The iPhone SE 2020 basically just killed the Pixel 4a and other value flagships...

[vzwuser76]

The processor allows this to be a viable phone, for the average consumer, for at least 5 years. That’s less than $100 per year. A big deal to a lot of people.

The people that will buy this are not feature hogs. They want a smaller phone that will last for 5 years and will get top tier support. That is where Apple excels and Android needs to improve.

I think you're confusing viable and usable. Even if a device doesn't get updates, it will still work fine. My brother is on his 3rd Android phone since 2010. He had a Droid Incredible for just over 4 years, and a Moto X 2013 for about the same. He's on a Kyocera currently. The only reason he upgraded each time was the battery wouldn't hold a charge anymore & he figured it made more sense to upgrade.

That's a bold assertion, what evidence do you have to back up what SE buyers want? Maybe they simply want a smaller phone that is almost impossible to find on Android. Maybe they want a cheap gateway to FaceTime or iMessage. Maybe they want to simply dip their toes into the Apple ecosystem and this is a cheap way to do it. Those are all possible reasons to buy the SE, but I'm not going to say of any of them are the reason they're buying it, because I don't know and neither do you.

 

[anon(50597)]

The iPhone SE 2020 basically just killed the Pixel 4a and other value flagships

I think you're confusing viable and usable. Even if a device doesn't get updates, it will still work fine. My brother is on his 3rd Android phone since 2010. He had a Droid Incredible for just over 4 years, and a Moto X 2013 for about the same. He's on a Kyocera currently. The only reason he upgraded each time was the battery wouldn't hold a charge anymore & he figured it made more sense to upgrade.

That's a bold assertion, what evidence do you have to back up what SE buyers want? Maybe they simply want a smaller phone that is almost impossible to find on Android. Maybe they want a cheap gateway to FaceTime or iMessage. Maybe they want to simply dip their toes into the Apple ecosystem and this is a cheap way to do it. Those are all possible reasons to buy the SE, but I'm not going to say of any of them are the reason they're buying it, because I don't know and neither do you.

Just because a phone can still be used doesn’t mean it’s safe to use or that it works well. I’m not here to defend Apple but you can’t tell me the 2 are comparable, can you? Security updates are huge and also is keeping up with the latest OS. How easily can your brother get his old Android serviced? Can he walk into a nearby store and have it looked at, fixed, or replaced? That’s worth a lot.

As far as knowing what SE users want, I have spent a lot of time online speaking to people who have been waiting for one for several years now. I still have the original SE though I don’t use it any more. Of course I don’t know what every single person wants, we can say that about every phone but should that stop us from coming on here and discussing it? I hope not. It provides a lot of things to a lot of people, especially price point. We know one thing for sure, it will sell well.

 

[MoreDef]

My mom just told me she's tired of her phone (Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge) and may look at iPhones next, instead of Android.

Other than being heartbroken over that, I may recommend this phone to her. Apple is expensive and if a phone like this does make a première, I'd rather her not get a massive dent in her wallet. The OS is smooth and it "just gets the job done" - I think she'd like that better than Samsung's skin.

That said, she was also interested in the Samsung Galaxy S10e, so maybe that will be a viable option, as well.

Yup. While I like to imagine my parents fully utilizing their smartphones to their full potential, they honestly just do the same 5 things over and over again:
Phone/video call
Text
Camera
Facebook
Photos

Bonus 6th activity: candy crush

Nothing is more easy mode that apple, and at the end of the day, that's all mom and dad care about.

So for them, this iPhone might just be perfect since it's not going to need replacing for years, given the right case and screen protector.

 

[Morty2264]

Yup. While I like to imagine my parents fully utilizing their smartphones to their full potential, they honestly just do the same 5 things over and over again:
Phone/video call
Text
Camera
Facebook
Photos

Bonus 6th activity: candy crush

Nothing is more easy mode that apple, and at the end of the day, that's all mom and dad care about.

So for them, this iPhone might just be perfect since it's not going to need replacing for years, given the right case and screen protector.

Plus, my mom doesn't care about things like launchers, über-customization, and the like. She just wants something that gets the job done. She takes *very* good care of her phones, so I imagine she'd use an iPhone for quite a few years with zero to no problems, like you mentioned above.

 

[Ry]

I was referring to when the total capacity of the battery starts to degrade significantly. What you quoted sounds more like a battery saver than what I was referring to.

I didn't even factor in AppleCare, how much does that run on a device like this? That's another cost to consider if you're looking at this device. Sorry but to me $80 to repair a 2-3 year old phone that cost $400 to begin with doesn't seem worth it.

What I quoted is Apple's explanation of why they throttle iPhones with degraded batteries. It's literally not a battery saver post.

The price of Apple Care is kind of irrelevant since it's an extra cost - in a sense that if you compare another device's protection plan, you'd have to factor that cost in to. One I'm trying to make is that relative to any other OEM, getting support for an Apple device is miles ahead of anyone else. In most instances, you would have to mail in your device and wait for that process.

And actually- let's bring the price down. I ended up looking it up.

https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power

Even for the second gen SE, out of warranty battery replacement is $50.

Assuming 5 year update support (and let's be honest, Apple is only getting better with length of support). Maybe in year three, the battery degrades to the point where there is an actual performance decrease. $50 and it's fixed. Less if you do it yourself.

$400 for a phone. $50 for a battery swap. You'll be able to use a secure, up to date device for less than $100 a year.

I personally don't even care that much about OS updates. Sure, you can use an outdated Android phone as long as you want as long as it still powers on, but there's no denying that what Apple does is an incredible value that no other smartphone maker can match today.

 

[the_boon]

Thanks for dropping that knowledge.

Well then I guess for me, the question then becomes, why is the world would you make something that is used and picked up and handled so much throughout the day out of something so brittle and fragile? Is it cheaper to make it out of glass? Is it easier? Why? If it isn't for wireless charging, then why are we holding phones that can chip and crack with the slightest of drops?

Anyway, that just means there's another reason the budget models are more appealing...they're not fragile glass sandwiches.

I guess because shiny things sell.

I'd much rather have a nice rubber back and flat edges that I can actually securely hold and feel than a glass back and curved edges which require a case meaning that instead of a holding a "premium" piece of tech, I'd be holding a $10 piece of gel/TPU.

 

[the_boon]

IIRC the article I read said that Apple started intentionally degrading performance as soon as the second year to offset battery degradation. This is only going to be exacerbated with a $400 phone, since the cost of replacing a battery isn't going to be worth it, so these will end up being more disposable. I think a lot of people are glossing over cons like these.

How much is Apple charging to replace a battery on an iPhone 8/SE 2020 ?

Because what good is 5 years of support if your device barely gets 3 hours of SOT after 2 years?

 

[Ry]

How much is Apple charging to replace a battery on an iPhone 8/SE 2020 ?

Because what good is 5 years of support if your device barely gets 3 hours of SOT after 2 years?

$49 when out of warranty. Probably the same for third-party repair and lower if DIY. Reasonable IMO.

 

[MoreDef]

Maybe it's too much to expect 5 years of optimal performance from any device. I mean, I can't think of any other piece of technology (that has access to the internet and received updates) that performs as well on year 5 that it did on year 1. Things just get naturally outdated, and while it's nice to find solace in the idea that we're set for the next 5 years, chances are, if you're reading this, you're going to be getting a new phone in 2 years anyway...if not sooner.

As for those who are actually going to stick with this phone for 5 years, they fall into 2 categories:

1) Those who don't care about SoT, and will charge their phone when the battery is low. They don't know, or care, about charge capacities and simply chalk it up to the law of entropy. Those people are mom's, dad's, grandmas and grandpas. For the older generation, it's a tool for communication, not a way of life, hobby or lifeline. Their lines of vision and daily routines don't revolve around access to a camera or the internet. For them, this phone is fine because it lets them keep in touch and look at pictures. Period.

2) This group can't afford a better phone and this is what they have. They will charge it when it dies and complain about how often it dies, but carry power banks to alleviate the probem. To go further, this group will even use it with giant cracks on their screen because they can't afford to fix it. These are minors and teens who can't afford to buy another phone and will use whatever they are given because they don't have a choice.

At the end of the day, what I'm saying is, to expect day 1 performance on day 20,000 is just not realistic...for any mobile device. Updates or not, there are some inevitabilities like battery degradation, so to penalize a device for a small battery that may not perform so hot in year 3 is a little unfair.

 

[bembol]

Plus, my mom doesn't care about things like launchers, über-customization, and the like. She just wants something that gets the job done. She takes *very* good care of her phones, so I imagine she'd use an iPhone for quite a few years with zero to no problems, like you mentioned above.

My mother doesn't either, I gave her my P20 Pro and no way I was going to leave it stock. LOL

She was getting upset trying to learn the Gestures, asking can't I just have all the apps on the screen. LOL

This is how addicted I am, I try to get my family and friends to install Nova, customize their phones.

If I didn't get her my phone and kept the Samsung A5, no question I would've gotten her this SE.

 

[MoreDef]

Woah woah woah...you gave your mom the P20 Pro and you kept the A5 for yourself?! You must really love your mom...or mid-tier phones.

 

[Gray Area]

Only for those who want an iPhone anyway, or a small phone.

https://www.androidcentral.com/iphone-se-2020-just-killed-pixel-4a-and-other-value-flagships

 

[Javier P]

Haha.

Three years ago I bought a phone for my parents. It was their first smartphone and the first days it was difficult to them, so I installed Nova and made a custom phone for them. One screen for speed dial shortcuts, another one for WhatsApp individual chats, changed a couple of things in the dock, left a screen for other apps they use and locked the desktop to avoid the accidental changes they were doing.

I left a doc with instructions and explained to my nephew how to help them. They haven't made a single change or unlock the desktop even once.

 

[Gray Area]

Right apple is only a status symbol with teens these days. Adults who use iPhones have just always used them and don't have a desire to change. At least in my experience.

Among teens thats all they want is iphone

 

[mustang7757]

Right apple is only a status symbol with teens these days. Adults who use iPhones have just always used them and don't have a desire to change. At least in my experience.

Yeah it's gotta be somewhat a status symbol .

 

[Gray Area]

Did that with my daughter when she was 3 on a tablet. One of the many perks with Android

Haha.

Three years ago I bought a phone for my parents. It was their first smartphone and the first days it was difficult to them, so I installed Nova and made a custom phone for them. One screen for speed dial shortcuts, another one for WhatsApp individual chats, changed a couple of things in the dock, left a screen for other apps they use and locked the desktop to avoid the accidental changes they were doing.

I left a doc with instructions and explained to my nephew how to help them. They haven't made a single change or unlock the desktop even once.

 

[vzwuser76]

What I quoted is Apple's explanation of why they throttle iPhones with degraded batteries. It's literally not a battery saver post.

The price of Apple Care is kind of irrelevant since it's an extra cost - in a sense that if you compare another device's protection plan, you'd have to factor that cost in to. One I'm trying to make is that relative to any other OEM, getting support for an Apple device is miles ahead of anyone else. In most instances, you would have to mail in your device and wait for that process.

And actually- let's bring the price down. I ended up looking it up.

https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power

Even for the second gen SE, out of warranty battery replacement is $50.

Assuming 5 year update support (and let's be honest, Apple is only getting better with length of support). Maybe in year three, the battery degrades to the point where there is an actual performance decrease. $50 and it's fixed. Less if you do it yourself.

$400 for a phone. $50 for a battery swap. You'll be able to use a secure, up to date device for less than $100 a year.

I personally don't even care that much about OS updates. Sure, you can use an outdated Android phone as long as you want as long as it still powers on, but there's no denying that what Apple does is an incredible value that no other smartphone maker can match today.

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Depending on the cost of AppleCare vs what other OEM's charge for their plans, that might be a big difference. And IIRC wasn't there issues with Apple not honoring the warranty on third party repairs? Those kind of things are an issue for some people. As for not having to mail in your device, lots of people don't live near an Apple store. The only one I know of in my state that's authorized to repair Apple & Mac is 200 miles away.

The reason Apple is able to do that is because they also do their own SOCs, which Google is reportedly close to doing. Otherwise everyone's beholden to Qualcomm for support. And generally with Apple newer features released in updates get tied to newer hardware. They're not alone in that, but I think Google has done pretty well in that regard with their Pixel line, making sure older devices can have access to newer features.

I guess what generally makes me scratch my head about all this is the issues that people bring up in regards to newly released Android devices are brushed aside for a phone like the SE. Things like battery size, bezels, display size and quality, modern design, headphone jack, number and types of cameras, etc etc. If this were an Android device it would be DOA. Imagine if the Pixel 4a had bezels like the SE has, or used the same display tech the SE has. There would be no end to the negative comments.

I guess I just don't see the same value in it as some of you do.

 

[Ry]

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Depending on the cost of AppleCare vs what other OEM's charge for their plans, that might be a big difference. And IIRC wasn't there issues with Apple not honoring the warranty on third party repairs? Those kind of things are an issue for some people. As for not having to mail in your device, lots of people don't live near an Apple store. The only one I know of in my state that's authorized to repair Apple & Mac is 200 miles away.

It looks like AppleCare for the new iPhone SE is only $79. And just because you don't live near an Apple store or an authorized repair center, doesn't mean that the majority of people don't too. The general population has better physical access to Apple support than any other phone maker. AFAIK, all Best Buys are Apple Service Providers too.

With regards to third-party repair, it kind of depends on the situation. And when we're talking three years in, that's already out of warranty anyway.

The reason Apple is able to do that is because they also do their own SOCs, which Google is reportedly close to doing. Otherwise everyone's beholden to Qualcomm for support. And generally with Apple newer features released in updates get tied to newer hardware. They're not alone in that, but I thi nk Google has done pretty well in that regard with their Pixel line, making sure older devices can have access to newer features.

If an iOS feature is tied to new hardware, of course it won't make it in an iOS update to old hardware.

I guess what generally makes me scratch my head about all this is the issues that people bring up in regards to newly released Android devices are brushed aside for a phone like the SE. Things like battery size, bezels, display size and quality, modern design, headphone jack, number and types of cameras, etc etc. If this were an Android device it would be DOA. Imagine if the Pixel 4a had bezels like the SE has, or used the same display tech the SE has. There would be no end to the negative comments.

I guess I just don't see the same value in it as some of you do.

Battery size in an iPhone isn't an apples to apples compariosn to battery size on an Android phone. Relative to capacity, it seems iPhones get way more out of what's available. Battery life is a better metric, IMO.

Bezels - I already iterated that in previous posts. Knowing that the new SE isn't made for consumers like us, bezels just aren't that big of a deal. The iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 being top ten in volume in 2019 prove that to me.

Display size? Not everyone wants or needs a large screen. And quality? The LCD's Apple uses are some of the best - no one really complains about those.

Headphone jack? Probably the vocal minority complains about that. And it's not like Android OEMs are immune to that criticism too.

Number of cameras shouldn't make or break but I get it. Pixel used to get crucified for only having one (rear) camera. But the quality of the shots were still top notch. Type of camera? I mean the Pixel 4 got planned for having a telephoto instead of an ultra wide. But in the market we're talking about here probably doesn't care that the SE has a single camera setup. They probably don't even care that the Pixel has a telephoto instead of an ultra wide.

The negative comments are toxic. But that's the world we live in. I appreciate what Apple's done here with the new SE even if it's not for me. It's not lazy. It's quite brilliant. Not everything is a battle. The new SE existing won't make the upcoming 4a a bad pick.

 

[Ry]

The iPhone SE 2020 basically just killed the Pixel 4a and other value flagships

Also- I think people are upset at the thread title, which is just a cut and paste of the title of the Android Central article that I linked in the original post.

TRIGGERED

 

[mustang7757]

It looks like AppleCare for the new iPhone SE is only $79. And just because you don't live near an Apple store or an authorized repair center, doesn't mean that the majority of people don't too. The general population has better physical access to Apple support than any other phone maker. AFAIK, all Best Buys are Apple Service Providers too.

With regards to third-party repair, it kind of depends on the situation. And when we're talking three years in, that's already out of warranty anyway.



If an iOS feature is tied to new hardware, of course it won't make it in an iOS update to old hardware.



Battery size in an iPhone isn't an apples to apples compariosn to battery size on an Android phone. Relative to capacity, it seems iPhones get way more out of what's available. Battery life is a better metric, IMO.

Bezels - I already iterated that in previous posts. Knowing that the new SE isn't made for consumers like us, bezels just aren't that big of a deal. The iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 being top ten in volume in 2019 prove that to me.

Display size? Not everyone wants or needs a large screen. And quality? The LCD's Apple uses are some of the best - no one really complains about those.

Headphone jack? Probably the vocal minority complains about that. And it's not like Android OEMs are immune to that criticism too.

Number of cameras shouldn't make or break but I get it. Pixel used to get crucified for only having one (rear) camera. But the quality of the shots were still top notch. Type of camera? I mean the Pixel 4 got planned for having a telephoto instead of an ultra wide. But in the market we're talking about here probably doesn't care that the SE has a single camera setup. They probably don't even care that the Pixel has a telephoto instead of an ultra wide.

The negative comments are toxic. But that's the world we live in. I appreciate what Apple's done here with the new SE even if it's not for me. It's not lazy. It's quite brilliant. Not everything is a battle. The new SE existing won't make the upcoming 4a a bad pick.

Always thought that Apple had the best lcd panels on a phone .