Who is To Blame for giant phones?

[A895]

Fact check? lol S800 and 2GB RAM isn't powerful enough for you? Just google up Xperia Z1 Compact, a compact device with no compromises. Too bad I can't post links else I'd share it.

The upcoming Z3 compact will boast S801 and 3GB of RAM.

Alpha is a nice device, but the battery is worse than mediocre, just 1860 mAh.

Other than the battery size, the Alpha is superior to the Z1 Compact in every way. Also, there is nothing substantial on the Z3 compact either, so I don't know how you assume it will blow any phone out of the water.

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[A895]

For reference, if anyone reads the actual thread, I mentioned the Z1 compact. I also mentioned how more devices should be like the Z1C. Please read through the thread so things that you may want to mention may have been already touched on, thanks.

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[codyoehl]

Other than the battery size, the Alpha is superior to the Z1 Compact in every way. Also, there is nothing substantial on the Z3 compact either, so I don't know how you assume it will blow any phone out of the water.

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Exactly! A snapdragon 801 doesn't cut it. Current phones are using that, if you are going to put out a next generation of phones, they need to have at least an 805 chip. So if anything, it would be competing with current phones, not blowing anything out of the water

(I'm hoping the GS6 has a 2k display, a snapdragon 810 processor, it will probably have a 805 but you know I can dream, and is either the same size as GS5 or a little bit smaller)

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[diesteldorf]

I've yet to find the perfect phone, so everything has been a compromise for me.

My first smartphone was a Verizon Droid X. With a screen of 4.3 inches, it was the reason I made the jump to a smartphone in the first place. Prior phones had smaller screens that I knew would make typing (I have large hands) and streaming media difficult.

However, it had bloatware, was skinned with the original full Motoblur, locked bootloader, and slow updates.

Because of this, I learned ADB, rooting, romming, and was able to "overcome" Motoblur, bloatware, but wasn't able to ever gain the full freedom of an unlocked bootloader, and it was 3G only.

When I decided to upgrade, I chose the Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It still had a larger screen, unlocked bootloader, little bloatware, and was 4G. However, it didn't have the signal penetration that my Droid X had and I missed the Motorola hardware.

I kept my Galaxy Nexus for nearly 2 years, but it was showing its age. My priority was to keep the freedom of an unlocked bootloader on Verizon, little bloatware, a stock android experience, and large screen.

At the time, my choices on Verizon were limited. I was considering a Moto X Developer Edition or a Nexus 7 LTE. At the time, the Moto X DE was around $650 new ($550 used). I was able to find a gently used Nexus 7 LTE for $300.

I chose to go with the much cheaper Nexus 7 LTE. It helped my transition that I never used my phone much to call anyway. On the positive side, streaming media, accessing the internet, and running many apps, was much easier with the Nexus 7. However, it was definitely not pocketable, and made texting and calling not as convenient, but I probably only call and text 25% of the time, so I made due.

Since then, I got a Moto X DE when the price dropped significantly. It's a great phone, but I still use my Nexus 7 as well, due to the larger screen size.

My hope, when I decide to upgrade, will be that Verizon will carry the Moto X+1 Developer Edition. I don't know if I'll purchase right away or wait a year for the price to drop. I'm sure the phone will be good for updates and running modern apps for at least two years. I'll probably miss having a 7 inch screen, but I'll compromise and make due.

There are people like me that genuinely like large screened devices, to stream media and use certain apps. For others, a large screened device is a compromise for having cutting edge specs. They may also install software-based apps to better allow them to handle the phone, making it less unwieldy.

To directly address, A895's question, I think many people enjoy the freedom of having one device, streaming media, running certain apps, and reading email are easier on a larger screen.

I also agree that many companies may not have the financial resources or desire to release a regular and small screened flagship.

As someone who has used a Nexus 7 as his primary device for 8-9 months, I can say with certainty that few people would want their primary device that big, so I am betting that future phones will level out at at somewhere between 5-6 inches.

We may not see a new top tiered phone with less than a 5 inch screen for a long time. However, I also think specs are becoming less important and LG and Samsung smaller screened-tier 2-devices will have specs that will be more than fine for most, without sacrificing performance. I could easily use a Moto X well into 2015.

A895 and others may need to make compromises too: Dealing with a larger device and deal with the inconvenience that comes from carrying and using a larger device, or having a smaller device, lower specs, rooting to get longer updates, while enjoying the increased portability and ease of making calls.

Priorities will always vary from person to person, but regardless of where the OEMs go, no phone will ever be "perfect" and the name of the game is compromise.

 

[A895]

I've yet to find the perfect phone, so everything has been a compromise for me.

My first smartphone was a Verizon Droid X. With a screen of 4.3 inches, it was the reason I made the jump to a smartphone in the first place. Prior phones had smaller screens that I knew would make typing (I have large hands) and streaming media difficult.

However, it had bloatware, was skinned with the original full Motoblur, locked bootloader, and slow updates.

Because of this, I learned ADB, rooting, romming, and was able to "overcome" Motoblur, bloatware, but wasn't able to ever gain the full freedom of an unlocked bootloader, and it was 3G only.

When I decided to upgrade, I chose the Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It still had a larger screen, unlocked bootloader, little bloatware, and was 4G. However, it didn't have the signal penetration that my Droid X had and I missed the Motorola hardware.

I kept my Galaxy Nexus for nearly 2 years, but it was showing its age. My priority was to keep the freedom of an unlocked bootloader on Verizon, little bloatware, a stock android experience, and large screen.

At the time, my choices on Verizon were limited. I was considering a Moto X Developer Edition or a Nexus 7 LTE. At the time, the Moto X DE was around $650 new ($550 used). I was able to find a gently used Nexus 7 LTE for $300.

I chose to go with the much cheaper Nexus 7 LTE. It helped my transition that I never used my phone much to call anyway. On the positive side, streaming media, accessing the internet, and running many apps, was much easier with the Nexus 7. However, it was definitely not pocketable, and made texting and calling not as convenient, but I probably only call and text 25% of the time, so I made due.

Since then, I got a Moto X DE when the price dropped significantly. It's a great phone, but I still use my Nexus 7 as well, due to the larger screen size.

My hope, when I decide to upgrade, will be that Verizon will carry the Moto X+1 Developer Edition. I don't know if I'll purchase right away or wait a year for the price to drop. I'm sure the phone will be good for updates and running modern apps for at least two years. I'll probably miss having a 7 inch screen, but I'll compromise and make due.

There are people like me that genuinely like large screened devices, to stream media and use certain apps. For others, a large screened device is a compromise for having cutting edge specs. They may also install software-based apps to better allow them to handle the phone, making it less unwieldy.

To directly address, A895's question, I think many people enjoy the freedom of having one device, streaming media, running certain apps, and reading email are easier on a larger screen.

I also agree that many companies may not have the financial resources or desire to release a regular and small screened flagship.

As someone who has used a Nexus 7 as his primary device for 8-9 months, I can say with certainty that few people would want their primary device that big, so I am betting that future phones will level out at at somewhere between 5-6 inches.

We may not see a new top tiered phone with less than a 5 inch screen for a long time. However, I also think specs are becoming less important and LG and Samsung smaller screened-tier 2-devices will have specs that will be more than fine for most, without sacrificing performance. I could easily use a Moto X well into 2015.

A895 and others may need to make compromises too: Dealing with a larger device and deal with the inconvenience that comes from carrying and using a larger device, or having a smaller device, lower specs, rooting to get longer updates, while enjoying the increased portability and ease of making calls.

Priorities will always vary from person to person, but regardless of where the OEMs go, no phone will ever be "perfect" and the name of the game is compromise.

While your post is one is the most reasonable ones here, I have to say that I still highly doubt putting money towards a high end device at a shake form factor is bad. Consider the fact that these manufacturers put out dozens of these devices a year, would it be that bad to have a snake device that does not have sucky internals?

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[Farish]

The thing is, I am arguing for better specs in smaller form factors yet everyone here is arguing against that for some unknown reason, yet manufacturers spend millions on making devices that flop all the time, what is the problem with having a better choice?

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But didn't you mention the Moto X as being one of the best, I believe it is. And for that phone it isn't about specs, but user experience. That is up to oems to decide.

We are in an era that unless you are a spec nerd, that specs are just selling points that won't make in most cases a noticeable difference to the human eye.

 

[A895]

What I am saying is that when we go for "smaller" screens nowadays, we sacrifice power and the fact if we want to have updates over the length of our cellphone contracts. Why am I forced to get something out of my comfort zone in order to have a good experience?

I don't care what anyone says, I see it as an unfair situation. But I see I am the minority. Maybe I should move platforms then.

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[LeoRex]

Alpha is a nice device, but the battery is worse than mediocre, just 1860 mAh.

But with a 720p screen, that size battery won't be that much of a liability... Screens are what kill batteries... The more pixels to push, the more those milliamps get munched.

A 720p amoled screen will be pretty frugal when it comes to usage, so I bet the alpha's battery stats will be fine. With the iPhone going to 4.7, that phone is clearly Samsung covering its bases. And the will be other phones around the same size, there already are, it's just a matter of carriers offering them.

But those 5 to 5.5 screens will still dominate Android phones.. They are simply better media platforms.

 

[A895]

But didn't you mention the Moto X as being one of the best, I believe it is. And for that phone it isn't about specs, but user experience. That is up to oems to decide.

We are in an era that unless you are a spec nerd, that specs are just selling points that won't make in most cases a noticeable difference to the human eye.

If you read my OP, I owned a Moto X and broke it and I am back on my old phone for the past 4-5 months. I want to get another phone and the Moto X may be it, but at the same time it is getting a year old and Android phones only get updates for 18 months. By the time February rolls around, the Moto X will be going EOL.

And that is where the inspiration for this thread came from, why do I have to settle, as a consumer I want more choice in devices in that size range.

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[monsieurms]

Don't twist facts.

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I'm lost. You conceded they don't have a majority share. That's how they are in the minority. Apple only makes Apple. But Android is made by lots of people.
Even in the USA, while Apple may be the single largest seller, they only have a minority share of the total market--about 1/3rd. That's a fact. Here's a cite for it. If you have contrary views to that, could you tell me what it's based on? Apple has a minority share of the total market in the USA.

The 5 best-selling phones in the U.S. are from just 2 companies: Apple and Samsung | VentureBeat | Gadgets | by John Koetsier

Regarding the rest of the world, it is far worse.

Android, iOS Market Share Data And Apple's iPhone 6 - Business Insider

Here are a couple of quotes from that article:

"Apple's market share for the iPhone slipped year on year to just 11.7% of the entire market, while Android's market share increased to 84.7%. Similarly, while Apple sold 35.2 million phones last quarter, an increase of 4 million; Android phones reached 255.3 million new buyers, an increase of 64 million new phones, IDC reports.
In other words, there are seven Android phones sold for every one iPhone."

On the topic in question, btw, you might note this quote about the need for the i6 to be bigger:

"It's mere size is crucial if Apple is to beat back the Android threat. As we've noted repeatedly, and as Apple admits internally, demand is strongest for phones that have large screens and cost under $300 — and Apple doesn't sell either of those things. Those are Android phones, basically. The research company Jana just published some new data on international demand for large-screen smartphones. In fast-developing countries — where all the new demand is — people mostly want screen above 5 inches in size. "

 

[A895]

I'm lost. You conceded they don't have a majority share. That's how they are in the minority. Apple only makes Apple. But Android is made by lots of people.
Even in the USA, while Apple may be the single largest seller, they only have a minority share of the total market--about 1/3rd. That's a fact. Here's a cite for it. If you have contrary views to that, could you tell me what it's based on? Apple has a minority share of the total market in the USA.

The 5 best-selling phones in the U.S. are from just 2 companies: Apple and Samsung | VentureBeat | Gadgets | by John Koetsier

Regarding the rest of the world, it is far worse.

Android, iOS Market Share Data And Apple's iPhone 6 - Business Insider

Here are a couple of quotes from that article:

"Apple's market share for the iPhone slipped year on year to just 11.7% of the entire market, while Android's market share increased to 84.7%. Similarly, while Apple sold 35.2 million phones last quarter, an increase of 4 million; Android phones reached 255.3 million new buyers, an increase of 64 million new phones, IDC reports.
In other words, there are seven Android phones sold for every one iPhone."

On the topic in question, btw, you might note this quote about the need for the i6 to be bigger:

"It's mere size is crucial if Apple is to beat back the Android threat. As we've noted repeatedly, and as Apple admits internally, demand is strongest for phones that have large screens and cost under $300 — and Apple doesn't sell either of those things. Those are Android phones, basically. The research company Jana just published some new data on international demand for large-screen smartphones. In fast-developing countries — where all the new demand is — people mostly want screen above 5 inches in size. "

You stepped outside of the U.S. towards the end. U.S. numbers indicate Apple still holds over 40% market share, but that is not the issue, you said they are a minority, when I said specifically in the U.S. they are the second biggest, I am talking about manufacturers individually and not operating systems.

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[monsieurms]

You stepped outside of the U.S. towards the end. U.S. numbers indicate Apple still holds over 40% market share, but that is not the issue, you said they are a minority, when I said specifically in the U.S. they are the second biggest, I am talking about manufacturers individually and not operating systems.

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Yes, I stepped outside the USA at the end, but after I had already addressed the USA specifically.

Look. Even you keep saying 40%. 40% is a minority by definition. The statistic I quoted was even less that that, actually, but can't we even agree that 40% is a minority? The market is 100%. 40% is a minority share because 60% is held by others.

You can have the last word.

 

[A895]

Yes, I stepped outside the USA at the end, but after I had already addressed the USA specifically.

Look. Even you keep saying 40%. 40% is a minority by definition. The statistic I quoted was even less that that, actually, but can't we even agree that 40% is a minority? The market is 100%. 40% is a minority share because 60% is held by others.

You can have the last word.

I can, turns out we are both wrong, Apple is the #1 smartphone manufacturer in the U.S., with 41%! Samsung only has 27%!

https://www.comscore.com/Insights/M...-2014-U.S.-Smartphone-Subscriber-Market-Share

So I guess Apple has the wide lead here.

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[PFKMan23]

This is what my thread is about:

From my OP:



I don't have an answer yet besides guesses and that's is what a forum is for, we have a civil discussion going back and forth.

You accused me of jumping off base getting upset when my entire argument is based off my OP. Not upset, not off topic, if you have any concerns, please let me know, wild accusations only derail my thread.

The type of answer that you seek requires a insider of atleast Apple, Google, HTC, Samsung and Motorola. Yes, people are giving you guesses, but until you get that one person or persons who has actual knowledge (which you might dismiss anyway), you're not going to get it. My suggestion is to start calling these companies to see if you can get the information that you seek. My opinion, is that like many others who have already spoken it is a combination of market forces and supply and demand. Maybe the pedelum will swing back and maybe it won't. We'll see. But I think that for your needs, the only phones that may work for you are the Z3 compact assuming that it does get the specs it's rumored to get (essentially Z3 but smaller screen) or an iPhone. I've more or less accepted that the smaller versions of flagships will carry lesser specs. I don't like it, but I accept it.

 

[LeoRex]

Apple is the #1 smartphone manufacturer in the U.S.

And they still felt compelled to make larger screens; a 4.7 and a 5.5 later on. Apple is reacting to a market that is demanding larger screens. Apple has always dictated to their users what they should think and like, now is the other way around... That should clue you in that large screens aren't being force fed by the OEMs.

 

[A895]

And they still felt compelled to make larger screens; a 4.7 and a 5.5 later on. Apple is reacting to a market that is demanding larger screens. Apple has always dictated to their users what they should think and like, now is the other way around... That should clue you in that large screens aren't being force fed by the OEMs.

For them, I can see them enlarging it, but the 4.7 inch display still falls under my original argument. The 5.5 one is all but debunked according to MacRumors and various other Apple sites.

Apple has always reacted to the smartphone market and sometimes they lead it. My point is, why can't a smartphone manufacturer also focus on what Apple is also doing, making hand friendly devices that last a long time.

The were of course going to increase screen sizes but this is a slow change.

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[A895]

The type of answer that you seek requires a insider of atleast Apple, Google, HTC, Samsung and Motorola. Yes, people are giving you guesses, but until you get that one person or persons who has actual knowledge (which you might dismiss anyway), you're not going to get it. My suggestion is to start calling these companies to see if you can get the information that you seek. My opinion, is that like many others who have already spoken it is a combination of market forces and supply and demand. Maybe the pedelum will swing back and maybe it won't. We'll see. But I think that for your needs, the only phones that may work for you are the Z3 compact assuming that it does get the specs it's rumored to get (essentially Z3 but smaller screen) or an iPhone. I've more or less accepted that the smaller versions of flagships will carry lesser specs. I don't like it, but I accept it.

So I guess then I will have to switch platforms, my problem is that I want the power and mobility but don't want to leave Android, hence my thread, but I guess the iPhone is the only way to go.

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[PFKMan23]

So I guess then I will have to switch platforms, my problem is that I want the power and mobility but don't want to leave Android, hence my thread, but I guess the iPhone is the only way to go.

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If the Z3 Compact works out like some rumors suspect, that might be the other option. But that might be the only miniature phone that still retains flagship level specs. But who knows, maybe in a year or two, people will clamor for a reduction in screen sizes. All I know is that if you want top level specs on Android, be prepared for atleast a 5" screen with very little exception.

 

[Farish]

If you read my OP, I owned a Moto X and broke it and I am back on my old phone for the past 4-5 months. I want to get another phone and the Moto X may be it, but at the same time it is getting a year old and Android phones only get updates for 18 months. By the time February rolls around, the Moto X will be going EOL.

And that is where the inspiration for this thread came from, why do I have to settle, as a consumer I want more choice in devices in that size range.

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http://www.droid-life.com/2014/08/05/yup-moto-will-receive-android-l/

I am sure that if there are any minor updates to Android L afterwards, that the Moto X will get it.

This is an industry problem. That problem is Google 3-4 years ago and came out we will support phones our phones for 18 months and everybody started to follow.

The policy really should be, we will stop supporting phones 18 months after we stop selling the device.

 

[A895]

If the Z3 Compact works out like some rumors suspect, that might be the other option. But that might be the only miniature phone that still retains flagship level specs. But who knows, maybe in a year or two, people will clamor for a reduction in screen sizes. All I know is that if you want top level specs on Android, be prepared for atleast a 5" screen with very little exception.

I love Verizon and I highly doubt any Sony phone is hitting Verizon any time soon.

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