Themes?

[KPMcClave]

It seems themes on other handsets are gathering some steam of late. HTC in particular highlighted them when the M9 rolled out, but I believe Samsung has them on the S6 and S6 Edge at least (if not others).

I suspect that because the Turbo is close to stock aesthetically, themes aren't something we'll see (I also assume they are part of the other OEMs overlays Sense, Touchwiz, etc. and so we can't?).

I would love to have the ability to override some of the Material Design lightening of Android Lollipop. It's frustrated me even before the rollout of Lollipop that there aren't more ways to darken things (no dark theme option for a number of apps and I believe every Google app), especially on a phone like ours with an AMOLED screen that would benefit practically from it. More than that, I just highly prefer a darker look. At least more dark options allow for personal taste (and in AMOLED cases better battery life).

So, any guesses as to whether this will be an option at some point, or if it even can be on the Turbo?

 

[Rukbat]

Most launchers can be themed. Just find one you like and install some themes for it. You're not limited to the launcher that comes with the phone.

As far as Material Disgust and Amoled screens, I agree - that was one of the biggest design goofs Google has made to date. I use Velis Auto Brightness - it helps a little bit. (And I'm still on 4.4.2, because nothing in any upgrade from there on has anything that interests me.)

 

[KPMcClave]

Most launchers can be themed. Just find one you like and install some themes for it. You're not limited to the launcher that comes with the phone.

As far as Material Disgust and Amoled screens, I agree - that was one of the biggest design goofs Google has made to date. I use Velis Auto Brightness - it helps a little bit. (And I'm still on 4.4.2, because nothing in any upgrade from there on has anything that interests me.)

I already have a launcher I love (Nova Prime). What I want is more than launchers seem to provide. Such as (but not only), in Lollipop in particular, something that will make the Settings screen dark with light font. I'm not sure if the other OEM themes do that either. If all those themes do is the same switching of icon sets, etc. that third party launchers provide, then I'm not as interested in Motorola themes. Although my basic preference is to like the pre-installed stuff enough to not have to go third party.

What would be ideal is if there was an Andorid option for an overall light and overall dark theme. Just as some apps provide (yea, Android Central!).

 

[doogald]

I thought that there were rumors that Lollipop or M would eventually offer a choice of material light or dark themes? (At this point I'd guess it will be more an "M" feature. Unfortunately for the Turbo, that probably means next summer sometime, based on the updates to the year-old Droids to a second Android version upgrade - May for the Razr HD/M to KitKat last year, still waiting for Lollipop for the Ultra/Maxx/Mini this year.)

Remember for AMOLED that you want black, not just "dark", for maximum savings.

And the truth is that I just need apps to offer a black theme. My forays into the settings screens are rare once a phone is set up. For example, I like the Google Messenger app, and would love to see a black theme for the app. Even launchers can be made better with a black wallpaper, without having to theme at all.

That said - I'd sure be interested to see some real world numbers on AMOLED displays showing the effect of a white theme vs. a black theme. How much battery life is saved? Is it really significant? (I'm not wondering from a theoretical, black on AMOLED *should* use less power, but a real-world controlled study showing what the effect really is on an Android phone.) Is there such a thing?

 

[KPMcClave]

I thought that there were rumors that Lollipop or M would eventually offer a choice of material light or dark themes? (At this point I'd guess it will be more an "M" feature. Unfortunately for the Turbo, that probably means next summer sometime, based on the updates to the year-old Droids to a second Android version upgrade - May for the Razr HD/M to KitKat last year, still waiting for Lollipop for the Ultra/Maxx/Mini this year.)

Remember for AMOLED that you want black, not just "dark", for maximum savings.

And the truth is that I just need apps to offer a black theme. My forays into the settings screens are rare once a phone is set up. For example, I like the Google Messenger app, and would love to see a black theme for the app. Even launchers can be made better with a black wallpaper, without having to theme at all.

That said - I'd sure be interested to see some real world numbers on AMOLED displays showing the effect of a white theme vs. a black theme. How much battery life is saved? Is it really significant? (I'm not wondering from a theoretical, black on AMOLED *should* use less power, but a real-world controlled study showing what the effect really is on an Android phone.) Is there such a thing?

That's an excellent question, and one I'd be interested to know the answer, as well. It seems given explanations of the technologies that it would have to make a difference. Unless the part they leave out is that LCDs are much better battery savers to begin with, or something. Especially if you compare the extremes (white wallpaper vs. black). Maybe the supposed battery savings of our Moto Display feature is more marketing than science in the end?

Yep, black is beautiful, for appearance and (theoretically) for battery savings. If I can't have a black theme, I still prefer the dark to the light.

 

[TurboHope]

This is just a guess, but I think it wouldn't use that much more battery. This would have so many variables that a case study may be give an average, but that wouldn't necessarily mean anything when compared to your individual use. I use apps and programs for extensive periods that most (average users) do not. So this and other reasons is why I will take the average battery consumption I've recorded for my use and overlay the data to the post LP data.
What do you think the difference will be? Reasons?

Posted via the Android Central App

 

[doogald]

What do you think the difference will be? Reasons?

Amoled displays, unlike lcd displays, use self-lit pixel elements. There is no backlight. Any black areas on the display are unlit pixels, so they use no energy. With an lcd display, whether the display shows all white, a mix of colors, or all black, the display is backlit using the same amount of energy always.

That's why theoretically (and probably really) amoled displays use less energy when there is more black. What I'm not sure of is how much energy that is. Would it give a few minutes of extra battery life, or a few dozen minutes, compared with the typical white background material design elements?

 

[KPMcClave]

Amoled displays, unlike lcd displays, use self-lit pixel elements. There is no backlight. Any black areas on the display are unlit pixels, so they use no energy. With an lcd display, whether the display shows all white, a mix of colors, or all black, the display is backlit using the same amount of energy always.

That's why theoretically (and probably really) amoled displays use less energy when there is more black. What I'm not sure of is how much energy that is. Would it give a few minutes of extra battery life, or a few dozen minutes, compared with the typical white background material design elements?

And it's especially interesting because, of course, the screen is the biggest battery hog on any phone.

 

[88horizon5speed]

I just realized something though...so you know how turning on a lightbulf uses the same enegery as running it for say 30 seconds (depending on bulb type).. So if you are scrllolling through a page constantly starting and stopping pixels from being lit I think it makes sense to say your using more energy than if they stayed lit. No?

 

[TurboHope]

Amoled displays, unlike lcd displays, use self-lit pixel elements. There is no backlight. Any black areas on the display are unlit pixels, so they use no energy. With an lcd display, whether the display shows all white, a mix of colors, or all black, the display is backlit using the same amount of energy always.

That's why theoretically (and probably really) amoled displays use less energy when there is more black. What I'm not sure of is how much energy that is. Would it give a few minutes of extra battery life, or a few dozen minutes, compared with the typical white background material design elements?

I understand this completely, but my point is that I doubt it would be more than a percent or 2 of battery use difference.

Posted via the Android Central App

 

[doogald]

I understand this completely, but my point is that I doubt it would be more than a percent or 2 of battery use difference.

There is a good Wikipedia article about this.

AMOLED - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The amount of power the display consumes varies significantly depending on the color and brightness shown. As an example, one commercial QVGA OLED display consumes 0.3 watts while showing white text on a black background, but more than 0.7 watts showing black text on a white background, while an LCD may consume only a constant 0.35 watts regardless of what is being shown on screen.[10]

These are specific differences noted in a research paper in an IEEE magazine article. We don't know what the figures are for the Turbo, but you can see, if it's similar to this display in the article, that the white background actually consumes more power on an AMOLED than a comparable backlit LCD (though the article is from 2009, so irrelevant by now.)

But, what you said is what I said earlier - what's the real difference? Somebody should take two fully charged Turbos with SIMs removed, with an app like the Fenix twitter client installed, which allows you to choose either a white or black theme, run it on WiFi on the same twitter account side by side with the display set to never turn off and see what the real battery differences are after an hour, two hours, etc., for a white and black theme. That would be an interesting experiment.

 

[KPMcClave]

I understand this completely, but my point is that I doubt it would be more than a percent or 2 of battery use difference.

Posted via the Android Central App

Over how long? Per hour? Per day?

With all the benchmark wars that don't carry over to real world use, this might be a stat that we could actually use for informed decisions (asuming it didn't turn out to be a nominal difference).

 

[KPMcClave]

There is a good Wikipedia article about this.

AMOLED - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



These are specific differences noted in a research paper in an IEEE magazine article. We don't know what the figures are for the Turbo, but you can see, if it's similar to this display in the article, that the white background actually consumes more power on an AMOLED than a comparable backlit LCD (though the article is from 2009, so irrelevant by now.)

But, what you said is what I said earlier - what's the real difference? Somebody should take two fully charged Turbos with SIMs removed, with an app like the Fenix twitter client installed, which allows you to choose either a white or black theme, run it on WiFi on the same twitter account side by side with the display set to never turn off and see what the real battery differences are after an hour, two hours, etc., for a white and black theme. That would be an interesting experiment.

If the basic numbers hold up to some degree in that research paper, the difference in battery saving is worth noting for white vs. black on an AMOLED, but pretty smalll AMOLED vs. LCD black vs. black. As I suggested earlier, if the factor they're leaving out when talkiing about battery saving with AMOLED screens is that the LCDs are better overall at conservation (and with the numbers you posted I'd say that's a fair statement given the difference in whites), then AMOLEDs aren't that big a deal over LCDs. No way we get black screens all the time on our phones, so I figure overall AMOLED consumtion is higher than overall LCD consumption for most anyone.

Interesting, because I had always thought AMOLED with lots of black was best for battery savings *overall* (my conclusion from cliams and all I'd read about the technologies generally).

'Course, now there are Super AMOLEDs! So, who knows...

 

[TurboHope]

Over how long? Per hour? Per day?

With all the benchmark wars that don't carry over to real world use, this might be a stat that we could actually use for informed decisions (asuming it didn't turn out to be a nominal difference).

Per day, if you read that link to the paper someone posted, it doesn't seem like much if any difference

Posted via the Android Central App

 

[vzwuser76]

Even if the power use is the same between amoled and LCD, I'd still prefer amoled if for nothing more than the contrast ratio. I've yet to see an LCD with blacks as rich as amoled displays. Plus, I still think there's a energy benefit to Moto Display and an amoled screen. On devices like the Droid Mini with an LCD screen, Moto Display has to turn on the backlight for the entire display. But on an amoled screen, MD only has to turn on a fraction of the screen. The only downside I've seen to amoled is burn in. My Galaxy S3 has it bad (the status bar in landscape mode, so there's a strip down the right side of the screen), and my Droid Maxx started to get it but I caught it in time.

 

[doogald]

Another downside to AMOLED is outdoor use. LCDs can definitely go brighter and are more viewable in strong daylight.

 

[vzwuser76]

Another downside to AMOLED is outdoor use. LCDs can definitely go brighter and are more viewable in strong daylight.

I've heard that, but I didn't see that on the two LCD phones I had, (HTC Thunderbolt and Droid Incredible 2). Of course I'd imagine LCD technology has come pretty far since then. But if I go to full brightness, I haven't really had any issues with outdoor visibility on the last few amoled phones I've had (Galaxy S3, Droid Maxx and Turbo).

 

[KPMcClave]

So, regardless of tech benefit, what say you about the idea and the possibility of themes on the Turbo?

Also, for anyone who has tried themes elsewhere, do they really change the theme fully, or are they just integrated launchers (change icons and wallpaper, but not OS background colors, etc.).

 

[doogald]

So, regardless of tech benefit, what say you about the idea and the possibility of themes on the Turbo?

Of course it's just a guess. But, nope. Motorola is going to do what Google did with Lollipop. If Google adds theming to "M", then when the phone gets updated next year it will also get it. But Google just spent tons developing material design and they're not going to allow too much mucking around with it.

 

[KPMcClave]

Of course it's just a guess. But, nope. Motorola is going to do what Google did with Lollipop. If Google adds theming to "M", then when the phone gets updated next year it will also get it. But Google just spent tons developing material design and they're not going to allow too much mucking around with it.

I agree with the guess...but also point out that the HTC and Samsung devices with themes also have Material Design.

I hope that an OS level option for a dark, and if it's not too much to ask, (I know it is) black theme option does wind up in M. That's really all I need. I don't have to have 75 different accent colors options or auto-set wallpapers.

I tend to hate the default Android icons overall, too. They just usually seem half-...uh...baked. Some have no frame, others do, etc. They also look pretty juvenile to me. So, an OS level ability to change those up would be nice, too. I'd forego that for an OS level black theme, though.