Not sure why there's so much dislike for Touchwiz

[fade2black101]

There's no denying that TouchWiz causes slight stuttering whereas something like the later HTC Sense do not.

I've got a HTC One (2013), a Note 2 and a Note 3 next to me right now and I find the old HTC more fluid than the Note 3. I also have issues with the gaps in between widgets on TW... so much wasted space and it really bothers me enough to change launchers.

It's a shame, but TW really does need a lot more polish. I'm hoping the S5's version addresses these problems.

I'm inclined to reject any suggestion that any TouchWiz device is "flawless" in performance. Not sure any phone is tbh, but TouchWiz is certainly more prone to stutters and lag than Sense or Stock. At the end of day I'll probably stick with Samsung as I like some of their features, but I do wish they continue improving TW from both a performance and asthetics perspective. The performance did get better from Note II to III, but I'm still not a fan of, for instance, the grid size on the TW launcher.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

I asked for Cached Processes, cause you seem to be relying on people's ignorance WRT how Android manages memory to put forth this perception that TouchWiz uses 2x the RAM as HTC Sense.

TouchWiz Home uses < 80MB RAM on my Note 3. Flipboard is cached on startup and uses over 110MB.

I want to see the cached processes on both phones, not what's "Running."

No, you're confusing how the RAM is used. You want to try to pick it apart. Samsung chose what starts on boot. This is how the average user would see the device (except for MyMagazine, I turned it off).

I didn't compare TouchWiz Home to Sense Launcher (or whatever they call it) and normal users aren't going to differentiate it like that either. When you hit the graph button in the multi tasking menu it shows total RAM used. On the M8 the icon looks different, but does the same thing.

If you would prefer I can start saying "Samsung is terrible at RAM management but TouchWiz is nice and "light" ". Would that be more acceptable?

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

An argument could be made that HTC is more forthcoming WRT what they show the user. It's much easier for me to tell what's actually using the RAM on the M8 than it is on the S5. Maybe save that discussion for another day though.


My dislike for TouchWiz isn't RAM usage though. It's the fact that they flattened it out but didn't actually streamline it all that much like they said. The Settings Menu doesn't have all the tabs, but it still has far too much scrolling involved to get to what you want. Quick Settings also has too much going on still. Granted, those are preferences, but those are also my critiques.

It does look MUCH nicer now, though.

 

[iN8ter]

No, you're confusing how the RAM is used. You want to try to pick it apart. Samsung chose what starts on boot. This is how the average user would see the device (except for MyMagazine, I turned it off).

I didn't compare TouchWiz Home to Sense Launcher (or whatever they call it) and normal users aren't going to differentiate it like that either. When you hit the graph button in the multi tasking menu it shows total RAM used. On the M8 the icon looks different, but does the same thing.

If you would prefer I can start saying "Samsung is terrible at RAM management but TouchWiz is nice and "light" ". Would that be more acceptable?

Makes no sense.

I want to see where the ram is being used.

So you seriously think Google Play services is using 0b RAM on the MS. Use your eyes, and just provide the cache screen shots of devices so we can see a ton of non TouchWiz apps are using ram in a cache.

Etc.

I fully understand what's going on. You're trying to state half of what's going on an attribute things loaded on the phone to TW when they aren't.

We're discussing the weight of TW not an average user. So I dunno why you're even wasting time with that dialog. I only asked for the cache screen shots. Nothing else.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Makes no sense.

I want to see where the ram is being used.

So you seriously think Google Play services is using 0b RAM on the MS. Use your eyes, and just provide the cache screen shots of devices so we can see a ton of non TouchWiz apps are using ram in a cache.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/21/me4ugega.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/21/ydedu2yg.jpg

Etc.

I fully understand what's going on. You're trying to state half of what's going on an attribute things loaded on the phone to TW when they aren't.

We're discussing the weight of TW not an average user. So I dunno why you're even wasting time with that dialog. I only asked for the cache screen shots. Nothing else.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

I would love to do that in a fair way, but I'm not factory resetting. I did go in and try to find what you were looking for, but apparently new TouchWiz doesn't actually report what it uses for itself.

Case in point, right now 1GB is being used, but if I add up the list of running applications I only get 422.8MB. There is nothing listed that even has TouchWiz in the title.

Doing the same thing on the M8 I at least see one thing linked to Sense, which is HTC Sense Input (which is not the launcher). Out of 811MB RAM being used right now, the list of running services is 282.4MB.


The average user is the context we use here. If you say "average user doesn't matter" then neither does this entire discussion since you can just say "root and ROM it".

 

[UJ95x]

Stock S4 on top. Slim S4 on the bottom.
Seconds after reboot on both...


Sent from my Galaxy S4 running SlimKat 4.4.2

 

[iN8ter]

I would love to do that in a fair way, but I'm not factory resetting. I did go in and try to find what you were looking for, but apparently new TouchWiz doesn't actually report what it uses for itself.

Case in point, right now 1GB is being used, but if I add up the list of running applications I only get 422.8MB. There is nothing listed that even has TouchWiz in the title.

Doing the same thing on the M8 I at least see one thing linked to Sense, which is HTC Sense Input (which is not the launcher). Out of 811MB RAM being used right now, the list of running services is 282.4MB.


The average user is the context we use here. If you say "average user doesn't matter" then neither does this entire discussion since you can just say "root and ROM it".

Cached Google Apps are using over 140MB RAM on my device.

Other stuff like Calendar, Contacts, etc. are cached, and for good reason.

Tapatalk is cached and using 50MB.

Flipboard is cached and using 110MB.

ChatOn (not a preload, I loaded it up) is cached and using 58 MB.

My device is only using 1.3GB RAM and it has been running all day.
TouchWiz does not use "1GB RAM."

A ton of RAM usage on the phone is cached apps just so they start up faster when you launch them.

There is no "case in point."

It has nothing to do with factory resetting. I asked you to provide a screenshot of what's cached on the GS5 and the HTC M8. Why not just do it?

I'm not going to debate that other stuff. That is tangent to what I requested and ultimately useless to the discussion.

The average user is not monitoring the RAM usage on their device, and they certainly aren't Rooting and ROMing it. Nor are they peeping for stutters measured in low milliseconds-worth of time.

TouchWiz does not use that much RAM. There may be (I haven't checked) instances where the phone is doing something with the RAM Cache or loading a package from storage since the Samsung phones tend to use RAM more aggressively (caching nothing when you have a whole 1.3GB RAM sitting unused is ultimately not an efficient use of RAM), but that's about it.

The TouchWiz launcher and its components aren't using 1GB, and the TW in the S5 has been reviewed as being more optimized than even the Note 3's launcher software.

Also, Factory Resetting is not really that good of an indicator anyways, as the Samsung phones tend to come with screens full of widgets you won't keep on there, and Widgets are application components that use RAM when loaded onto the home screens. I can decrease my RAM usage by removing the Weather Widget from my home screen by like 20MB, for example.

The amount of RAM your phone is using depends more on what you have installed, what the OS is caching, and what you have on your home screen than whether or not you use a TouchWiz or Sense device.

I never had issues with RAM on any of my devices, even those with 1GB RAM, because I don't load a lot of crap on them. Those who load their home screens up with widgets and jump across a tonof 3rd party applications frequently will have more issues as the OS will tend to cache more processes more frequently. This typically happens on all Android phones, cause I just checked a Droid Maxx and it wasn't that far off from my phone in RAM usage (a bit less, because it has less RAm and the OS tends to leave some headroom).

Also, my Note 3 is running 4.3, not 4.4.2...

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Cached Google Apps are using over 140MB RAM on my device.

Other stuff like Calendar, Contacts, etc. are cached, and for good reason.

Tapatalk is cached and using 50MB.

Flipboard is cached and using 110MB.

ChatOn (not a preload, I loaded it up) is cached and using 58 MB.

My device is only using 1.3GB RAM and it has been running all day.
TouchWiz does not use "1GB RAM."

A ton of RAM usage on the phone is cached apps just so they start up faster when you launch them.

There is no "case in point."

It has nothing to do with factory resetting. I asked you to provide a screenshot of what's cached on the GS5 and the HTC M8. Why not just do it?

I'm not going to debate that other stuff. That is tangent to what I requested and ultimately useless to the discussion.

The average user is not monitoring the RAM usage on their device, and they certainly aren't Rooting and ROMing it. Nor are they peeping for stutters measured in low milliseconds-worth of time.

TouchWiz does not use that much RAM. There may be (I haven't checked) instances where the phone is doing something with the RAM Cache or loading a package from storage since the Samsung phones tend to use RAM more aggressively (caching nothing when you have a whole 1.3GB RAM sitting unused is ultimately not an efficient use of RAM), but that's about it.

The TouchWiz launcher and its components aren't using 1GB, and the TW in the S5 has been reviewed as being more optimized than even the Note 3's launcher software.

Also, Factory Resetting is not really that good of an indicator anyways, as the Samsung phones tend to come with screens full of widgets you won't keep on there, and Widgets are application components that use RAM when loaded onto the home screens. I can decrease my RAM usage by removing the Weather Widget from my home screen by like 20MB, for example.

The amount of RAM your phone is using depends more on what you have installed, what the OS is caching, and what you have on your home screen than whether or not you use a TouchWiz or Sense device.

Because I've tried to prove stuff to you before and you just continue to deny the evidence, so I'm not going in circles again. The information you want (you specifically called out TouchWiz Home) isn't there. Earlier screenshots weren't good enough because they didn't prove what you wanted them to. So now you want more so you can try to twist it (you've done that in various other threads as well).

TouchWiz feels heavy because it's slower. But I think I've already said that.

There was a period of time where you accused M8 owners of being defensive about the camera. You're now doing that with TouchWiz.

 

[iN8ter]

Because I've tried to prove stuff to you before and you just continue to deny the evidence, so I'm not going in circles again. The information you want (you specifically called out TouchWiz Home) isn't there. Earlier screenshots weren't good enough because they didn't prove what you wanted them to. So now you want more so you can try to twist it (you've done that in various other threads as well).

TouchWiz feels heavy because it's slower. But I think I've already said that.

There was a period of time where you accused M8 owners of being defensive about the camera. You're now doing that with TouchWiz.

You can provide the screenshots, or you can stop responding to me.

I asked for Screenshots of cached processes, and that's all I'm interested in at this point.

I have no clue why you're so adamant on not providing them.

I said the TW launcher used < 80MB on my phone.

I asked specifically for you to put a screenshot of the cached processes so we can see the difference in what each phone is loading up on startup so see how much of that attributes to the differences in used RAM. I find it oddly comical that that concept seem to be Astrophysics to some people here, as everyone is posting a RAM manager screenshot for one phone and then a Running Services screenshot for the other, while completely ignoring what I asked for and what I clearly provided from my device, which clearly demonstrates what I'm talking about.

You're taking RAM being cached for use by Google Apps, PIM apps, 3rd party apps, and attributing it to TouchWiz to "make a point." Laughable, especially since HTC has a history of modifying the Memory management in their Android Distro...

The only person who cares "how you feel" about something is you. I want the numbers, and they're in the Cached Processes screen of the Application Manager. That's all I care about.

The M8's camera is terrible. And they're still in the Twilight Zone about that camera, Lol. We've seen the comparisons with S5 and iPhone 5S and they're better. Not much to say about that. I'm not defending TouchWiz, I'm asking for you to provide some simple screenshots in about 10 different ways, and you're refusing to do so because you went in and seen what was there and want to save face.

Have a nice night.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

You can provide the screenshots, or you can stop responding to me.

I asked for Screenshots of cached processes, and that's all I'm interested in at this point.

I have no clue why you're so adamant on not providing them.

I said the TW launcher used < 80MB on my phone.

I asked specifically for you to put a screenshot of the cached processes so we can see the difference in what each phone is loading up on startup so see how much of that attributes to the differences in used RAM.

Have a nice night.

TouchWiz and Sense and both much more than a launcher.

In reference to the bold, the only way that would be fair is after a factory reset with no user installed apps, customizations, or intervention. Only then could we see the difference in what Samsung chooses to load on boot vs HTC.

 

[iN8ter]

TouchWiz and Sense and both much more than a launcher.

In reference to the bold, the only way that would be fair is after a factory reset with no user installed apps, customizations, or intervention. Only then could we see the difference in what Samsung chooses to load on boot vs HTC.

What in God's name are you talking about.

Factory resetting won't stop them from caching apps and if what you say is true... your whole argument is a crock, no? I mean didn't you use them as "proof" that TW is heavy? The apps my phone is caching are stock apps and Google apps for the most part, with some third party apps thrown in. Factory resetting will not stop the phone from using 15MB RAM to cache YouTube unless I never use YouTube, in which case it will choose another app to cache.

TouchWiz is a launcher and a design language. The other apps are skinned with features added or removed but they are not persistent services, as my screen shots clearly show. Samsung's additions are modular. The existence of features does not require they always be loaded. Features in Samsung devices are bundled with TouchWiz, but they are not necessarily persistent with the launcher. Turn Air View off and it's service is shut down and not loaded, for example.

Not sure if you even know what you're talking about when it comes to these things, at this point... This is how devs "debloat" TW ROMs while still keeping the functionality they want or need...

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

TouchWiz is a launcher

Nope

 

[iN8ter]

Nope

Yes.

And done. I'll get the screen shots myself tomorrow or Tuesday.

Bai.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnly]

The Note 3 comes with two browsers preloaded. Stock and Chrome. Use the one that works best. HTC'S M8 only comes with Chrome IIRC. At least on Verizon.

I haven't noticed that issue but stock is the only browser I've ever used on my Samsung phones. I don't tend to load or keep redundant software enabled.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

I have run many browsers on the note, and that is one example where I believe improvement can be made. I guess one can look at TW being flawless, and it meeting ones expectations at that current level, but from how I see it, there is plenty of room for improvement. Don't get me wrong, it works and does what it is supposed to; however, it could do it with more continuity.

 

[iN8ter]

I have run many browsers on the note, and that is one example where I believe improvement can be made. I guess one can look at TW being flawless, and it meeting ones expectations at that current level, but from how I see it, there is plenty of room for improvement. Don't get me wrong, it works and does what it is supposed to; however, it could do it with more continuity.

Agree. I didn't say it didn't happen. Just that I never noticed cause I have no basis for comparison. I always uninstall or disable redundant software and stick to the stock offerings.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Aquila]

Nope

Yes.

FYI - this is not really what was intended by, 'a healthy and productive debate'.

 

[Premium1]

I'll preface my post by saying prior to my note 3, I've only owned Motorola phones and nexus tablets. I found the UI's on my devices limited and always ended up using a 3rd party launcher. I even need 3rd party apps for the most basic things such as a decent battery indicator, home screen weather indicator (remember beautiful widgets?) or system toggles. In the end this just seemed to add bloat and occasional developer's bugs to my devices. I've not found it necessary to do anything to my note 3 except rearrange the screen order and replace a widget or two. I can't help but to notice the lack of love for TW. I've heard it called cartoonish, bloat, wasted resources. ... While I expect to hear this from HTC owners, I can't help but to notice some of these same comments coming from some current and past Samsung owners. In some forums, note 3 owners are eagerly anticipating and hoping we get the g5's version of TW. Honestly, this is the first and only phone I've ever owned that I've not needed to tweak or modify with a skin or app to suit my most basic phone needs. Im all about improving my phone but will be perfectly fine if i don't receive kit kat or a new version of TW. I wonder if the hatred is TW, or has Samsung become the new Apple?

Posted via Android Central App

I think people dislike touchwiz because for what seems like ever, it has slowed down even the most high end hardware. Not to mention the length it takes to get updates. I agree with your points about the usefulness of some of the added features, I just wish in some regards they would tone other areas down. I have no problem with the looks of touchwiz by any means and personally think it looks much better than the LG UI (which people seem to love even though IMO it looks like an even more cartoonish copy of touchwiz) Plus I feel a lot of the scrutiny that samsung receives is because it is the big dog when it comes to android and people want a little more from them.

 

[recDNA]

My reasons are simple. I prefer a 5x5 grid, especially with such a big screen, and I want continuous scrolling of home screens so you just keep going to get back where you started from.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

 

[rexxman]

The Settings Menu doesn't have all the tabs, but it still has far too much scrolling involved to get to what you want.

When in the Settings Menu press the menu (to the left of the home key) and it will let you toggle between Tab and List views!

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

When in the Settings Menu press the menu (to the left of the home key) and it will let you toggle between Tab and List views!

Posted via Android Central App

So much better. Still a long list, but much easier to navigate. This should be the default.

Thanks.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk