06-21-2013 08:56 PM
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  1. omniusovermind's Avatar
    This argument is going to be vastly overshadowed this summer if the latest X phone rumors end up being true. Custom build your own phone specs straight from the manufacturer with no carrier lock or ware, and a couple other things and a starting price point of $200 That's 10x more innovative and useful than the touchwiz and sense gimmicks combined. Game over. You'd be insane to buy either phone when the announcement for this will be in May.
    03-18-2013 07:51 AM
  2. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I have had absolutely no problem with "load times" or anything else using/swapping out two 32GB SD cards literally full of nothing but music, but then again, I have not been using a Samsung device. So are you saying I'm in for nothing but trouble if I buy an S4 and put all of that music on a single 64GB card?
    I wouldn't say you'll have nothing but trouble, but if your SD card randomly goes bad and can't be read anymore then blame the phone. Also, I'm not sure what third party music players work well with Samsung's implementation of the SD card. Some will look in the right place, some won't. Basically support for the SD card is being "hacked in" by Samsung. Android doesn't support it, and Google doesn't build for it.

    It'll be interesting to see if Samsung releases a tablet with 4.2.2 and multi-user support. SD cards don't play well with that at all. Actually, I'm not sure it can be done after having a few conversations with people smarter than me.
    03-18-2013 09:51 AM
  3. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    If you wanna play that game, every feature will be "gimmicky." Realistically, MicroSD is not an important option for most of the phone buying population. It's a resource that can be replaced with internal storage for most people. The OS itself is built with not having it being the preferred choice.

    I get that that may not be your preference, but companies build for the masses, not the small groups dead set on one or two particular needs.
    You're right. Companies build for the masses. Except HTC. I would venture to say that more people use SD cards than cloud storage. I don't have any data to back that up, but cloud storage is still in the early adoption phase of it's existence as companies just now are tapping into it. SD cards have been around so long, that they are in more homes. When it comes to technology, the majority of people generally are not early adopters. With an SD card, you can stil use cloud storage. Without an SD card slot, you can ONLY use cloud storage. I went with Android because I want options. I don't want Apple (HTC) telling me what I do or do not need.

    The reason I say HTC doesn't build for the masses, is because they choose a material that feels good and provides false security, but it causes production issues so they can't meet demand. Samsung might go with polycarbonate that feels cheaper, but the product is still solid and they can "build for the masses" by providing devices for the high demand that they ALWAYS have. Your last sentence could easily describe both of us. Let's keep that in mind.
    03-18-2013 10:43 AM
  4. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    You're right. Companies build for the masses. Except HTC. I would venture to say that more people use SD cards than cloud storage. I don't have any data to back that up, but cloud storage is still in the early adoption phase of it's existence as companies just now are tapping into it. SD cards have been around so long, that they are in more homes. When it comes to technology, the majority of people generally are not early adopters. With an SD card, you can stil use cloud storage. Without an SD card slot, you can ONLY use cloud storage. I went with Android because I want options. I don't want Apple (HTC) telling me what I do or do not need.

    The reason I say HTC doesn't build for the masses, is because they choose a material that feels good and provides false security, but it causes production issues so they can't meet demand. Samsung might go with polycarbonate that feels cheaper, but the product is still solid and they can "build for the masses" by providing devices for the high demand that they ALWAYS have. Your last sentence could easily describe both of us. Let's keep that in mind.
    Cloud is all well and fine, if you have unlimited data. I love my SD cards.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    03-18-2013 10:48 AM
  5. smooth3006's Avatar
    at this point i don't think the s4 development will be all that great.
    03-18-2013 10:50 AM
  6. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    There are absolutely downsides.
    Worst case scenario, it's there and you don't use it. How is that a downside? If you want it, it's there. If you don't, you wont use it. There may be downsides when you try to load 64 GB of music and video files or whatever. But if you don't want it, at least the manufacturer is offering choice for those who might want it.
    03-18-2013 10:54 AM
  7. JonCBK's Avatar
    There's way more than comes into play here, from f-stop to ISO to shutter speeds. So while a greater megapixel count does not equal a better picture, it doesn't equal a worse picture, either.
    Yes, but it becomes increasingly more challenging to get a good picture when you add megapixels at this level. So in the end it is much more likely that the phone is worse for being a 13 megapixel phone than if Samsung had used the same amount of skills on a 8 megapixel phone. And the only advantage will be on the rare rare moments when you want to crop a teeny part of the picture out and blow it up. Which you still won't be able to do and make a good picture unless you took the picture with the phone attached to a tripod since the cropped detail will show the shake from your hand.
    03-18-2013 11:01 AM
  8. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    1. Licensing to Microsoft.
    2. Need to use a depreciated file system to be compatible with desktop computers.
    3. It's very insecure. In fact, it completely ignores the Android user/group/sandbox model, and gives everyone in the world access to the data stored there -- even via the web browser.
    4. It's not supported by Android, and so far not supported by Samsung. It's just there. Samsung needs to get it integrated into the system much better.
    5. They are slow, and prone to corrupt data.

    I won't suggest that users don't need a lot of storage, but not from an SD card.
    That is a good list of potential problems with the SD card itself, but what I am wondering, is how is it a bad thing to have the option to use one? If the things you listed are too much of a sacrifice compared to the "benefits" of using an SD card, you simply don't use it and STILL have the same access to cloud storage that any other device would have. My point, is when someone says a knock on the S4 is that it has the slot, they're being ridiculous. UNLESS the manufacturer offered lower internal storage because they chose to offer a mini sd. Otherwise, no one is forcing people to use it and it doesn't change anything.
    03-18-2013 11:04 AM
  9. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    I wouldn't say you'll have nothing but trouble, but if your SD card randomly goes bad and can't be read anymore then blame the phone. Also, I'm not sure what third party music players work well with Samsung's implementation of the SD card. Some will look in the right place, some won't. Basically support for the SD card is being "hacked in" by Samsung. Android doesn't support it, and Google doesn't build for it.

    It'll be interesting to see if Samsung releases a tablet with 4.2.2 and multi-user support. SD cards don't play well with that at all. Actually, I'm not sure it can be done after having a few conversations with people smarter than me.
    PowerAmp works perfectly with SD Cards....its what I use all the time
    03-18-2013 12:52 PM
  10. TabGuy's Avatar
    I find it very fascinating that people feel so strongly against the S4, a product that isn't even out, that they feel the need to come to S4 forums and tell others that something else is better. It's an odd phenomena that I find it hard to explain? Is it some sort of insecurity? What's the point of this? Do they go to strangers on the street and tell them they chose the wrong spouse?

    I don't get that kind of behavior. Can someone explain this to me?

    Everybody has reasons for the choices they made, whether it's a phone or a spouse, why do some feel compelled to pass judgement on them?
    03-18-2013 02:54 PM
  11. Ry's Avatar
    I find it very fascinating that people feel so strongly against the S4, a product that isn't even out, that they feel the need to come to S4 forums and tell others that something else is better. It's an odd phenomena that I find it hard to explain? Is it some sort of insecurity? What's the point of this? Do they go to strangers on the street and tell them they chose the wrong spouse?

    I don't get that kind of behavior. Can someone explain this to me?

    Everybody has reasons for the choices they made, whether it's a phone or a spouse, why do some feel compelled to pass judgement on them?
    Because knocking others (Android vs. iPhone, or HTC vs. Samsung) probably makes people feel better about themselves.

    It's funny.

    Defending one corporation (whose goal is to take your money) while blasting a competing corporation (whose goal is also to take your money). Fanboys will be fanboys, I guess. It's even better - one side doesn't like your opinion so they call you a fanboy. Ridiculous.

    And it's even funnier that this S4 vs. One comparison is going on while neither device has been widely release yet.

    Spec war!
    03-18-2013 03:05 PM
  12. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Because knocking others (Android vs. iPhone, or HTC vs. Samsung) probably makes people feel better about themselves.

    It's funny.

    Defending one corporation (whose goal is to take your money) while blasting a competing corporation (whose goal is also to take your money). Fanboys will be fanboys, I guess. It's even better - one side doesn't like your opinion so they call you a fanboy. Ridiculous.

    And it's even funnier that this S4 vs. One comparison is going on while neither device has been widely release yet.

    Spec war!
    I agree. Its just like the echoes of "I hate touchwhiz, sense, blur etc. I like stock."

    A lot of it is because of this I'm going to hate whatever is popular so I look cool.

    I've got a friend that only listens to music no one else listens to. Everyone wants to be "cutting edge."

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    The Hustleman likes this.
    03-18-2013 03:13 PM
  13. TabGuy's Avatar
    Because knocking others (Android vs. iPhone, or HTC vs. Samsung) probably makes people feel better about themselves.

    It's funny.

    Defending one corporation (whose goal is to take your money) while blasting a competing corporation (whose goal is also to take your money). Fanboys will be fanboys, I guess. It's even better - one side doesn't like your opinion so they call you a fanboy. Ridiculous.

    And it's even funnier that this S4 vs. One comparison is going on while neither device has been widely release yet.

    Spec war!
    I come to these forums for advice. It makes it hard to find out about a phone with all the noise in here. Then, once I find real information, it's hard to determine if it's fact or fiction.

    I'm thinking about replacing my Galaxy Nexus. I come here for information. My phone requirements are pretty simple and minimalistic, really. 1) Must be Verizon. Don't tell me how bad Verizon is or judge me for that choice, it's Verizon and that's not negotiable. 2) Android OS. 3) Replaceable battery. That's not negotiable, with wifi tethering I can burn through a battery in about 3 hours. I don't care much about aesthetics. I can see from this thread that the One won't work for based on one or two of my minimalistic requirements. I think I've narrowed my choice to S4 or Note 2. Gonna have to wait and see.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    03-18-2013 03:17 PM
  14. TabGuy's Avatar
    I agree. Its just like the echoes of "I hate touchwhiz, sense, blur etc. I like stock."

    A lot of it is because of this I'm going to hate whatever is popular so I look cool.

    I've got a friend that only listens to music no one else listens to. Everyone wants to be "cutting edge."

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I don't really care what others choose, I only care about facts to help me choose. In fact, on my Galaxy Nexus I chose the AOKP rom over AOSP simply because it was NOT stock and it's filled with features. I don't care what the guy sitting next to me is doing and I probably won't show him my phone. Often I sit in a room full of iPhone people and they really don't care about features or they wouldn't have chosen an iPhone to begin with. Bragging about my phone only pi$$es them off and what's the point of that?
    03-18-2013 03:21 PM
  15. Love Divine's Avatar
    That is a good list of potential problems with the SD card itself, but what I am wondering, is how is it a bad thing to have the option to use one? If the things you listed are too much of a sacrifice compared to the "benefits" of using an SD card, you simply don't use it and STILL have the same access to cloud storage that any other device would have. My point, is when someone says a knock on the S4 is that it has the slot, they're being ridiculous. UNLESS the manufacturer offered lower internal storage because they chose to offer a mini sd. Otherwise, no one is forcing people to use it and it doesn't change anything.
    Did you even read his list? There are downsides to implementing it. He just listed them.

    I find it very fascinating that people feel so strongly against the S4, a product that isn't even out, that they feel the need to come to S4 forums and tell others that something else is better. It's an odd phenomena that I find it hard to explain? Is it some sort of insecurity? What's the point of this? Do they go to strangers on the street and tell them they chose the wrong spouse?

    I don't get that kind of behavior. Can someone explain this to me?

    Everybody has reasons for the choices they made, whether it's a phone or a spouse, why do some feel compelled to pass judgement on them?
    And another who misses the point of this forum.

    Then why are you in here questioning them? The whole point of being here is freely voicing and discussing opinions, just as you are doing right now. You simply dismiss their criticisms by reiterating the obvious. Of course everybody has the choice to buy whatever they want. If you have no substantive response to their opinions then don't respond at all.
    03-18-2013 03:21 PM
  16. TabGuy's Avatar
    Did you even read his list? There are downsides to implementing it. He just listed them.
    I don't know who the "he" is. My post didn't have any one particular person in mind.


    And another who misses the point of this forum.

    Then why are you in here questioning them? The whole point of being here is freely voicing and discussing opinions, just as you are doing right now. You simply dismiss their criticisms by reiterating the obvious. Of course everybody has the choice to buy whatever they want. If you have no substantive response to their opinions then don't respond at all.
    First, let me make one thing clear: I'm in no way questioning their right to say what they want. I was just asking what motivates such people.

    Why do I come here, do you ask? I'm in the market for a new phone and am looking for information about the S4 as a part of my decision process.

    You ask, "If you have no substantive response to their opinions then don't respond at all." which is, of course, a non-substansive response. I don't know how to respond to that except to say touche'.
    03-18-2013 03:27 PM
  17. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I don't really care what others choose, I only care about facts to help me choose. In fact, on my Galaxy Nexus I chose the AOKP rom over AOSP simply because it was NOT stock and it's filled with features. I don't care what the guy sitting next to me is doing and I probably won't show him my phone. Often I sit in a room full of iPhone people and they really don't care about features or they wouldn't have chosen an iPhone to begin with. Bragging about my phone only pi$$es them off and what's the point of that?
    I agree. People just get a lot of heat for liking stock samsung or htc or motorola is all I mean. If people like there flip phone, it doesn't bother me in the least.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    03-18-2013 03:27 PM
  18. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    Did you even read his list? There are downsides to implementing it. He just listed them.



    And another who misses the point of this forum.

    .
    Obviously i'm confusing you. My point is this.......his list of downsides were downsides to USING the SD cards, when you wish to store massive amounts of music, photos, etc or very sensitive information. Which is legit, but I don't do either of those things. There may be other little aspects of his list that do apply to me, but i'm not overly concerned with it because the stuff I store on them can be easily replaced if they become corrupt, stolen, or whatever. But it isn't the answer to my question. I don't worry about the downsides he listed, because I would use it to store about 8 GB of music on my phone, and it isn't a problem for me to do so with an SD card, but I don't want that music taking up the internal memory.

    So again, I will revisit my question to try to help you make sense of a very difficult concept.....If you don't want to use it because of those downsides he listed, don't use it. But just because it's there, doesn't mean the phone is less of a phone than another that doesn't have the slot. It's there for people like me who uses it, and you can ignore it if you don't use it. Therefore, the "downsides" are only downsides if someone has a gun to your head forcing you to use it. Otherwise, it doesn't affect you negatively. Please try to understand my point if you want to try and make me look/feel stupid. Clearly we look at it differently, so move on. It doesn't matter. I wont force you to have options and choices when they clearly offend you and are insulting to the core.
    03-18-2013 03:31 PM
  19. Love Divine's Avatar
    Obviously i'm confusing you. My point is this.......his list of downsides were downsides to USING the SD cards, when you wish to store massive amounts of music, photos, etc or very sensitive information. Which is legit, but I don't do either of those things. There may be other little aspects of his list that do apply to me, but i'm not overly concerned with it because the stuff I store on them can be easily replaced if they become corrupt, stolen, or whatever. But it isn't the answer to my question. I don't worry about the downsides he listed, because I would use it to store about 8 GB of music on my phone, and it isn't a problem for me to do so with an SD card, but I don't want that music taking up the internal memory.

    So again, I will revisit my question to try to help you make sense of a very difficult concept.....If you don't want to use it because of those downsides he listed, don't use it. But just because it's there, doesn't mean the phone is less of a phone than another that doesn't have the slot. It's there for people like me who uses it, and you can ignore it if you don't use it. Therefore, the "downsides" are only downsides if someone has a gun to your head forcing you to use it. Otherwise, it doesn't affect you negatively. Please try to understand my point if you want to try and make me look/feel stupid. Clearly we look at it differently, so move on. It doesn't matter. I wont force you to have options and choices when they clearly offend you and are insulting to the core.
    lol

    I'm not insulting or trying to offend you, nor am I upset or insulted. But you appear to be upset. I'm just pointing out what's right there in his post. There are downsides to even including an SD card slot. Jerry's post, which you quoted, points that out. Seriously, just Google it if you want more info.
    bp3dots likes this.
    03-18-2013 03:43 PM
  20. bp3dots's Avatar
    You're right. Companies build for the masses. Except HTC. I would venture to say that more people use SD cards than cloud storage. I don't have any data to back that up, but cloud storage is still in the early adoption phase of it's existence as companies just now are tapping into it. SD cards have been around so long, that they are in more homes. When it comes to technology, the majority of people generally are not early adopters. With an SD card, you can stil use cloud storage. Without an SD card slot, you can ONLY use cloud storage. I went with Android because I want options. I don't want Apple (HTC) telling me what I do or do not need.

    The reason I say HTC doesn't build for the masses, is because they choose a material that feels good and provides false security, but it causes production issues so they can't meet demand. Samsung might go with polycarbonate that feels cheaper, but the product is still solid and they can "build for the masses" by providing devices for the high demand that they ALWAYS have. Your last sentence could easily describe both of us. Let's keep that in mind.
    1 - Without an SD slot you can still use internal memory. Big internal memory is a much better solution to storage needs. Then you stil have cloud available. (Again, it may not work for every single person, but it will work for the vast majority.)

    2 - LOL What? you think HTC designed that phone from the ground up expecting to not be able to keep it in supply? (I really hope I'm reading that wrong, but it's what you seem to be saying)

    Cloud is all well and fine, if you have unlimited data. I love my SD cards.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Cloud is all well and fine as long as the data plan the person using it has is robust enough. You'd be amazed how many people cry for unlimited, and their monthly useage is <2 Gigs. But I think the bigger point hasn't been cloud storage, but including bigger internal memory. I'd much rather see that (and it seems to be the way things are going) as it solves the problem without requiring data/signal participation.
    03-18-2013 04:14 PM
  21. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    1 - Without an SD slot you can still use internal memory. Big internal memory is a much better solution to storage needs. Then you stil have cloud available. (Again, it may not work for every single person, but it will work for the vast majority.)

    2 - LOL What? you think HTC designed that phone from the ground up expecting to not be able to keep it in supply? (I really hope I'm reading that wrong, but it's what you seem to be saying)



    Cloud is all well and fine as long as the data plan the person using it has is robust enough. You'd be amazed how many people cry for unlimited, and their monthly useage is <2 Gigs. But I think the bigger point hasn't been cloud storage, but including bigger internal memory. I'd much rather see that (and it seems to be the way things are going) as it solves the problem without requiring data/signal participation.
    Carriers like VZW don't want bigger storage. They like the cloud and having overages. I've got unlimited and use anywhere from 10-30 GB a month. I still like having 32 GB in the phone + 64 GB on my card. I'm not saying my situation suits everyone else, but no one else's suits mine.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    03-18-2013 05:56 PM
  22. goelz83's Avatar
    I come to these forums for advice. It makes it hard to find out about a phone with all the noise in here. Then, once I find real information, it's hard to determine if it's fact or fiction.

    I'm thinking about replacing my Galaxy Nexus. I come here for information. My phone requirements are pretty simple and minimalistic, really. 1) Must be Verizon. Don't tell me how bad Verizon is or judge me for that choice, it's Verizon and that's not negotiable. 2) Android OS. 3) Replaceable battery. That's not negotiable, with wifi tethering I can burn through a battery in about 3 hours. I don't care much about aesthetics. I can see from this thread that the One won't work for based on one or two of my minimalistic requirements. I think I've narrowed my choice to S4 or Note 2. Gonna have to wait and see.
    The Note II has a killer battery. I think it will be hard for the S4 to beat the battery life of the Note II (and you can keep a backup battery on hand if necessary). If the size isn't a problem and you eat through battery life like you say, my vote would be for the Note II. (And this is coming from the owner of an S3, soon to be an S4. I just don't like the size of the Note II as much as I do the Galaxy S series
    03-18-2013 07:29 PM
  23. bp3dots's Avatar
    Carriers like VZW don't want bigger storage. They like the cloud and having overages. I've got unlimited and use anywhere from 10-30 GB a month. I still like having 32 GB in the phone + 64 GB on my card. I'm not saying my situation suits everyone else, but no one else's suits mine.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    In my exerience dealing with carriers, they actually would prefer you buying more per month than you use. Overages cause complaints and churn. Spending and never using is means more money for them, no complaints, and plenty of bandwith for their users.

    However, for purposes of this thread, my comments on storage refer only to end users and manufacturers.
    03-18-2013 07:52 PM
  24. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    In my exerience dealing with carriers, they actually would prefer you buying more per month than you use. Overages cause complaints and churn. Spending and never using is means more money for them, no complaints, and plenty of bandwith for their users.

    However, for purposes of this thread, my comments on storage refer only to end users and manufacturers.
    It bothers the people who deals with the actual customers making the hourly wage (which they would get if it was unlimited). The complaining doesn't bother the ones that profit the extra money for it.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    03-18-2013 08:39 PM
  25. bp3dots's Avatar
    It bothers the people who deals with the actual customers making the hourly wage (which they would get if it was unlimited). The complaining doesn't bother the ones that profit the extra money for it.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    My statement was based on talking with all customer facing carrier employees. (Line level, large account reps, and retail higher ups)

    But again, this issue is speculation.
    03-18-2013 08:43 PM
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