Which wired high impedance over ear headphones are decent without breaking the bank?

[Mike Dee]

I don't think the results were that significant and the V20 may have done better in some aspects.... I'd have to go back and look.

 

[John_Cline]

It's definitely low output so it would not make sense to run high impedance headphones with it off.

It's all about power, milliwatts in this case, and the headphone's sensitivity measure in decibels per milliwatt. If both types of headphones have the same sensitivity, then they will produce exactly the same sound pressure level at the same power input. A given power can be achieved in two ways; high voltage and low current or low voltage and high current, the power output and resulting sound pressure level will be the same. Once again, there is nothing inherently "better" about high impedance phones vs low impedance phones.

 

[talon1189]

It's all about power, milliwatts in this case, and the headphone's sensitivity measure in decibels per milliwatt. If both types of headphones have the same sensitivity, then they will produce exactly the same sound pressure level at the same power input. A given power can be achieved in two ways; high voltage and low current or low voltage and high current, the power output and resulting sound pressure level will be the same. Once again, there is nothing inherently "better" about high impedance phones vs low impedance phones.

But that is NOT what Mike Dee1 says? So high impedance and low impedance are exactly the same within the same model for sound accurate quality? There is nothing different except the higher impedance model just has more volume through the DAC than the lower impedance version based on a voltage difference?

 

[John_Cline]

First of all, sound quality is entirely subjective, only you can decide what sounds good to you.

For the sake of this argument lets say we have a set of Beyer DT880 headphones which is available in 32, 250 and 600 ohm models and each model has the same sensitivity, it will produce a sound output of 96 decibels (how loud it is) at 1 milliwatt of power (1/1000th of a watt). Delivering 1 milliwatt of power into 32 ohms takes .178 volts, delivering the same 1 milliwatt into 250 ohms requires .500 volts, and 1 milliwatt into 600 ohms requires .775 volts. In other words, to produce the exact same 100 decibels of sound out of a 32, 250, or 600 ohm headphone requires .178, .500 or .775 volts respectively. All the V20 is doing when it senses a high impedance headphone is turming up the gain (output voltage) by a fixed relative amount to compensate for the higher impedance so you get roughly the same sound level as a low impedance headphone. When you adjust the volume on the phone, you are just adjusting its voltage output. Even turned all the way up, most phones simply can't produce enough voltage to make a high impedance headphone get very loud, the V20 can. The actual sound quality in terms of distortion and noise the V20 produces is essentially the same regardless.

That said, another factor that hasn't been discussed is the maximum current the headphone amp can produce before distortion occurs, because of the interconnected relationship between voltage, power, impedance and current, current output is more of a concern when driving low impedance phones. Suffice it to say that the V20 can produce enough current to drive low impedance phones to the point of being uncomfortably loud.

 

[talon1189]

So if I buy a 250 ohm set of headphones for my V20. The volume will just be louder than a low impedance of the same brand of headphone?

 

[talon1189]

First of all, sound quality is entirely subjective, only you can decide what sounds good to you.

For the sake of this argument lets say we have a set of Beyer DT880 headphones which is available in 32, 250 and 600 ohm models and each model has the same sensitivity, it will produce a sound output of 96 decibels (how loud it is) at 1 milliwatt of power (1/1000th of a watt). Delivering 1 milliwatt of power into 32 ohms takes .178 volts, delivering the same 1 milliwatt into 250 ohms requires .500 volts, and 1 milliwatt into 600 ohms requires .775 volts. In other words, to produce the exact same 100 decibels of sound out of a 32, 250, or 600 ohm headphone requires .178, .500 or .775 volts respectively. All the V20 is doing when it senses a high impedance headphone is turming up the gain (output voltage) by a fixed relative amount to compensate for the higher impedance so you get roughly the same sound level as a low impedance headphone. When you adjust the volume on the phone, you are just adjusting its voltage output. Even turned all the way up, most phones simply can't produce enough voltage to make a high impedance headphone get very loud, the V20 can. The actual sound quality in terms of distortion and noise the V20 produces is essentially the same regardless.

That said, another factor that hasn't been discussed is the maximum current the headphone amp can produce before distortion occurs, because of the interconnected relationship between voltage, power, impedance and current, current output is more of a concern when driving low impedance phones. Suffice it to say that the V20 can produce enough current to drive low impedance phones to the point of being uncomfortably loud.

You have been up front on your beliefs . I think that you are only looking to peck away at Mikes honest opinion for his own sound opinions. He has a claimed to been a "audio engineer" in the past. Everybody has a different opinion on sound quality as you know...

 

[John_Cline]

So if I buy a 250 ohm set of headphones for my V20. The volume will just be louder than a low impedance of the same brand of headphone?

No, not necessarily. A high impedance headphone requires more voltage for the exact same sound output as a lower impedance headphone. Don't buy a high impedance headphone thinking that it will automatically sound better or louder than a low impedance headphone. Buy the headphone whose sound, comfort, features and price pleases you the most.

One thing to consider is that other audio devices may not be able to drive high impedance headphones to an acceptable volume, in general, lower impedance headphones (under 50 ohms or so) can be used to their full capability on a wider variety of devices (assuming the headphones/earbuds sound good to you.)

You have been up front on your beliefs . I think that you are only looking to peck away at Mikes honest opinion for his own sound opinions. He has a claimed to been a "audio engineer" in the past. Everybody has a different opinion on sound quality as you know

I've been talking about the laws of physics, specifically electricity, they are not opinions and besides, I'm not talking about sound quality. When one claims to be using their ears to measure something, then that is exclusively a subjective opinion and it's open to debate. Sound quality is particularly difficult to discuss because there aren't a lot of words in the English language to accurately describe sound. When I say something is "sky blue" we can all pretty much agree what that is, but when I describe a guitar sound as "crunchy", that term means wildly different things to different people. I can fairly accurately describe what someone looks like using words but I can't really describe what they sound like.

 

[Mike Dee]

So if I buy a 250 ohm set of headphones for my V20. The volume will just be louder than a low impedance of the same brand of headphone?

The sound characteristics will always be different. Not necessarily better in all cases. Forget all the math and formulas. The impedance of a headphone is mostly determined by the drivers voice coil. The guage of the wire impacts the sound directly and there is no getting around that regardless of all the technical jargon and specs in the world. Your ears don't hear formulas and specs. They actually hear sound. You may actually like the sound of a low impedance model better than a high impedance model. That's where the subjective part comes in. I'm not talking about describing sound in in uncommon terms. You can certainly hear and distinguish whether a specific set of phones produce more bass, treble or run flatter in head to head comparisons.

What complicated things for me with the V20 is that you lose control of the output level. In every case I've tried the V20 I could never get the V20 as loud with low impedance models in low impedance mode as I could with high impedence models in high impedance mode. In some cases with the low impedance models I could crank the V20 all the way up without any pain. That's one of the major reasons I prefer high impedance models for this phone. When I say high impedance I am not including anything over 150 ohms because the amp inside the V20 isn't really geared for that. It's always important to have matched system and putting extremely high impedance phones on the V20 may not be the best option.

 

[Joshua_Muldoon]

Anyone else suddenly Get a headache?

 

[Mike Dee]

Anyone else suddenly Get a headache?

I just lower the volume and then it subsides

 

[Joshua_Muldoon]

I just lower the volume and then it subsides

I meant with your conversation. It's all over my head lol

 

[Mike Dee]

I meant with your conversation. It's all over my head lol

I know exactly what you meant..... Lol

 

[Joshua_Muldoon]

Oh sorry. As much as I love music, I don't understand the dynamics as much as I would like to.

 

[Mike Dee]

Well, most headphones sound better on this phone than your average phone so no matter what you should be in the good shape if you turn on the HIFI DAC

 

[Joshua_Muldoon]

Got it, thank you. I've been using the Sony H. Ear wireless sometimes with the cord as well, really nice headphones. Especially with the ANC

 

[tadpoles]

I thought this was good information. Mike Dee, I believe this is the link you'd shared earlier:

https://www.cnet.com/news/headphone...d-to-know-about-low-vs-high-impedance-models/