I Don't appreciate the forced Coronavirus stuff on the phone!

[THEPRFCT10]

So by accident I discovered when selecting Google in settings a push for contact tracing. Not cool. My opinion of course.

 

[Laura Knotek]

That's something from Google, not Samsung.

You should be able to remove it from your interests in the Google app settings.

 

[anon(50597)]

Also, nothing is forced. You have to choose it in settings.

 

[msm0511]

As long as it's not enabled by default I don't really see the problem. If it is, that's a different story.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

That's something from Google, not Samsung.

You should be able to remove it from your interests in the Google app settings.

Hmmmm I'd like to know how!

 

[Mooncatt]

Hmmmm I'd like to know how!

Looking at the setting on my phone, it is turned off by default and it says you must open an available app (which you'd have to manually download) to enable it.

A few things of note:

This is a combined Google and Apple project, so all of their phones still getting updates to the OS are eventually getting this ability.

You don't have to worry about privacy concerns. If you want, I can provide some in depth videos explaining how it works.

If you do decide to make use of it, don't expect it to be effective. Again, I can provide more in depth videos on this if you'd like. From a technological standpoint, it's rather ingenious how this works without privacy invasion, but the fatal flaw is basically it requires more adoption than can be reasonably expected, resulting in too many false positives and negatives.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Looking at the setting on my phone, it is turned off by default and it says you must open an available app (which you'd have to manually download) to enable it.

A few things of note:

This is a combined Google and Apple project, so all of their phones still getting updates to the OS are eventually getting this ability.

You don't have to worry about privacy concerns. If you want, I can provide some in depth videos explaining how it works.

If you do decide to make use of it, don't expect it to be effective. Again, I can provide more in depth videos on this if you'd like. From a technological standpoint, it's rather ingenious how this works without privacy invasion, but the fatal flaw is basically it requires more adoption than can be reasonably expected, resulting in too many false positives and negatives.View attachment 321164

Ah ok thanks. That's good to know I appreciate you keeping this civil.

 

[caseym54]

Re: Don't appreciate the forced Coronavirus stuff on the phone

Considering that some places in the world are carding everyone who enters a store, restaurant, church, etc, "to do contact tracing" with little control over who gets to see the records, this is a better idea. I'd rather trust Google than the local po-lice.

The idea is that, if someone comes down with the virus, Google can THEN correlate that person's path with everyone else and quietly notify those they've come into contact with WITHOUT notifying the authorities. A huge computing problem, but Google and Apple are more likely to do it without tomfoolery ("who went to the pot dealer?") and keep the data secure from the cops. As for them HAVING the data, well they mostly do already.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Re: Don't appreciate the forced Coronavirus stuff on the phone

Considering that some places in the world are carding everyone who enters a store, restaurant, church, etc, "to do contact tracing" with little control over who gets to see the records, this is a better idea. I'd rather trust Google than the local po-lice.

The idea is that, if someone comes down with the virus, Google can THEN correlate that person's path with everyone else and quietly notify those they've come into contact with WITHOUT notifying the authorities. A huge computing problem, but Google and Apple are more likely to do it without tomfoolery ("who went to the pot dealer?") and keep the data secure from the cops. As for them HAVING the data, well they mostly do already.

I hear you but I think many will agree that it's treading a very thin line of an invasion of privacy and possibly borderline violating HIPAA or ADA issues since this is regarding health and medical but what do I know lol. Anyway regardless I love my phone!

 

[Mooncatt]

Re: Don't appreciate the forced Coronavirus stuff on the phone

I hear you but I think many will agree that it's treading a very thin line of an invasion of privacy and possibly borderline violating HIPAA or ADA issues since this is regarding health and medical but what do I know lol. Anyway regardless I love my phone!

Not really. For one, I don't think they are bound by HIPAA regulations since they are not licenced medical professionals. Now a state agency that makes an app to take advantage of this ability may be bound, which is why you should only get such an app through official channels. Second, this is an opt-in program. By opting in, you are saying you understand that information will be shared and that you consent to it. Similar to the HIPAA issue, the core API's on our phones don't have personally identifiable information tracking, but a given app could. I think Utah's app has GPS tracking added on top of the core API, which can be beneficial for tracking hot spots and then increasing public awareness through media announcements. This helps offset the problem of lack of utilization by tracking your location, but again, is an opt-in app that you knowingly agree to take part in.

Here's the video explaining the core API and how it works without tracking or personally identifiable info. Fast forward to 1:19:19 to get to the topic of the tracking.

https://youtu.be/Z3DZ3St3QRw

And for the record, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't use them. I'm only pointing out how things work. Feel free to make your own decisions on whether or not to use them. Personally I don't, for the fatal flaw I mentioned above. You can find that explained more in these videos.

https://youtu.be/3QkVQhlEfks @10:20

And

https://youtu.be/WUeIRb6CxVc @1:37:36

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Re: Don't appreciate the forced Coronavirus stuff on the phone

Not really. For one, I don't think they are bound by HIPAA regulations since they are not licenced medical professionals. Now a state agency that makes an app to take advantage of this ability may be bound, which is why you should only get such an app through official channels. Second, this is an opt-in program. By opting in, you are saying you understand that information will be shared and that you consent to it. Similar to the HIPAA issue, the core API's on our phones don't have personally identifiable information tracking, but a given app could. I think Utah's app has GPS tracking added on top of the core API, which can be beneficial for tracking hot spots and then increasing public awareness through media announcements. This helps offset the problem of lack of utilization by tracking your location, but again, is an opt-in app that you knowingly agree to take part in.

Here's the video explaining the core API and how it works without tracking or personally identifiable info. Fast forward to 1:19:19 to get to the topic of the tracking.

https://youtu.be/Z3DZ3St3QRw

And for the record, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't use them. I'm only pointing out how things work. Feel free to make your own decisions on whether or not to use them. Personally I don't, for the fatal flaw I mentioned above. You can find that explained more in these videos.

https://youtu.be/3QkVQhlEfks @10:20

And

https://youtu.be/WUeIRb6CxVc @1:37:36

Very informative post thank you and thank you for keeping it civil

 

[kikbxr1969]

Actually, ANYONE who has or keeps records of health is bound by HIPAA. Think of your employer, who has access to your health insurance. They are not allowed to share anything they know about your health as a result. I would add that because Google and Apple are doing this as an official process WITHOUT telling us that they added it to our phones, then they have already violated a key provision. (Which is notifying us that it is there and what are options are or are not with regards to releasing that information). If we have to find out from 3rd parties that this was already installed, they have already violated our trust.

 

[Mooncatt]

Actually, ANYONE who has or keeps records of health is bound by HIPAA. Think of your employer, who has access to your health insurance. They are not allowed to share anything they know about your health as a result. I would add that because Google and Apple are doing this as an official process WITHOUT telling us that they added it to our phones, then they have already violated a key provision. (Which is notifying us that it is there and what are options are or are not with regards to releasing that information). If we have to find out from 3rd parties that this was already installed, they have already violated our trust.

Google and Apple are not keeping track of anything by default. Again, this is an opt-in system. Having the capability with the API on your phone doing absolutely nothing is of no privacy concern. It will not do anything unless you specifically take steps to make use of it. Even then, if you watch the first video I posted above that explains this, it still may not track personally identifiable info, so not a privacy concern. The core API would be like exchanging sealed envelopes with everyone you encounter that has an alert beacon inside. At some point, that alert may sound, but you'll have no idea who you got that specific envelope from, when you got it, or where you got it. The person that handed it to you wouldn't know who you are nor be able to contact you directly.

If you don't install an associated app, then it's doing nothing more than taking up storage space as junk code at worst.

 

[kikbxr1969]

Google and Apple are not keeping track of anything by default. Again, this is an opt-in system. Having the capability with the API on your phone doing absolutely nothing is of no privacy concern. It will not do anything unless you specifically take steps to make use of it. Even then, if you watch the first video I posted above that explains this, it still may not track personally identifiable info, so not a privacy concern. The core API would be like exchanging sealed envelopes with everyone you encounter that has an alert beacon inside. At some point, that alert may sound, but you'll have no idea who you got that specific envelope from, when you got it, or where you got it. The person that handed it to you wouldn't know who you are nor be able to contact you directly.

If you don't install an associated app, then it's doing nothing more than taking up storage space as junk code at worst.

The problem is, the API allows the handling of PII mixed with health data, and they installed it silently. The handling of that data in effect makes them a third party. Yes, it's dormant (for now). But it erodes what little trust people have in them when they do these things silently. All they needed to do was notify users that it had been installed and what the implications could be if they combine it with an app.

 

[Mooncatt]

The problem is, the API allows the handling of PII mixed with health data, and they installed it silently. The handling of that data in effect makes them a third party. Yes, it's dormant (for now). But it erodes what little trust people have in them when they do these things silently. All they needed to do was notify users that it had been installed and what the implications could be if they combine it with an app.

I'll grant you that it was a bit shady to install, but it wasn't an unknown project and this sort of thing happens all the time with Google and Apple. They went through hoops to keep data anonymous, and no one should have any concern about their privacy from that alone. If you don't install the apps, you'll have zero to worry about.

If something changes in the future that makes it more worrisome, then sure, we can address those changes at that time. As of right now, there's no way they would've designed this in a way that violates HIPAA and made it past federal investigators.

 

[kikbxr1969]

I'll grant you that it was a bit shady to install, but it wasn't an unknown project and this sort of thing happens all the time with Google and Apple. They went through hoops to keep data anonymous, and no one should have any concern about their privacy from that alone. If you don't install the apps, you'll have zero to worry about.

If something changes in the future that makes it more worrisome, then sure, we can address those changes at that time. As of right now, there's no way they would've designed this in a way that violates HIPAA and made it past federal investigators.

You mean something like this? If you have to download an app to opt in, how is it that someone can opt in without downloading an app? The OS notifies you if you have been in contact even if you don't have an app. But you have to have an app to opt in. So.... I am confused.

https://www.theverge.com/interface/...-app-android-ios-pros-cons-quarantine-testing

 

[Mooncatt]

You mean something like this? If you have to download an app to opt in, how is it that someone can opt in without downloading an app? The OS notifies you if you have been in contact even if you don't have an app. But you have to have an app to opt in. So.... I am confused.

https://www.theverge.com/interface/...-app-android-ios-pros-cons-quarantine-testing
View attachment 321207

The answer to your question is in the first sentence of the paragraph you screenshot. Once phase 2 hits, still no concern about privacy.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Actually, ANYONE who has or keeps records of health is bound by HIPAA. Think of your employer, who has access to your health insurance. They are not allowed to share anything they know about your health as a result. I would add that because Google and Apple are doing this as an official process WITHOUT telling us that they added it to our phones, then they have already violated a key provision. (Which is notifying us that it is there and what are options are or are not with regards to releasing that information). If we have to find out from 3rd parties that this was already installed, they have already violated our trust.

That's kind of what I was hinting at - Thank you.

 

[ShaggyKids]

I totally agree. The fact that they didn't tell anyone makes it more than suspicious at the very least. Since they were so sneaky about it, it makes me wonder what they installed already might be tracking of some sort. If it's so legit, why the secrecy?

 

[Mooncatt]

I totally agree. The fact that they didn't tell anyone makes it more than suspicious at the very least. Since they were so sneaky about it, it makes me wonder what they installed already might be tracking of some sort. If it's so legit, why the secrecy?

I don't think it was actively hidden. After all, it was in the tech spheres already, and here's Apple's own announcement of it back in April.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020...-on-covid-19-contact-tracing-technology/#mn_p

I think it's more a case that this wasn't picked up by the mainstream media.