovery anyway. The only difference that would remain the way I see it is if you got the update ota or manually downloaded it.

Ok, so the process is similar to when I rooted. I will need to hook it up to a PC and jump through some hoops to restore the factory defaults. I think I understand now. I have saved the link.

Thanks for the advice. I know there is no OTA coming soon...I just wanted to understand how this stuff works ahead of time so I am not learning the details at the last minute.

If you are using NRT toolkit then it is very easy to get back to stock but your phone will be wiped so backing up is essential. As was pointed out its always best to know how to do things manually. At least learning how things work behind the interface will help you a lot. Fastboot is used to flash the stock images. First commands are entered to clear the existing images from the system. This is normally where the fastboot erase userdata command is used which wipes your data. Advanced knowledge of fastboot could mean you dont end up erasing the userdata part but only the parts you absolutely need to. After erasing what happens is the stock images are flashed. If you have any problems with your phone this is the process which usually takes place to get your device up and running again also,

 

[digitalslacker]

Before it would not be possible to accept OTA updates with a custom recovery but it seems now it is. You are not the first to still hold on to the belief that the ota update wont work with a custom recovery. Maybe it is just one of them things that people are not aware of. But yes I'm sure the update zip was posted on the xda forums which could be flashed through recovery anyway. The only difference that would remain the way I see it is if you got the update ota or manually downloaded it.

I'll give it a shot when 4.3 drops...makes things easier. I can still imagine situations though where it'd be a bad idea to update that way.
I wonder if it's just a TWRP thing or if CWM lets you....that could also be the distinction.
Good to know though.

 

[fernandezhjr]

I'm sure some dev will release a rooted version of the updated rom that can be flashed in recovery. They are usually really quick with that. Why would you want to unroot, only to have to root again?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[JeffDenver]

I'm sure some dev will release a rooted version of the updated rom that can be flashed in recovery. They are usually really quick with that. Why would you want to unroot, only to have to root again?

I'd prefer to remain stock. I have done the Romming thing before, but have come to like stock Android a lot more. In my experience ROMs tend to have quirks and idiosyncrasies that stock does not.

Also, I will not have to wait for the DEVs to incorporate the new version into their ROMs. I can install it immediately.

 

[fernandezhjr]

I'd prefer to remain stock. I have done the Romming thing before, but have come to like stock Android a lot more. In my experience ROMs tend to have quirks and idiosyncrasies that stock does not.

Also, I will not have to wait for the DEVs to incorporate the new version into their ROMs. I can install it immediately.

That is what I was referring to. A rooted version of the stock rom, nothing changed, just pure stock. All devs would need is a dump of the stock rom. They root it, deodex or not, and then it is flashed in recovery. You do have to have a custom recovery to flash. Typically, you will see rooted stock roms show up within 24 hrs of release, sooner if there is a leak.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta