16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

[minnemike]

Imagine what we could have had if Google and LG put full LTE support in the Nexus 4 for T-Mobile. Still, I understand they had to take it away because LTE on the Nexus 4 didn't have FCC approval. (Anyway, resourceful users can always change the software on their phones to get LTE back, so it's not a complete loss.)

I believe Sprint still has unlimited data options. Sprint is also known for having the best integration with Google Voice, and it previously had the Galaxy Nexus with 32 GB of storage. Maybe Google should put out a 32 GB Nexus 4 with Sprint LTE. I'm sure a lot of Sprint fans would be happy, and this move would really stick it to Verizon.

I think you will see that phone, it just won't be called a Nexus IMO. Again, I'm just referring to a brand identity and philosophy they are trying to cultivate. I could be wrong, but it's just how I see it at present, trying to make sense of it. Vanilla Android looks to be a widely available product feature on many platforms and brands very shortly here, to satisfy all. The N4 is already in the rear view window and there will be countless other options available even before the next one I have to imagine.

 

[Scott7217]

Depends on the specific apps, as well as the number of apps.

So, how much cache is reasonable? You can give me a ballpark estimate, if that helps.

Except that Google isn't the only company that provides cloud services, and not all of Google's cloud service apps come bundled with the OS. If all you needed were the bundled apps, yes, 4GB would probably be enough.

As you can see, I am not against the cloud. Maybe all I want is stuff from Google. I could get by on 4 GB if I were relying solely on the cloud. However, I also believe in choice because everyone uses their phone differently. Maybe someone else can't get by on 4 GB alone. So perhaps 8 GB, 16 GB, and 32 GB would be reasonable options. Those capacities have been on Nexus phones before.

Because the Nexus 4 is SIM unlocked, I can get a prepaid local data and phone plan anywhere in the world without having to pay roaming charges to my US carrier. When that's the case, the argument for the necessity of downloading maps and language packs locally become weaker. But even if that weren't the case, I would think 16 GB would be enough.

However, you can't guarantee network coverage, even if you have a local SIM. There may not be enough cell towers in the area. The existing towers may be congested during peak times. I may walk into a building with thick walls that block the cell signal. What if I take the subway, and there's no signal there? What if I decide to go hiking in the wilderness? I don't think these are unusual circumstances.

16 GB may or may not be enough, depending on what you download. Again, if you can get by with less, that's fine. It's not an issue for you, but it may be an issue for others.

So... you are not blaming Google for the decisions carriers make, but also saying that Google should consider carrier data pricing in deciding how much storage to provide? I'm confused. My take on this is that carrier decisions aren't Google's fault, but we live in the real world were one affects the other.

Google's reach only goes so far. Maybe Google could get an exclusive deal where Nexus users can get unlimited data, but I realize the decision resides with the carriers, not Google. In such a case, Google can concentrate on things it can control. I believe that it's more likely for Google to release a 32 GB Nexus than for it to ask all the carriers to offer unlimited data plans.

The subsidy IS a form of the market sorting things out. One player in the market (Google) is using its resources to push the market (or a segment of the market) in a way that it prefers. But yes, the GE phones are now out, and I would think would fit most people's needs. Although, is either the S4 or One GE available with internal storage capacity of greater than 16 GB?

It's certainly Google's prerogative to offer a subsidy or not. Like I said before, I don't think everyone outside the US can get a subsidized Nexus 4. In the US, though, Google is trying to influence the market. That's fine. Offer the 32 GB Nexus at a much higher price. This provides an incentive for people to skip that model, but if people are willing to pay it anyway, then so be it.

As far as I know, the Samsung Galaxy S4 comes with 16 GB internal storage. We don't know at this time if Samsung will also include the update that allows users to move apps to the micro SD card. (Owners of the TouchWiz variant can do this if they install the latest software update.) If Samsung includes the update, then users potentially have access to up to an additional 64 GB (80 GB total) if you include the micro SD card. The HTC One has 32 GB of storage. So we'll have options once the phones go on sale.

And so can you on a Nexus phone. Use an OTG USB device. It's an attachment, not part of the main product design, as as your roof rack.

I think someone on this forum post asked about OTG USB, and someone said that it only works for the Nexus 7, not the Nexus 4. Of course, if you have it working on your Nexus 4, we all would be interested to hear the details.

 

[Scott7217]

I think you will see that phone, it just won't be called a Nexus IMO. Again, I'm just referring to a brand identity and philosophy they are trying to cultivate. I could be wrong, but it's just how I see it at present, trying to make sense of it. Vanilla Android looks to be a widely available product feature on many platforms and brands very shortly here, to satisfy all. The N4 is already in the rear view window and there will be countless other options available even before the next one I have to imagine.

I think that's the power of choice. You give people options and let them decide. If the phone doesn't say Nexus on the back, I'm okay with that. As long as it has stock Android and it gets timely updates, I'll be happy.

 

[Scott7217]

Well that is just your biased opinion! I think my posts are very informative to prospective N4 buyers in knowing what the intent of Google is with their design and to warn them if they are heavy on local storage. In fact, I probably have saved countless people from your fate of buying one and then spend countless hours complaining.

In the past, you would have ended up pushing people away from stock Android and towards TouchWiz, Sense, or something else. That would mean fewer votes for stock Android. However, very soon we'll have the option for other stock Android devices. Then you can just point people in the right direction, and everyone will be happy.

 

[yfan]

So, how much cache is reasonable? You can give me a ballpark estimate, if that helps.

I don't have one. For me, Play Music and Currents alone use somewhere between 500 MB and 1 GB given the time of day. My feeling is that 8 GB is the minimum, and for me it is also enough.

However, you can't guarantee network coverage, even if you have a local SIM. There may not be enough cell towers in the area. The existing towers may be congested during peak times. I may walk into a building with thick walls that block the cell signal. What if I take the subway, and there's no signal there? What if I decide to go hiking in the wilderness? I don't think these are unusual circumstances.

I hike a lot, and usually the only time I use my phone on a hike is to take photos. Rarely if I am alone, to listen to my podcasts or music (pinned or cached mostly). When you go hiking in the woods, I recommend enjoying the beauty of the woods instead of watching Avatar on your phone. In the Subway? It's not like your Nexus 4 has no storage - you can put some stuff on it that you want to most enjoy. So yes, those are unusual circumstances. What if you decide to film a documentary on the forest on the spot and record 720 p video for 2 and a half hours? What if your phone's battery dies? What if it rains in the woods and your phone isn't water resistant? What if this? What if that? You can come up with a million scenarios under which cloud/Nexus 4 (at least the 8 gb model) is not optimal. The Nexus 4 isn't made for those situations. It isn't meant to meet every imaginable condition under which you may not have a data connection, or designed for the user who must have all his data, all the time, regardless of network status. And the Nexus line won't be that silver bullet, not in the foreseeable future.

I think someone on this forum post asked about OTG USB, and someone said that it only works for the Nexus 7, not the Nexus 4. Of course, if you have it working on your Nexus 4, we all would be interested to hear the details.

You're right. But there are wifi alternatives, for example.

 

[Scott7217]

I don't have one. For me, Play Music and Currents alone use somewhere between 500 MB and 1 GB given the time of day. My feeling is that 8 GB is the minimum, and for me it is also enough.

It's good that you're happy with 8 GB. As I said, if I were to rely only on the cloud, I could get by with 4 GB in theory. Still, I support your choice for the 8 GB model. If you felt you needed 16 or 32 GB, I would support you as well. The only difference is that right now the Play Store only sells an 8 GB and a 16 GB Nexus 4, not a 32 GB Nexus 4.

By the way, I made comments about cell towers being inadequate. I also talked about building walls blocking the signal. Both of those interfere with the cloud, making the Nexus 4 less useful. Do you have an opinion on those topics? (You do talk about my hiking example, which I will discuss next.)

I hike a lot, and usually the only time I use my phone on a hike is to take photos. Rarely if I am alone, to listen to my podcasts or music (pinned or cached mostly). When you go hiking in the woods, I recommend enjoying the beauty of the woods instead of watching Avatar on your phone.

Why not both? Maybe you'll get tired after your hike, and you just want to watch something to relax. You're free to do what you want with you phone. You paid for it, afterall.

In the Subway? It's not like your Nexus 4 has no storage - you can put some stuff on it that you want to most enjoy.

Exactly, which is why I am thankful that I don't have to rely on the cloud in that situation. I use my Nexus 4 like another person uses a 32 GB Nexus 7 when they're outside of wifi range. The only difference is that I am given the opportunity to only work with either 8 GB or 16 GB, not 32 GB. Perhaps if you think of it that way, you'll have a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

So yes, those are unusual circumstances. What if you decide to film a documentary on the forest on the spot and record 720 p video for 2 and a half hours?

Vic Gundotra from Google said that they're working on "insanely great cameras" for the Nexus line, so maybe we'll have something for people who want to make nature films.

What if your phone's battery dies?

Motorola has implemented impressive battery technology for their MAXX series of smartphones. Google owns Motorola, so perhaps some of that tech can filter down to the Nexus.

What if it rains in the woods and your phone isn't water resistant?

I've seen impressive improvements in water resistance. Liquipel was shown off at CES 2013. The Google Edition Sony Xperia Z is also a water-resistant phone. Maybe Google can cross-license these methods to improve the Nexus.

What if this? What if that? You can come up with a million scenarios under which cloud/Nexus 4 (at least the 8 gb model) is not optimal.

I don't know if I can come up with 1 million, but I am always looking for areas of improvement in the Nexus line. That's because I like it a lot, and I hope it grows in the future. It's the Swiss Army knife of tech.

The Nexus 4 isn't made for those situations. It isn't meant to meet every imaginable condition under which you may not have a data connection, or designed for the user who must have all his data, all the time, regardless of network status. And the Nexus line won't be that silver bullet, not in the foreseeable future.

Perhaps I get a lot of use with my Nexus. Does it do everything? No, but it does quite a lot. Maybe you don't use your Nexus as much as I do, so that's why it's hard for you to understand my situation. I'm asking for 32 GB, not 1 million GB. That's a finite quantity that has appeared on a Nexus phone before. Also, I'm willing to pay for it, without any subsidy. What's the harm in that?

You're right. But there are wifi alternatives, for example.

The Kingston Wi-Drive is an excellent choice. I recommended it myself a few pages back in this forum post. In this regard, we think alike.

 

[yfan]

By the way, I made comments about cell towers being inadequate. I also talked about building walls blocking the signal. Both of those interfere with the cloud, making the Nexus 4 less useful. Do you have an opinion on those topics? (You do talk about my hiking example, which I will discuss next.)

Yes, and I talked about it. It is that the Nexus 4 isn't made for every situation, and I find it to be buyers' remorse to be complaining about situations you knew at the time of purchase it wasn't appropriate for.

Why not both? Maybe you'll get tired after your hike, and you just want to watch something to relax. You're free to do what you want with you phone. You paid for it, afterall.

Clearly, you did not. If you paid for 32 or 64 gigs of storage so you can have a few movies on your phone all the time, you wouldn't have a Nexus 4. So no, you didn't pay to hold all those movies on your phone.

Vic Gundotra from Google said that they're working on "insanely great cameras" for the Nexus line, so maybe we'll have something for people who want to make nature films.

We also currently do. But what isn't going to happen is for a Nexus to be able to hold that documentary, and a few high def movies, and your entire music library locally.

The point of it all is that you want everything in one phone, and the Nexus 4 is not that phone, will not be that phone, and was never meant to be that phone. The rhetorical questions were meant to demonstrate that point. Of course there are phones that are water resistant, and have fantastic cameras, and have a ton of storage. That's just not a Nexus, and the Nexus is not going to everything to all people.This discussion is about the Nexus 4. You seem to be demanding that the Nexus be all things to all people, and account for all contingencies. It is not, and it will not.

 

[yfan]

Perhaps I get a lot of use with my Nexus. Does it do everything? No, but it does quite a lot. Maybe you don't use your Nexus as much as I do, so that's why it's hard for you to understand my situation. I'm asking for 32 GB, not 1 million GB. That's a finite quantity that has appeared on a Nexus phone before. Also, I'm willing to pay for it, without any subsidy. What's the harm in that?

Then go ahead and do it. There are a ton of 32 GB phones you can buy outright, which will cost you around $700 - $750. If you are willing to pay that price, go ahead and buy such a phone. It just won't be a Nexus. You seem to think that you and I are having a debate about how much storage phones should have and what options they should offer. We are not. This thread is about the Nexus 4 and the Nexus 4 only. This is about whether the *Nexus* line - not any other phone, stock or otherwise - needs to accommodate demands for greater storage. It does not.

Btw, which Nexus phone, sold by Google directly at a cut rate (rather than carrier branded) previously provided a 32 GB or 64 GB internal storage option?

 

[JeffDenver]

The problem is that you're assuming that most Android buyers are dumb idiots who go out buying things before they know what the "limitations" of a given device are.

Not everyone is a phone geek. A lot of people are not going to understand the limitations if you just throw specs at them.

That's not true. In fact, smartphone users are far more savvy, having to juggle data consumption (evidenced by how good they are at turning on wifi whenever possible), storage and everything that comes with owning a smartphone. Nobody who's buying a Nexus 4 is unaware of how much storage it comes with.

Nobody LIKES the limited storage. Some people are simply willing to put up with it without complaint. Lack of SD is an obvious flaw. No one wants to use the stupid cloud as their primary storage. Taking options away from me gives me no advantage...it only gives me limitations. SD does not stop me from using the cloud.

Google also had official support for Adobe Flash in previous Nexus devices and versions of Android.

They still do. I am on JB 4.2.2 and using Flash. It installs just fine. ADOBE was the one who stopped supporting it, not Google. Android still supports flash just fine and probably will indefinitely.

And yeah, it's entirely possible Adobe could reverse that decision as well.

 

[pvman]

Really? It's been five months since the Nexus 4 came out and people are still whining that they can't carry every flipping piece of digital media with them? Yeesh.

1. Bandwidth caps? Not a problem if you use wi-fi. I use about 1.2GB of OTA data and 3-5GB of wi-fi data, mostly because the crap Spotify app keeps losing downloaded files and clearing the cache without taking care wipes them out, too.

B. Not enough space? I have a 16GB N4 and with 165 apps/LWPs installed, about 100 3MP photos, and 40 albums/530 tracks of high quality Spotify downloads and I have almost 5GB still free. How much media do you want to have with you? You know where I have my other 10,000+ music files? My half-filled 80GB iPod Classic.

3. You want a "device meant for media content"? Then go get one. Samsung has SD slots in all their models AFAIK. As for non-expandable phones, the 32GB iPhone 5 off-contract is $749; the unlocked 32GB HTC One is $575.

Maybe Google will announce a 32GB model along with LTE at I/O and all your problems will be solved, though I'll doubt it. Then it will be, "Why not 64GB?"

I disagree. I just moved to the N4 from a Treo 680. I had a 32 GB, Class 6 SCHC card in the Treo. It held all my music, podcasts, photos, books, documents, apps and had plenty room to spare (about 40%). All in all, that was a $200 investment 5 years ago.

Now, the N4 is much better hardware!! I can see paying more for the updated processors, radios (GSM, HSPD, WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS, etc.), displays, etc. But memory is fairly cheap! Memory controllers and SD slots are failry cheap also. I don't have buyer's remorse yet, but I feel like I'm going to be banging up against that 16 GB wall pretty soon.

 

[Aquila]

Lack of SD is an obvious flaw

False.

No one wants to use the stupid cloud as their primary storage.

False.

Taking options away from me gives me no advantage...it only gives me limitations.

True.

SD does not stop me from using the cloud.

True.

Poor assumptions lead to poor conclusions. We need to be able to look at normal as normal, not "my usage" as normal.

Nexus is not going to everything to all people.This discussion is about the Nexus 4. You seem to be demanding that the Nexus be all things to all people, and account for all contingencies. It is not, and it will not.

This is the most accurate paradigm to look at the "limitations" of the Nexus through.

It's really simple, there are pros and cons of every device. (using generally perceived pros and cons, my list is pretty different)

Nexus:
Pro - Best software with many years of updates and support, low subsidized price, elegant design
Con - No LTE, max of 16GB storage, battery life (not great for consumers trying to use it as a powerhouse, is perfectly great for a development reference device)

HTC One:
Pro - Features (like Zoes, blinkfeed, etc), favorably reviewed design and build materials, beautiful 1080p screen.
Con - Difficult to repair, expensive, power button placement (lots of complaints on this) and "the black bar" (which is actually poor development by third party developers as a result of Samsung's actions, but it still sucks on the One)

Samsung GS4:
Pro - 5" 1080p screen, camera, features (some people actually like them), expandable or replacable everything, easier to repair
Con - Buttons (physical home button, menu button, button configuration), TouchWiz look and feel, Bloat.

Now the interesting thing - some of the things on the Con lines for each are things that some people think of as Pros, and vice-versa. Does that make them wrong or just abnormal?

 

[minnemike]

Now the interesting thing - some of the things on the Con lines for each are things that some people think of as Pros, and vice-versa. Does that make them wrong or just abnormal?

Good post!

I think LTE is something that comes with mixed issues... a big one being unlimited unthrottled data. You can't get that with LTE (apart from future Tmo deployment). Although, LTE is certainly obtainable in some regard with tinkering.

 

[fernandezhjr]

I disagree. I just moved to the N4 from a Treo 680. I had a 32 GB, Class 6 SCHC card in the Treo. It held all my music, podcasts, photos, books, documents, apps and had plenty room to spare (about 40%). All in all, that was a $200 investment 5 years ago.

Now, the N4 is much better hardware!! I can see paying more for the updated processors, radios (GSM, HSPD, WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS, etc.), displays, etc. But memory is fairly cheap! Memory controllers and SD slots are failry cheap also. I don't have buyer's remorse yet, but I feel like I'm going to be banging up against that 16 GB wall pretty soon.

You are good example of someone whom should be a convert. Of all the stuff you list, I'm not a fan of streaming from the cloud- music & podcasts, but all the storage type stuff would suffice on the cloud- documents, pics, & books. You can get a 50gb account from Box right now!!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[yfan]

Not everyone is a phone geek. A lot of people are not going to understand the limitations if you just throw specs at them.

Please. One does not need to be a geek to know that the "Nexus 4 16 GB" has 16 GB of on board storage.

Nobody LIKES the limited storage. Some people are simply willing to put up with it without complaint. Lack of SD is an obvious flaw. No one wants to use the stupid cloud as their primary storage.

Hi, I'm "no one," it's a pleasure to meet you. Word of advice: stop assuming that you speak for everyone, and that if you don't like something, that therefore means that no one else likes it either. I like smaller storage, because (a) I don't need it, and (b) buying the 8 gig model meant an extra $50 in my pocket (or even if I had bought the 16 GB model, it would still mean more money in my pocket compared to similarly spec-ed phones). I also already use the cloud as my primary storage - music, documents, photos, everything. You need not agree with me, but I'd appreciate it if you would stop referring to me as "nobody."

Taking options away from me gives me no advantage...it only gives me limitations. SD does not stop me from using the cloud.

Nobody took your options away. You have always had options of phones that offered SD card storage as well as greater on-board storage. It's just that those options aren't Nexus phones that cost $350 brand new, off contract. You have options; you just don't want to use them - or are making a decision to pick this option because for all the complaining, the option of the Nexus is more valuable to you than others. But you do now and always have had options.

They still do. I am on JB 4.2.2 and using Flash. It installs just fine. ADOBE was the one who stopped supporting it, not Google.

Really? Google is supporting flash on mobile? That's great news. Please tell me how I can get flash to work on Google Chrome mobile. Google made the decision to remove flash support from the mobile version of Chrome, not Adobe.

 

[JeffDenver]

Please. One does not need to be a geek to know that the "Nexus 4 16 GB" has 16 GB of on board storage.

You say that as if everyone know what 16 gigs of storage means. You cannot possibly be that out of touch.

Phone nerds know what 16 gigs means. The average buyer does not.

Hi, I'm "no one," it's a pleasure to meet you. Word of advice: stop assuming that you speak for everyone

Maybe you should take your own advice. Lead by example, heh heh.

I like smaller storage, because (a) I don't need it

So if you do not need it, then not having it available is somehow a good thing? What if your needs change in the future? What exactly are you losing by having more than you need?

I also already use the cloud as my primary storage

So what? Again, how does having more local storage change that? You could have both.

Nobody took your options away.

Everything you want, Google could still have given you if they included SD. That does not hold true for me.

You have always had options of phones that offered SD card storage as well as greater on-board storage.

...that were Nexus devices? That were vanilla android? Um...no. You are incorrect.

You have options

None that include both Vanilla Android and SD.

You seem to be under the impression that as long as a phone meets your personal needs, it is good enough for everyone. And that they are wrong to say otherwise.

Really? Google is supporting flash on mobile?

It sure is. I am looking at a flash app on Firefox right now on my Nexus 4.

Google made the decision to remove flash support from the mobile version of Chrome, not Adobe.

You do understand the difference between Android and chrome, right? If not I would be happy to explain it.

(Hint...Chrome is just an app on the Android platform)

 

[Captainbob767]

What a moronic thread, and it goes on and on.. Unreal

 

[fernandezhjr]

What a moronic thread, and it goes on and on.. Unreal

Yup, all because someone bought the wrong phone.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Gamer_Radar]

I thought the same.. But mine was more then enough. With WiFi my pictures auto upload! Then my music certain playlists that I liked were on my phone. The rest were avail to download but that's it..

Movies I had on my n7 so that took 0on my device ..

Tbh if you actually look at how much space you REALLY USE its nothing.

Seriously. How much music do you actually listen to per week or even month? How many pictures do even go back to after 2 weeks? I never go back. So idk the deal.

Only thing is apps and some music but like I said.

Sent from my HTC One X using AC Forums mobile app

 

[Farish]

I realize the best solution for some of you is to buy a 4x4TB raid nas server, attach it to a wifi bridge. Put it in the truck of your car and use a couple 1500 VA ups battery to maintain power while you are out so you have it tether to phone for all data needs. That way wherever you go, you always have your data.

 

[Scott7217]

Yes, and I talked about it. It is that the Nexus 4 isn't made for every situation, and I find it to be buyers' remorse to be complaining about situations you knew at the time of purchase it wasn't appropriate for.

So, have you always had perfect cell tower coverage or wifi everywhere you go?

As for buyer's remorse, that would be true if I wanted a refund or if I wanted to sell my phone... but I don't. I'll keep my Nexus 4 as is because right now it's the best stock Android experience you can get on a phone.

Clearly, you did not. If you paid for 32 or 64 gigs of storage so you can have a few movies on your phone all the time, you wouldn't have a Nexus 4. So no, you didn't pay to hold all those movies on your phone.

I would have bought a 32 GB Nexus 4 if one were available.

We also currently do. But what isn't going to happen is for a Nexus to be able to hold that documentary, and a few high def movies, and your entire music library locally.

You would need more local storage. I would also remind you that you asked about filming a documentary using the Nexus 4, not me.

The point of it all is that you want everything in one phone, and the Nexus 4 is not that phone, will not be that phone, and was never meant to be that phone. The rhetorical questions were meant to demonstrate that point.

I simply want a 32 GB Nexus 4. I'm not sure how you went from that to "everything" in one phone.

Of course there are phones that are water resistant, and have fantastic cameras, and have a ton of storage. That's just not a Nexus, and the Nexus is not going to everything to all people.This discussion is about the Nexus 4. You seem to be demanding that the Nexus be all things to all people, and account for all contingencies. It is not, and it will not.

Phones improve over time. The Nexus 5 will presumably be better than the Nexus 4, both in hardware and software. I voted for the Nexus 4 with my wallet because I believe in stock Android.