An open letter to the moderators of this forum

[Aquila]

Free speech is not a guaranteed thing at any privately owned forum. You are subject to the posted rules and regulations.

I feel like this is common sense, but I wish that we could have either a couple of regular members or the leader of the moderators explain it so that confused people would understand their choices.

 

[byeblackberry]

Before you remove this thread or claim it is not in the right spot, let me just say that this is the perfect spot. I am a GS4 owner and this is the only part of the forum I visit, and I suspect it is the only part that a lot of members have visited. Furthermore, the moderators recently closed a thread after the discussion of how certain mods are acting went public. It is clear that a public discussion needs to occur and this is the perfect time and place for it. I want to reiterate that no one has done anything wrong to me and all moderators have been polite, cordial, professional, and so far just with me. However, I see certain ones picking on others or throwing out sarcastic jabs every now and then it has left a sour taste in my mouth and many others'.

In another thread a moderator made the arrogant claim of saying "Doesn't really matter what you say. Its a mods decision on whether the thread stays up or not" after someone jokingly said they should close the thread. Another one went on to say "If that makes us a "boss" then fine, but that's your title for us, not our title for ourselves." This is wrong and not in good spirit. I am a surgeon by profession and I do not have time to write letters like this or to engage in silly online fights. I merely want to state my opinion (and not to any one particular moderator thats why PMing is not an option). I am surrounded daily by power tripping and arrogant people so I know one when I see one. To add another divot to this tumulus of evidence, many members have come forth in the previous thread and stated they were unhappy as well. This is an open forum, why not discuss it publicly? If you make people PM you , then all you've done is take the forum out of "forum." You know dictators use a similar technique except its termed "oppression" and "divide and conquer."

The question from the previous thread, which is now locked, remains. Why is it that certain moderators (really I think we can all name the one or two) feel the need to jut out as much arrogance as they can? What is it that goes on in your real life that makes you want to make a forum for phones so unpleasant. Its a sad state of affairs when one feels overpowered and bothered by moderators.

Please help us understand why people's requests for a more lax environment have gone unanswered and why some moderators are so heavy handed with their words. This is not meant to be an adversarial relationship but rather a community. If the health and enjoyment of this board is of any concern you will let an open, civil, and honest discussion occur in this thread.

You hit the nail on the head and it was validated by comments that were made after your post.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Farish]

Typical response. Only after I was called a name by a Mod. Wow

Posted via Android Central App

Here we go again with the name calling. Don't get flustered because you're wrong.

Posted via Android Central App

I totally agree with your post. I said thanks internet police officer to someone before and was told to stop the name calling and then was called a name by the mod. I questioned this tactic and was given a warning buy another mod that was no part of the conversation.

Posted via Android Central App

You know that whole snarky incident happen almost a month ago.

That must be eating you up inside for you to react like this after so long.

Was the issue and pent up anger was because she told you to stop acting like that? Or was it because a woman that told you to stop acting like that.

Cause that is a lot of hate for a word like snarky.

 

[Paul627g]

I feel like this is common sense, but I wish that we could have either a couple of regular members or the leader of the moderators explain it so that confused people would understand their choices.

Kevin O'Quinn is the Moderator Team Leader for Android Central.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using AC Forums mobile app

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

I feel like this needs to be said:

We (obviously) have an extremely diverse membership here. We strive to make the forums an inviting place for people to post opinions and questions, and to seek and give advice when needed. I think as a whole the Ambassadors and Moderators do a great job. I've been here long enough to have seen the ups and downs, so I know both sides of the coin.

With such a diverse group, it's going to be impossible to please everyone, no matter how hard we try. Sometimes, we get a very vocal group of members that cries foul. That might sound like a bad term, "cries foul", but hear me out. As a group, the Mods think we do a great job (wouldn't any group think that?). Every so often a discussion like the one going on in this thread comes along, and we hear from members that aren't happy with how we're doing things here. A few things are extremely similar:

1) Some of the loudest voices have run afoul of the forum rules.

2) The vast majority of members don't care about these discussions, because honestly, they don't affect them. Ok, maybe they do, in that they get caught up in the "mayhem", but they don't receive any direct negative attention from the Mods. I.E. they aren't breaking any rules.

3) The Mods will have a lengthy discussion about what's being talked about. We wouldn't be a very good group of people if we couldn't take constructive criticism, learn from our mistakes, make changes when necessary, and grow, right?

That last point is one that I want to touch on a bit more. Criticism is good. So are alternate viewpoints. It helps bring about new ideas and ways of thinking. Criticism, when said wrong, comes across in an entirely different way. It comes across negatively, and sometimes as an attack. How do people react to being attacked? Guess what folks, we're the same way. We will take any constructive criticism and adjust policies and procedures accordingly when warranted.

That's the point I try to make every time a discussion like this comes along. We LIKE the criticism, but there are ways to go about it. PM me. I'll be more than happy to discuss having a thread like this, instead of it happening the way it did (which was the entirely WRONG way to get to this result).

Thanks

 

[Imnutsnj]

Here we go again with the name calling. Don't get flustered because you're wrong.

Posted via Android Central App

Let it go shafer0219.

I didn't take Kevin's post as calling you a name, it looks more to me like he's speaking about some of your prior posts and your I'm never wrong attitude. If you disagree with something one of the moderators have said or done, just PM the individual, they're not difficult to get along with. The one or two issues that I've had in the forums were handled in a PM quickly, professionally and politely.


Sent from my HTC DNA

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

First, I completely agree with the OP. Second, I appreciate Kevin allowing this discussion to take place without shutting it down immediately. I still say a moderator's job is to moderate, not to become involved in the debates and conversations going on here. If a moderator wants to make a comment related to the conversation then he or she should do so without the moderator signage attached to his or her avatar. If a user disagrees with a moderator they run the risk of being cautioned or warned because of their comment. There is even a moderator/editor who cruises in and threatens people. I visit and am a member of numerous forums and this is the only one where the relationship between the moderators and the users is contentious. I hope the moderators take a look at the issue and make this a more user friendly forum. Human behaviorists will tell you that if a few people speak out on an issue there are undoubtedly many others who feel the same but won't voice their concerns.

You can say my name. I don't mind.

If i come to a thread and tell you what I will do if you continue to do something, it is because I have had emails from other members sent to me personally about the behavior. During the day I'm too busy to respond to reported posts, as any of the moderators here can tell you, but my name is easy to click to send complaints to.

If I get called away because enough people tell me someone is acting like a jackass, I respond and consider it finished. If I said anything and didn't just click a button, that's because my best judgement said to NOT click the button on someone.

And sometimes, my judgement tells me to say nothing at all.

I want everyone here to have fun. Everyone, including people who are offended at something or another. If your words aren't hateful, racist, or lies I'll let it go if nobody is offended. I appreciate a good, classy troll as much as anyone else.

I also refrain from moderating any thread I'm participating in, solely on principle and not because I can't spot obvious issues.

Edited to add: I'm also very accessible jerry@androidcentral.com show me consideration and be civil, and you'll get not only the same in return, but likely my appreciation and any help I can give. Kevin, as Moderator Team Leader and Paul, as the Most Exalted Potentate of the Awesome Ambassador Team (sorry, but those guys are god damn rockstars) are in communication at all times. Help us to help you.

 

[byeblackberry]

Let it go shafer0219.

I didn't take Kevin's post as calling you a name, it looks more to me like he's speaking about some of your prior posts and your I'm never wrong attitude. If you disagree with something one of the moderators have said or done, just PM the individual, they're not difficult to get along with. The one or two issues that I've had in the forums were handled in a PM quickly, professionally and politely.



Sent from my HTC DNA

I've been wrong plenty times. You don't know the previous conversations so you should probably just mind your own business.

 

[Ry]

Last I checked, this wasn't a private conversation. Anyone that has access to it can reply.

But the OP decided this needed to be aired out in the open. And with it comes more eyes. This is the attention that group wanted.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[fantom305]

First answer: Read the post.
Second answer: False, both legally and in practice, in both forums and in McDonald's (there are more letters in that name).

My question: Do you have a point?

This is my point : Refrain from Backseat Modding - refers to ordinary users taking a moderator-like tone in criticizing other members. Do not do this.

 

[byeblackberry]

You know that whole snarky incident happen almost a month ago.

That must be eating you up inside for you to react like this after so long.

Was the issue and pent up anger was because she told you to stop acting like that? Or was it because a woman that told you to stop acting like that.

Cause that is a lot of hate for a word like snarky.

You don't tell someone to stop doing something and then turn around and do it yourself. Its called leading by example.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Aquila]

This is my point : Refrain from Backseat Modding - refers to ordinary users taking a moderator-like tone in criticizing other members. Do not do this.

No problem.Click the triangle next to the post number and let the mods know if you feel I'm violating the rules. What I believe I was doing was responding, from the perspective of another member, to the concerns raised by the original author. I'm really not trying to be combative, but merely to show there are various ways to view and participate within these interactions. That's one reason I specifically signed it as "not a moderator, etc". Clearly you disagree, so my post was ineffectual. Allow me to explain:

I'm not really sure there is any way either of us could tell each other how/what to post without it being construed as "back seat modding", and I'm not entirely sure where you got that from either of my posts. I don't feel that outlining choices and telling someone what to do are equivocal practices, nor was I criticizing anyone, aside from the author's presumption in calling others arrogant while in full defiance of multiple requests by many members to take their antics offline. I certainly wasn't doing so in a mod-like tone though, given that my response as a moderator would have been to outright smite someone ignoring those requests, rather than presenting, yet again, an invitation to observe the rules.

Some people feel things are too totalitarian, however in some cases many others feel that they're too forgiving for repeat offenders who straddle the lines of propriety. I'm not sure you're attempting to understand my posts though, but rather possibly feeling defensive and a need to react to them. If that is accurate, please use the report button. I assure you, the mods are not shy about letting me or most others know when they think I'm crossing a line.

 

[anon5664829]

First, I completely agree with the OP. Second, I appreciate Kevin allowing this discussion to take place without shutting it down immediately. I still say a moderator's job is to moderate, not to become involved in the debates and conversations going on here. If a moderator wants to make a comment related to the conversation then he or she should do so without the moderator signage attached to his or her avatar. If a user disagrees with a moderator they run the risk of being cautioned or warned because of their comment. There is even a moderator/editor who cruises in and threatens people. I visit and am a member of numerous forums and this is the only one where the relationship between the moderators and the users is contentious. I hope the moderators take a look at the issue and make this a more user friendly forum. Human behaviorists will tell you that if a few people speak out on an issue there are undoubtedly many others who feel the same but won't voice their concerns.

Mods that post in threads never moderate that thread. Fact.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[anon5664829]

I do not mind the mods,they are all great! As you can see I haven't exactly been keeping up to following the rules(from my infraction points) but never have they swore at me or insulted me. They were all polite and during exchanges with them I could really see that they did not want to use their power.


I sincerely thank the moderating team for doing an excellent job with this forum.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[fantom305]

No problem.Click the triangle next to the post number and let the mods know if you feel I'm violating the rules. What I believe I was doing was responding, from the perspective of another member, to the concerns raised by the original author. I'm really not trying to be combative, but merely to show there are various ways to view and participate within these interactions. That's one reason I specifically signed it as "not a moderator, etc". Clearly you disagree, so my post was ineffectual. Allow me to explain:

I'm not really sure there is any way either of us could tell each other how/what to post without it being construed as "back seat modding", and I'm not entirely sure where you got that from either of my posts. I don't feel that outlining choices and telling someone what to do are equivocal practices, nor was I criticizing anyone, aside from the author's presumption in calling others arrogant while in full defiance of multiple requests by many members to take their antics offline. I certainly wasn't doing so in a mod-like tone though, given that my response as a moderator would have been to outright smite someone ignoring those requests, rather than presenting, yet again, an invitation to observe the rules.

Some people feel things are too totalitarian, however in some cases many others feel that they're too forgiving for repeat offenders who straddle the lines of propriety. I'm not sure you're attempting to understand my posts though, but rather possibly feeling defensive and a need to react to them. If that is accurate, please use the report button. I assure you, the mods are not shy about letting me or most others know when they think I'm crossing a line.

Well allow me to show you where I got it from : I have found, that for those people that are following the rules, which can be found here: http://forums.androidcentral.com/faq...es#faq_acrules , this is a very easy to get along with moderation team. If you're having issues, a first step might be to self examine the respectfulness of your conduct relative to the context of those rules and the tone of the situation for which you're choosing to insert yourself. If you believe this letter to be polite, the arrogance you perceive is going two directions.

If, given all of these resources for recourse you find yourself still unable to reconcile your behavioral preferences with this location, it definitely is an at-will relationship and you're free to quit it. There is no freedom of speech implied in the forums section of a privately owned website. If you want a place to say whatever you want in whatever manner you choose, either find a site that has terms of usage that match your needs, or start your own.
They way you come across here is like you are telling people what to do when I believe it is not yours nor mine position to do so. We are here to learn and try to help others in their quest for knowledge that by one way or another we have acquired and I don't believe it is our jobs to tell anyone how/what to post. That is the moderator's job, and that is the reason for my first question. Personally I don't have any problem with any of the moderators and I couldn't care less whether they existed or not because I try not to violate the rules of posting. See the internet is a very broad area with no specific written rules per se. Yes it is controlled by the FEDS in specific situations but one can only try to apply the rules of the country, and the state in which the site resides and that is why I gave the MC Donald example.
I am not here to throw any one under the bus by reporting you or anyone else in this forums unless I felt I was being disrespected. My position here is not to control who thinks in a totalitarian way or who think in a forgiving way, but I have seen many others that would jump into a new threat from some one that perhaps did not do his homework searching before posting and posted something that has been previously discussed. One specific answer was: This thread has been discussed before....moderator take this thread down, or why don't you search before you post ? As grown persons that we are we should be able to advise and not direct others in their needs. And no I am not being defensive nor reacting in a combative manner to your comments.

 

[Aquila]

And no I am not being defensive nor reacting in a combative manner to your comments.

I said possibly because I'm not sure if we're both trying to seek resolution or just talking at each other.

Yeah, I often times just post links to the previous threads and ask people to ask their question in there because there are more subscribers and they're more likely to get the right person to view their thread and be able to help. I don't think of that as moderating though. I'm really not trying to fight you on this, I just was trying to provide my perspective from a member standpoint. That's why I started with, "I have found", etc. You're probably right that I could have worded it better, but that's what happens when fingers fly on keyboards.

 

[tohio]

...Are you a human behaviorist (Sociologist?)? If not, then you're statement will be just as credible as the one I'm about to make:

The voice of the few does not mean the majority feel the same way. Likewise, it doesn't mean the majority will always get there way, or that the few will be ignored. We have hundreds of thousands of members. If the majority felt that weren't doing a good job wouldn't they just leave? Wouldn't membership be down? And new posts, and new threads? Every indication is that we're growing at a substantial rate.

Obviously the voice of the few is not being ignored (as indicated by my participation in this thread), but that does not mean that it will dictate the policy of the forums. Just like all the other threads of this nature that I've participated in, what's said will definitely be discussed and taken into consideration.

"Recognising this phenomenon, BA decided to conduct its own research to see what happened with its complaints procedure. Remarkably, they discovered that only 8% of customer complaints were ever registered with a customer services representative ? in other words, just the tip of the iceberg. Instead, 23% talked to the nearest employee, and a further 69% suffered in silence and did not tell anyone at BA. Had BA been basing its customer satisfaction on the number of complaints received they would have only been looking at a tiny part of the total picture."
Customer Complaints - They Are Just the Tip of The Iceberg!

 

[tohio]

Mods that post in threads never moderate that thread. Fact.

Posted via Android Central App

That is simply not true. Hopefully one of the moderators will confirm this to you. I do not want to single any moderator out at this point because this is a constructive thread and I don't want to derail it with perceived personal attacks or accusations.

 

[anon5664829]

That is simply not true. Hopefully one of the moderators will confirm this to you. I do not want to single any moderator out at this point because this is a constructive thread and I don't want to derail it with perceived personal attacks or accusations.

OK let's have a mod confirm what I said.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[madlaw1071]

There are at least two things that tick people about the AC mods:

1. Unlike most forums, the mods here actively participate and in some case agitate a thread all the while flashing the mod badge. We had a huge blow up a couple months ago when a mod that was a self professed HTC fan stirred up the S4 threads with accusations against Samsung and active argument with members attempting to defend Samsung. When conversations got heated, he flashed the mod badge.

2. I actively participate in the S4 and One threads and the mods are far more harsh towards S4 posters than One posters and hand out public discipline to S4 owners and let One posters off with a private admonishment if that. Even worse, the mods here say they will respond to PMs but they pick and choose what to respond to. For example, I was viciously attacked in a PM in a personal and unprovoked manner. I followed forum rules and didn't engage the poster but reported the post and PMed two mods. The offending poster(a One fan) received no warning or violation and the mods have ignored my PMs of protest.

FWIW