Snapdragon 8 Gen 3’s on-device AI demands the question of why Google Tensor exists

[I Can Be Your Hero]

Excellent article from 9to5google regarding the Tensor G3 in comparison to the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 which looks like its doing á lot of AI things that Tensor does (and doesn't do), on-device.

Ever since I saw the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 showcase and hands on with a Qualcomm reference device, I've been extremely impressed with what Qualcomm are bringing to the table with AI, totally blowing the Tensor G3 out of the water, raising the question; what's the point of Tensor? When there is a faster, more efficient chip, with better reception, which also has extremely strong AI capabilties - what benefit does the Tensor bring? Snapdragon chips are substantially faster and more efficient than Tensor chips, due to better design as well as being manufactured by TSMC rather than Samsung.

Having the Pixel 8 Pro for a couple of weeks now, Tensor G3 is a couple of generations behind Snapdragon in performance and you can really feel it. I also still have my Galaxy S23U and zipping around the phones, going in and out of apps, firing up and exiting out of apps, the Galaxy is just straight up faster. It also has better battery life, with my usage getting an additional 2-3 hours of screen time, which makes a big difference in my usage. I thought the AI features looked pretty cool with the Pixel 8 Pro, though a lot of which aren't even available yet, and I'm not sure will even release in certian regions, and will likely rollout to other phones (eg, I'm sure Magic Editor will become available to anyone with Google Photos and Google One subscription down the track).

Now we have the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3, which has an extremely impressive suite of AI tech that has been demonstrated, and a lot of it is on-device, rather than pushing the load into the cloud like Google does for a number of it's AI functions. Things like object eraser in video, night vision in video, generative fill if you want to make your image larger, it's doing photo unblur and a bunch of other features. Google who have been banging on about AI and machine learning and large language models for what feels like forever, have had the competition catch up and seemingly surpass what they're able to do.

So I'm just left wondering where are the actual benefits of Tensor are? 7 years of updates is nice, though I doubt the phone will last that long and it's already a processor that is slow/inefficient today, I can't imagine how it'll be in 5+ years from now. I get that it's cheaper for Google to go with Tensor than Snapdragon, but that doesn't benefit me as the end user. I just wish Google ditched Tensor and went with Snapdragon chips. The Pixel phones could be orders of magnitude better imo.

 

[gendo667]

Get ready for a price hike.

 

[I Can Be Your Hero]

Get ready for a price hike.

It would happen anyway; Tensor or Snapdragon. 8 Pro is $999 USD, I can see it jumping up to $1,099 USD next year or the year after. Eventually hitting parity with Apple's iPhone Pro Max pricing.

 

[mustang7757]

Excellent article from 9to5google regarding the Tensor G3 in comparison to the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 which looks like its doing á lot of AI things that Tensor does (and doesn't do), on-device.

Ever since I saw the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 showcase and hands on with a Qualcomm reference device, I've been extremely impressed with what Qualcomm are bringing to the table with AI, totally blowing the Tensor G3 out of the water, raising the question; what's the point of Tensor? When there is a faster, more efficient chip, with better reception, which also has extremely strong AI capabilties - what benefit does the Tensor bring? Snapdragon chips are substantially faster and more efficient than Tensor chips, due to better design as well as being manufactured by TSMC rather than Samsung.

Having the Pixel 8 Pro for a couple of weeks now, Tensor G3 is a couple of generations behind Snapdragon in performance and you can really feel it. I also still have my Galaxy S23U and zipping around the phones, going in and out of apps, firing up and exiting out of apps, the Galaxy is just straight up faster. It also has better battery life, with my usage getting an additional 2-3 hours of screen time, which makes a big difference in my usage. I thought the AI features looked pretty cool with the Pixel 8 Pro, though a lot of which aren't even available yet, and I'm not sure will even release in certian regions, and will likely rollout to other phones (eg, I'm sure Magic Editor will become available to anyone with Google Photos and Google One subscription down the track).

Now we have the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3, which has an extremely impressive suite of AI tech that has been demonstrated, and a lot of it is on-device, rather than pushing the load into the cloud like Google does for a number of it's AI functions. Things like object eraser in video, night vision in video, generative fill if you want to make your image larger, it's doing photo unblur and a bunch of other features. Google who have been banging on about AI and machine learning and large language models for what feels like forever, have had the competition catch up and seemingly surpass what they're able to do.

So I'm just left wondering where are the actual benefits of Tensor are? 7 years of updates is nice, though I doubt the phone will last that long and it's already a processor that is slow/inefficient today, I can't imagine how it'll be in 5+ years from now. I get that it's cheaper for Google to go with Tensor than Snapdragon, but that doesn't benefit me as the end user. I just wish Google ditched Tensor and went with Snapdragon chips. The Pixel phones could be orders of magnitude better imo.

The build up for Google tensor chip is they want complete control and that will/ should happen by Tensor 5 so about 2 years from now , Google machine learning/AI is front row above everyone at the moment not just for pictures just about everything you do on the Device. Give it a little more time they are on track. Yes next year's phone will have a little more AI but next year Google will also go from what is already presented.
Going in and out of apps and overall OS is very fast and fluid compared with my other devices it has UFS 3.1 12gb ram and probably the best display on the market right now with highest peak brightness
The Google chip will get there it's 3 version , Samsung chips weren't there in the beginning it took long long time before it got where it was last few years.

 

[fuzzylumpkin]

The build up for Google tensor chip is they want complete control and that will/ should happen by Tensor 5 so about 2 years from now , Google machine learning/AI is front row above everyone at the moment not just for pictures just about everything you do on the Device. Give it a little more time they are on track. Yes next year's phone will have a little more AI but next year Google will also go from what is already presented.
Going in and out of apps and overall OS is very fast and fluid compared with my other devices it has UFS 3.1 12gb ram and probably the best display on the market right now with highest peak brightness
The Google chip will get there it's 3 version , Samsung chips weren't there in the beginning it took long long time before it got where it was last few years.

Yeah, everything will be great by 2025. Is there any actual reason to believe that, though? Beyond Google gaslighting us and trying to convince us that "I can change, baby! just gibve me one more chance!".

And don't get me started on holding features back from the standard 8 and the Fold. They worked so hard to fix Android fragmentation, and then fragmented their own product!

 

[Bkdodger1]

Until I see another device running the AI the way It's currently running with Google then I'll make a judgment...

 

[ahiqar]

Until I see another device running the AI the way It's currently running with Google then I'll make a judgment...

I kind of agree with this wait-and-see approach.

 

[mustang7757]

Yeah, everything will be great by 2025. Is there any actual reason to believe that, though? Beyond Google gaslighting us and trying to convince us that "I can change, baby! just gibve me one more chance!".

And don't get me started on holding features back from the standard 8 and the Fold. They worked so hard to fix Android fragmentation, and then fragmented their own product!

They never mentioned "I can change" they left a very transparent view because they want control of the chip and software and they are not competing in who has the best spec war.

Which features?

I get it they have left a bad taste in your mouth I had problems with 7pro but I like their direction and the OS

 

[chevyman29]

its the same reason apple started using in house chips , and the same reason apple is making there own modem, $$$
google and apple are tired of paying royalties to qualcomm

 

[Technerd71]

Terrible article that focuses on one metric on a chip that isn't even available yet while ignoring the real reason Google went it's own way.

First off, The Tensor is in it's infancy compared to Qualcomm SD and Apple a series. A17 says it all. Google could really improve something if it had 17 generations to draw on.

Second there are numerous benefits to designing a custom chip vs an off the shelf chips. One of which pertains to firmware updates. Google could have never gotten Qualcomm to agree to 7 years of total firmware updates and security updates. Being able to customize all of the parameters of a chip to match the vision of Google like Tensor to it's own hardware is a value. Qualcomm licensing agreements are terrible and I might even say predatory.

So Google can design a chip to match it's need rather than fitting a generic chip to hopefully match them. Google can save money on licensing and extend software support. Google can use a cheaper fab like Samsung and pass the savings onto their customers.

And finally Google can produce a custom TPU and continue to improve it. Qualcomm may have a better TPU for the 8 gen 3 and we will see what happens in the Tensor G4 which would be the appropriate comparison. The Tensor G3 is better in AI than the 8 gen 2 so it wins vs the available to currently buy competition.

If you want to twist facts based on things that don't exist yet then I guess it is a good article.....

 

[dc52ltr]

Terrible article that focuses on one metric on a chip that isn't even available yet while ignoring the real reason Google went it's own way.

First off, The Tensor is in it's infancy compared to Qualcomm SD and Apple a series. A17 says it all. Google could really improve something if it had 17 generations to draw on.

Second there are numerous benefits to designing a custom chip vs an off the shelf chips. One of which pertains to firmware updates. Google could have never gotten Qualcomm to agree to 7 years of total firmware updates and security updates. Being able to customize all of the parameters of a chip to match the vision of Google like Tensor to it's own hardware is a value. Qualcomm licensing agreements are terrible and I might even say predatory.

So Google can design a chip to match it's need rather than fitting a generic chip to hopefully match them. Google can save money on licensing and extend software support. Google can use a cheaper fab like Samsung and pass the savings onto their customers.

And finally Google can produce a custom TPU and continue to improve it. Qualcomm may have a better TPU for the 8 gen 3 and we will see what happens in the Tensor G4 which would be the appropriate comparison. The Tensor G3 is better in AI than the 8 gen 2 so it wins vs the available to currently buy competition.

If you want to twist facts based on things that don't exist yet then I guess it is a good article.....

I like what you're saying, simple and straightforward explanation. Am far happier that Google are doing their own thing. Yes it's relatively new to the phone chip world but is certainly going in the right direction...

 

[I Can Be Your Hero]

Terrible article that focuses on one metric on a chip that isn't even available yet while ignoring the real reason Google went it's own way.

The Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 is in the Xiaomi 14 which has been released.

First off, The Tensor is in it's infancy compared to Qualcomm SD and Apple a series. A17 says it all. Google could really improve something if it had 17 generations to draw on.

I don't think that's an acceptable argument. As a consumer I don't care if this is Google's 1st attempt at a chip or their 100th. They should be putting or chips that are competitive with other chips in other phones. The general consumer doesn't, and shouldn't have to know that Tensor is in its infancy, nor should they give any leniency for it. These aren't cheap phones, yet the most important part of it is.

The chips are just objectively worse than the competition. Single core performance, multi core performance, battery efficiency, modem reception and now, the one thing I was hoping it would be strong in, AI, it gets stomped by Qualcomm who haven't been banging on and on about AI, machine learning, large language models like Google have for a decade now.

Second there are numerous benefits to designing a custom chip vs an off the shelf chips. One of which pertains to firmware updates. Google could have never gotten Qualcomm to agree to 7 years of total firmware updates and security updates. Being able to customize all of the parameters of a chip to match the vision of Google like Tensor to it's own hardware is a value. Qualcomm licensing agreements are terrible and I might even say predatory.

Sure, 7 years of updates is nice, but other phones offer 4 years of updates which is plenty for the vast majority of consumers. There's no way the Pixel 8 will even last 7 years and by that time, whoever did have the Pixel 8 would have moved on to another phone.

Google can design a chip to match it's need rather than fitting a generic chip to hopefully match them. Google can save money on licensing and extend software support. Google can use a cheaper fab like Samsung and pass the savings onto their customers.

And finally Google can produce a custom TPU and continue to improve it. Qualcomm may have a better TPU for the 8 gen 3 and we will see what happens in the Tensor G4 which would be the appropriate comparison. The Tensor G3 is better in AI than the 8 gen 2 so it wins vs the available to currently buy competition.

If you want to twist facts based on things that don't exist yet then I guess it is a good article.....

I mean are Google designing a chip to match it's need? Speaking of the AI performance alone, a lot of it is being done on servers rather than locally on the phone, so these AI features like Magic Editor, wallpaper creator video boost etc can be done with any chip on the phone. And we've seen the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 totally outperform the Tensor G3 in pretty amazing AI features that's done locally on the chip - not off on some server that any could be done with any processor.

I don't know why the Tensor G4 would be better comparison. The Tensor G3 and Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 have released within weeks of one another, so instead of comparing the October 2023 Google chip to the October 2023 Qualcomm chip, you want to compare the October 2023 Qualcomm chip to the October 2024 Google chip? Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[fuzzylumpkin]

The Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 is in the Xiaomi 14 which has been released.


I don't think that's an acceptable argument. As a consumer I don't care if this is Google's 1st attempt at a chip or their 100th. They should be putting or chips that are competitive with other chips in other phones. The general consumer doesn't, and shouldn't have to know that Tensor is in its infancy, nor should they give any leniency for it. These aren't cheap phones, yet the most important part of it is.

The chips are just objectively worse than the competition. Single core performance, multi core performance, battery efficiency, modem reception and now, the one thing I was hoping it would be strong in, AI, it gets stomped by Qualcomm who haven't been banging on and on about AI, machine learning, large language models like Google have for a decade now.

Sure, 7 years of updates is nice, but other phones offer 4 years of updates which is plenty for the vast majority of consumers. There's no way the Pixel 8 will even last 7 years and by that time, whoever did have the Pixel 8 would have moved on to another phone.

I mean are Google designing a chip to match it's need? Speaking of the AI performance alone, a lot of it is being done on servers rather than locally on the phone, so these AI features like Magic Editor, wallpaper creator video boost etc can be done with any chip on the phone. And we've seen the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 totally outperform the Tensor G3 in pretty amazing AI features that's done locally on the chip - not off on some server that any could be done with any processor.

I don't know why the Tensor G4 would be better comparison. The Tensor G3 and Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 have released within weeks of one another, so instead of comparing the October 2023 Google chip to the October 2023 Qualcomm chip, you want to compare the October 2023 Qualcomm chip to the October 2024 Google chip? Doesn't make much sense to me.

You're missing the point! We have to cut Google some slack! Try to bear in mind that this is only their 15th generation of smartphones and they are only worth a couple of Trillion dollars! We can't expect a small scrappy startup like them to be able to compete with their established competitors!

Also don't forget the relatively slow old storage modules they're using. UFS 3.1 is it?

 

[Bkdodger1]

Y'all carry on while my Pixel 8 Pro runs flawlessly though the daily tasks ..no heating issues ..much better reception on par with my other phones ..improved battery ...no scrolling issues ...best phone Pixel has run to date ..

 

[mustang7757]

Y'all carry on while my Pixel 8 Pro runs flawlessly though the daily tasks ..no heating issues ..much better reception on par with my other phones ..improved battery ...no scrolling issues ...best phone Pixel has run to date ..

I'm sharing same experience better than my 7pro

 

[Bkdodger1]

I'm sharing same experience better than my 7pro

Most definitely better than P7P and even my Fold has been running flawlessly…

 

[mustang7757]

Most definitely better than P7P and even my Fold has been running flawlessly…

Yeah the pixel Fold been great the only gripe I have on that one is it doesn't fold completely flat and screen mode I mentioned Samsung has standard or multi mode

 

[Bkdodger1]

Yeah the pixel Fold been great the only gripe I have on that one is it doesn't fold completely flat and screen mode I mentioned Samsung has standard or multi mode

Fold wise it doesn't bother me with that little bit off ...but I agree on the other part ..

 

[shook187]

Thank God I don't spend my time running benchmarks apps.. there's more to a phone than just benchmark score.

 

[fuzzylumpkin]

Thank God I don't spend my time running benchmarks apps.. there's more to a phone than just benchmark score.

If you don't care about benchmarks, then why bring them up? I don't think anybody else on either side of this discussion has mentioned them once...