Ultrapixel Camera Question

[JHBThree]

You can argue all you want, but until you have facts to back up what you say, you'll be looked at as a troll.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

I'm confused as to what you're saying. Are you trying to argue against his assertion that a 10 megapixel camera with a larger sensor will produce better pictures than one with a cell phone sized sensor? That larger pixels do not allow more light to be captured?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[warpdrive]

I'm confused as to what you're saying. Are you trying to argue against his assertion that a 10 megapixel camera with a larger sensor will produce better pictures than one with a cell phone sized sensor? That larger pixels do not allow more light to be captured?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

But that was not what the person was saying. He then went on to say that dSLR are known to have poor dynamic range...again, clearly false.
In fact, I'm not even sure that person knew what he was saying.
Omg, now I'm confused.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[joslicx]

Htc one looks awesome in low light ,all 3 flagship's cameras compared.
Who has the Best Camera? HTC One VS Galaxy S4 VS Xperia Z - Android.PandaApp.com

 

[xtn]

Warpdrive...

You have to admit that - as is evidenced by the above post and many similar ones - maybe HTC's target criteria are met. The average Joe and Jane Consumer will make a judgment based on pictures they see on a website that don't even take up the whole screen size of their cheap monitors. And not knowing what to look for they will decide the ONE's pictures look just as good as any other phone's. And for themselves and their likely usage patterns they will be right.

HTC's decision to simply give them a new word that lets them, in their minds, defend against the megapixel arguments is a wise one.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BEARD GANG]

Lol this is becoming more of a which camera to buy thread.. Lets just remember its still a phone.. The quality only really matters if your really bothered by it.. But most people on here wont really mind i dnt think

 

[warpdrive]

Warpdrive...

You have to admit that - as is evidenced by the above post and many similar ones - maybe HTC's target criteria are met. The average Joe and Jane Consumer will make a judgment based on pictures they see on a website that don't even take up the whole screen size of their cheap monitors. And not knowing what to look for they will decide the ONE's pictures look just as good as any other phone's. And for themselves and their likely usage patterns they will be right.

HTC's decision to simply give them a new word that lets them, in their minds, defend against the megapixel arguments is a wise one.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

I have to agree, but then again, I never said otherwise.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[acrewdog]

I think what may be missing in this discussion is that the larger sensor (NOT censor) may allow the HTC one to operate at a lower effective ISO at the same level of brightness. (we all know the triangle of aperture, shutter, and ISO, right?) Remember that these cameras are not nearly as adaptable as a SLR with a range of apertures and shutter speeds. We should also look at whether Zoe mode is on when taking pictures because there are probably shutter speed requirements that go along with that. I also think it is darn cool that they included OIS in a cameraphone. This technology may be a big part of why these tiny file photographs look just as good or better then some of the others. I don't usually use a tripod with my phone.
I would also like to dispute the assertion that a 4 megapixel file is only good for a 5x7. I sold one megapixel cameras back when they were new and we advertised them as good enough to make an 8x10.
Some people might spend time pixel peeping but a 4 MP file is fine at 8x10 for most people at normal viewing distances. (Those cameras cost over a grand back then)

Personally I'm kind of happy that the HTC One takes pictures that are, at worst, comparable to the 13 Mp pictures that other camera phones take while only taking up a fraction of the size in MB. Can you imagine how big Zoes would be with a 13 Mp camera? what a waste of space!

 

[SCjRqrQCnBQ19QoYCtdl]

I think what may be missing in this discussion is that the larger sensor (NOT censor) may allow the HTC one to operate at a lower effective ISO at the same level of brightness. (we all know the triangle of aperture, shutter, and ISO, right?) Remember that these cameras are not nearly as adaptable as a SLR with a range of apertures and shutter speeds. We should also look at whether Zoe mode is on when taking pictures because there are probably shutter speed requirements that go along with that. I also think it is darn cool that they included OIS in a cameraphone. This technology may be a big part of why these tiny file photographs look just as good or better then some of the others. I don't usually use a tripod with my phone.
I would also like to dispute the assertion that a 4 megapixel file is only good for a 5x7. I sold one megapixel cameras back when they were new and we advertised them as good enough to make an 8x10.
Some people might spend time pixel peeping but a 4 MP file is fine at 8x10 for most people at normal viewing distances. (Those cameras cost over a grand back then)

Personally I'm kind of happy that the HTC One takes pictures that are, at worst, comparable to the 13 Mp pictures that other camera phones take while only taking up a fraction of the size in MB. Can you imagine how big Zoes would be with a 13 Mp camera? what a waste of space!

Yeah, I had an original Digital Rebel back in the day. 6.3mp, which isn't that much bigger than the 4mp for the HTC ONE. I replaced the Rebel with the 20D which is only 8.2mp. I guarantee the 20D takes better pictures than any of the 13mp phone cams. I also have the Sony RX100, which is 20mp and is an outstanding pocketable camera - but it doesn't take as good of pictures as the 20D, which has 1/3 the pixels. Mega pixels aren't everything. Sensor size (as well as processor/lens/etc.) is an important factor. Think of the ONE's sensor as basically a section of a larger sensor camera than the 13mp phone cams. While the actual sensors may be the same size, the output of the ONE is equivalent to a portion of a larger sensor. The extra pixels can be handy, but there are trade offs (file size, noise, ISO requirments, processing load).

I for one would rather have a higher quality, smaller file than a lower quality larger file for a phone camera.

/ramble off

 

[warpdrive]

I think what may be missing in this discussion is that the larger sensor (NOT censor) may allow the HTC one to operate at a lower effective ISO at the same level of brightness. (we all know the triangle of aperture, shutter, and ISO, right?)....

Let us not forget that it is not just the aperture, shutter, and ISO, that deals with the image, but also the software. In fact your thoughts on using a slightly lower ISO because of larger pixels is also not true and at least on full auto, the One normally uses a higher ISO to take the same pics as say the S4.

Example:
After extreme testing of my HTC evo3d, I've found that if left on full auto, my phone will use a slightly lower ISO then I might want. In low light, the software might pick ISO 400 when ISO 800 would have been a better pick.

Yet on the HTC One, it seems to pick a higher then needed ISO, especially in bright light. This has everything to do with software and has nothing to do with pixel size.

Remember, while hardware is very important in order to have a good image, without the software, you won't have anything.

Nice try in explaining things. But once again, let's try to keep this thread truthful and not excuse the camera features for It's failings, if any.


sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[SCjRqrQCnBQ19QoYCtdl]

No it does not. Stop saying this. That is just flat out wrong. That is not how pixels work.

Forget the marketing bs that HTC says.
What larger pixels do is help increase dynamic range...or details in the shadows and highlights.
The lack of dynamic range has already been proven by everyone who reviewed the camera including this website (both before and after the update)

I have 30 years of photography as a pro and now a retired hobbyist. I know what pixels do and what they don't do.


sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

Larger pixels (all else the same, which is never the case) allow for greater signal to noise ratio, which (again all esle the same) should result in better pictures.

It seems as though HTC may have concentrated too much on admitedly neat features like Zoe and neglected what could have been features to quell all the naysayers - the ability to control more parameters directly, maybe even raw support.

OR maybe the sensor is just not very good.

In either case the problem, if there is one, is not the number of pixels.

 

[acrewdog]

And let's not pretend that software is anything like hardware. Software can be updated, patched, fixed. It's the hardware here that is interesting. Hopefully we will be able to use apps to change those settings and make the camera work the way we would like it to. But in the end it's still a camera on a phone.
Don't EVEN get me started about the many failings of the camera(s) on the 3D. The ONE will be frikkin Nirvana after using that POS camera for the last 20 months.

 

[warpdrive]

And let's not pretend that software is anything like hardware. Software can be updated, patched, fixed. It's the hardware here that is interesting. Hopefully we will be able to use apps to change those settings and make the camera work the way we would like it to. But in the end it's still a camera on a phone.
Don't EVEN get me started about the many failings of the camera(s) on the 3D. The ONE will be frikkin Nirvana after using that POS camera for the last 20 months.

You won't need apps to change the settings that will help. I have already posted some settings that you can change earlier.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[Erik Pendleton]

You won't need apps to change the settings that will help. I have already posted some settings that you can change earlier.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

I was under the impression that you can't choose ISO or even shutter speed, that the camera favors higher shutter speeds and ISOs than would be my preferable for static shots. Is this not the case?

 

[warpdrive]

I was under the impression that you can't choose ISO or even shutter speed, that the camera favors higher shutter speeds and ISOs than would be my preferable for static shots. Is this not the case?

Not the case. Well, you are not going to get a shutter speed priority setting. I also don't see it taking a photo at too high a speed of its shutter, but if you tell it what to focus on, it will then do spot metering instead of center weight metering.

Since ill never remember every setting besides the basic ones that can be changed, here is a list I pulled from a review...
The rest of the settings include crop aspect ratios (Wide - 16:9, Regular - 4:3, Square - 1:1), video quality (1080p, 720p, MMS 176x144), review duration, image adjustments (exposure, contrast, saturation, sharpness), ISO (Auto, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600), white balance, continuous shooting, camera options, shutter options (tap to capture, sound), lock focus on video (disable CAF) and auto upload.

I hope that helped.

Sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[BEARD GANG]

Damn warp you know too much i might just end up getting a new camera forget the phone lol :thumbup:

 

[warpdrive]

Damn warp you know too much i might just end up getting a new camera forget the phone lol :thumbup:

Thank you for the kind words. But get the phone. I feel that while it may not always be the best camera, getting a great night or low light indoor shot (that others can't capture as well) can be well worth it. That f2 lens with OIS can be so wonderful at times.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[whiteshadow001]

I have a Sony NEX-5r camera so I'm just gonna use my phone for things like FB/ instagram/ twitter/ etc. so I'm guessing the ONE is perfect for those types of things right?

 

[acrewdog]

That f2 lens with OIS can be so wonderful at times.

Am I in a Panasonic FZ200 forum? (Well, except for the sensor size argument being turned on it's head)
I'm glad to see you are not so down on the phone. It seemed in some of your earlier posts that something had made you angry about it.

The reason that photography is an art is that interface between technology and vision. I'm becoming convinced that this phone will be used to create some good art, once the users figure out how to optimize the thing for their vision. That won't stop me from bringing a real camera along if I'm visiting someplace special.

 

[xtn]

I never thought warpdrive was down on the phone. It was clear that he was down on people gushing about it who don't know what they're talking about. Big difference.

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[adriandb]

Here's some beautiful examples of pics from this camera from a completely biased source.

UltraPixel Photography with the New HTC One — HTC Blog