Apple: Get A Life!!!

[crackberrytraitor]

There are no aggregate stats, but all you need to do is look at download stats for root-only apps and roms to understand. By far the majority of android users don't know or care what rooting is. Based on the numbers, its not even above 5%.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Again, that's a poor representation of how many people root their phones. Even people with rooted phones have mostly have apps that don't require root access. Again, you say based on the numbers. Please show me the link to said numbers, pretty sure you just made up 5%

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[JHBThree]

Again, that's a poor representation of how many people root their phones. Even people with rooted phones have mostly have apps that don't require root access. Again, you say based on the numbers. Please show me the link to said numbers, pretty sure you just made up 5%

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Go look at the download stats and compare it against the number of Android devices. The people that mod their devices are a tiny minority of the total number of users. I'm not sure why you continue to deny it; its a common sense fact that everyone here except you seems to already know.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[JHBThree]

We can agree to disagree.

If there's one thing in this world I understand, however, it is economics. You are aggregating prior individual preferences (or potential evidence thereof) and using that to ascribe prospective group behavior without understanding why the prior behavior existed in the first place. While it may seem clear and correct to you, you can't do that b/c ==>

• Preferences shift;
• Preferences are individual;
• Humans are inherently simple creatures and make choices for a variety of reasons and integrating a variety of factors;
• You have no actual proof other than sales figures and estimates on what people choose to prefer, but not necessarily why people chose it (and preferences = why). Ascribing hacking v. non-hacking as a definitive factor (in either regard) undermines individuality and choice;
• You removing an actual preference (hacking) does nothing other than to skew the choice and the results thereof

By saying Apple caters to a market whose preferences align with a majority of users, and as such, is clearly a superior preference point than Android, defeats the purpose of preference entirely. Just because X quantity of Y product is moved does not mean that Y is necessarily better than Z; it merely means that more preferences lean in that direction, and that a smart company would maximize that preference.

Further, it has been implied (actually stated in your post) that because your preference is A (hacking) yet the other choice B (nonhacking) is dominant, choice A is meaningless and B choice products are largely qualitatively better. As such, we shouldn't choose A because the reasons for doing so don't matter (your bit about reasons becoming less clear), or should not matter, because they are not in the majority. This is just incorrect. It doesn't work that way; just b/c users like Chevrolet over Ford does not mean that there are no reasons to choose Ford over Chevrolet or that there's a market mandate to purchase Chevrolet. It follows that they choose Chevrolet because that's what their preference is; but, fortunately for humanity, that does not mean we "should" choose it.

And lastly, you can't cherry pick an individual's preferences just to prove a somewhat hollow point. You're doing so, and by saying that you shouldn't include those who hack, then you undermine basic, individual economics and how we as humans make (and have made) rational choices.

P.S. My apologies--was up late seeing Prometheus and have yet to have the requisite 4 cups of coffees.

For TL;DR ==> you can't claim an individual prefers X over Y when you start cherry-picking what they are "allowed" to prefer.

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You misunderstand again. My comments were not limited to those that mod iOS, they also included android.

Basically, what I'm saying (which I said quite clearly more than a dozen posts ago) is that the number of users on both platforms that modify their phones is small enough to be an irrelevant factor when comparing the two platforms. With hack-ability removed, the distance between the two platforms is negligible.

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[dmmarck]

You misunderstand again. My comments were not limited to those that mod iOS, they also included android.

Basically, what I'm saying (which I said quite clearly more than a dozen posts ago) is that the number of users on both platforms that modify their phones is small enough to be an irrelevant factor when comparing the two platforms. With hack-ability removed, the distance between the two platforms is negligible.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

First highlight - where did I say Android? Where did I say iOS? I said it in this context:

By saying Apple caters to a market whose preferences align with a majority of users, and as such, is clearly a superior preference point than Android, defeats the purpose of preference entirely

However, you can easily flip them and still have the same applicable economic rules and analysis--hence the use of X, Y, and Z. Don't get hung up on what you think I'm understanding. I understand quite well, thank you, I just don't believe it's accurate. It's a valid opinion, as any are, but one I disagree with strongly.

Second highlight - there's a difference between clear points, writing, and posting and clear logic; going from A to C by removing B is not clear logic in my book. But again, we can agree to disagree.

Third highlight - And yet again, that undermines basic economics, human choice, the market, and the products themselves. You're trying to rig the game, essentially. The mere existence of any users who choose one over the other because of any preference, no matter how perceptively "small" it is, is enough to make it a consideration--that's how indifference, wealth, and basic choice work. It is not a numbers game and reducing it to that just for the sake of comparison is fine, but making any real substantive argument based on that is wrong.

And please, if you quote me directly don't say I misunderstand you; I understand you fine and I'm enjoying the debate. Disagreement and looking at it from a different perspective is not misunderstanding, and simply repeating that in order to push your point home gets nowhere.

 

[gdbjr]

Go look at the download stats and compare it against the number of Android devices. The people that mod their devices are a tiny minority of the total number of users. I'm not sure why you continue to deny it; its a common sense fact that everyone here except you seems to already know.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

To help back this up, here are the CM download stats.


Of all the version of CM there are just a tick over 2 million installs. Sure there are other ROM out there, but no where near the popularity of CM 7/9. So again modders are a tiny, tiny, tiny slice of the total user base.

 

[crackberrytraitor]

To help back this up, here are the CM download stats.


Of all the version of CM there are just a tick over 2 million installs. Sure there are other ROM out there, but no where near the popularity of CM 7/9. So again modders are a tiny, tiny, tiny slice of the total user base.

There are over 5 million downloads of titanium backup alone, which requires root access. And I'm pretty sure not everyone with a rooted phone has titanium. There are no stats for America, but in China 34 percent of iPhones are jailbroken. http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/05/03/one-third-of-iphones-in-china-are-jailbroken.

I wasn't referring to custom roms, I'm aware flashers are a much smaller minority. Just pointing out the people who have unlocked or modded their phones in some way are not as small a minority as everyone seems to think they are. Just about everyone with an iPhone I know has jailbroken it and none of them are nerds.

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[Ry]

There are over 5 million downloads of titanium backup alone, which requires root access. And I'm pretty sure not everyone with a rooted phone has titanium. There are no stats for America, but in China 34 percent of iPhones are jailbroken. http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/05/03/one-third-of-iphones-in-china-are-jailbroken.

I wasn't referring to custom roms, I'm aware flashers are a much smaller minority. Just pointing out the people who have unlocked or modded their phones in some way are not as small a minority as everyone seems to think they are. Just about everyone with an iPhone I know has jailbroken it and none of them are nerds.

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Just about everyone I know with an iPhone hasn't "jailbroken" their device. And they fit into the 18-25 demo.

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[crackberrytraitor]

Just about everyone I know with an iPhone hasn't "jailbroken" their device. And they fit into the 18-25 demo.

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I don't think the average Chinaman is any more nerdy than the average American. If that statistic even remotely carries over to the U.S. than 25-30+ percent of iPhones are jailbroken, and that is not some tiny insignificant minority.

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[ScandaLeX]

To help back this up, here are the CM download stats.


Of all the version of CM there are just a tick over 2 million installs. Sure there are other ROM out there, but no where near the popularity of CM 7/9. So again modders are a tiny, tiny, tiny slice of the total user base.

Personally I don't understand why modders think they make up the majority of the user base. The average user doesn't even know about modding. For many this goes way over their heads anyway.

Out of all the people I know with iPhones only one is jailbroken and that person is my son. The other 10?15 don't have a clue what all that means.

Those with Android also are clueless too . They wouldn't know the difference between a rooted or non?rooted phone. And even when they see what I've done with my phone, they're not impressed.

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[JHBThree]

There are over 5 million downloads of titanium backup alone, which requires root access. And I'm pretty sure not everyone with a rooted phone has titanium. There are no stats for America, but in China 34 percent of iPhones are jailbroken. http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/05/03/one-third-of-iphones-in-china-are-jailbroken.

I wasn't referring to custom roms, I'm aware flashers are a much smaller minority. Just pointing out the people who have unlocked or modded their phones in some way are not as small a minority as everyone seems to think they are. Just about everyone with an iPhone I know has jailbroken it and none of them are nerds.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

5 million downloads is a drop in the bucket, so that doesn't help your argument get anywhere.

Oh, and the survey you gave about Chinese iPhones is also irrelevant; the inclusion of the critical piece of information that a significant amount of those iPhones are grey market and come pre-jailbroken makes it so. In other words, those stats mean absolutely nothing for a market like the us.

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[crackberrytraitor]

5 million downloads is a drop in the bucket, so that doesn't help your argument get anywhere.

Oh, and the survey you gave about Chinese iPhones is also irrelevant; the inclusion of the critical piece of information that a significant amount of those iPhones are grey market and come pre-jailbroken makes it so. In other words, those stats mean absolutely nothing for a market like the us.

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Yeah, 5 million users is like only 2.5 billion dollars worth of phones. I'm sure the corporations aren't interested a multi-billion dollar market. And that's based on the fallacy of every single person who's got a rooted phone having titanium backup. Look if modders were so insignificant in the market, things like HTC dev and companie's bootloader unlocks wouldn't exist, crippled as they may be. They simply wouldn't spend a penny on it. And Phones like the galaxy Nexus, which are pretty much made for the tech saavy, wouldn't exist.

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[ScandaLeX]

You're still ignoring the fact that this is a very small community. 5M downloads of TB is nothing. Sure there are phones that devs feel they could make better. Not every phone I've owned have I felt the need to root.

Rooting for me generally kicks in when I find myself getting bored with my phone and by then I'm thinking of what I'll buy next.

Tappin' from my SGP 5.0

 

[_JKK_]

He was just just butthurt that the same thing that happened in the late 80's-early 90s is happening again. Apple ruled the computer market, with a closed platform. Microsoft comes in and makes a more open OS manufacturers can put on any platform they design, and slowly drives Apple to the brink of extinction. He saw the same thing happening again with Android in the smartphone market. Steve Job's business model can't handle competition.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Steve Jobs' business model, whether we like it or not, seems to be holding very steady.

Let's look at the facts: Apple is able to maintain a number 2 position in marketshare by releasing, roughly, one phone update a year. They are, by a huge margin, the leader in profit share. I get why people dislike Apple, but when you're wrong... well, you're wrong.

The situation at the end of the 80's and the early 90's is different, for various reasons. Apple partially killed themselves; they fired Jobs, their products slipped, the Mac OS fell far behind technologically (the architecture they chose was not future-proofed, etc, etc.), and they made stupid mistakes.

The Apple under Jobs, and the Apple now seems to have mastered their trade, and that's good for all of us. I doubt that if HTC or Samsung hadn't been pressured by Apple that we would have amazing devices like the One X, S, or the SGSIII or Galaxy Nexus.

Apple isn't going anywhere, for better or worse. In my opinion, for the same reason I don't want HTC going under, that's a very, very good thing.

 

[andyl66]

I hate apple with a passion. I also hate iPhone users, here's why! HTC, Samsung, LG, Motorola,Nokia, etc all support good causes and sponsor many sporting and artistic events. Guess how many good causes and sponsorships apple do? ZERO! They are the epitome of corporate greed. The business model jobs set up was for pure profit. I hate users of iPhones because of their ignorance.

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[_JKK_]

I hate apple with a passion. I also hate iPhone users, here's why! HTC, Samsung, LG, Motorola,Nokia, etc all support good causes and sponsor many sporting and artistic events. Guess how many good causes and sponsorships apple do? ZERO! They are the epitome of corporate greed. The business model jobs set up was for pure profit. I hate users of iPhones because of their ignorance.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

That, my friend, is the epitome of incorrect.

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[diecastdonkey]

I hate how so many people buy iCraps simply because of the "i". They basically just blindly buy because they aren't modders like us and don't understand what android really is. I'm not saying iOS user are dumb, they are just more casual users that don't care about specs

Sent from my Quattrimus ics optimus v

 

[ScandaLeX]

I hate how so many people buy iCraps simply because of the "i". They basically just blindly buy because they aren't modders like us and don't understand what android really is. I'm not saying iOS user are dumb, they are just more casual users that don't care about specs

Sent from my Quattrimus ics optimus v

None of my Apple purchases were blindly bought and I do care about specs.

Sent from my Macbook

 

[Ry]

I hate how so many people buy iCraps simply because of the "i". They basically just blindly buy because they aren't modders like us and don't understand what android really is. I'm not saying iOS user are dumb, they are just more casual users that don't care about specs

Sent from my Quattrimus ics optimus v

Because to regular consumers, the specs really don't matter.

I like to think that regular consumers focus on things like "does it take good photos?" and "are these popular games and apps that I keep hearing available on this phone?"

If a regular consumer picks up a phone and it can do everything they're expecting, they'll like that phone. It's about the experience.

And you don't have to be a modder to enjoy your device.

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[Ry]

I hate apple with a passion. I also hate iPhone users, here's why! HTC, Samsung, LG, Motorola,Nokia, etc all support good causes and sponsor many sporting and artistic events. Guess how many good causes and sponsorships apple do? ZERO! They are the epitome of corporate greed. The business model jobs set up was for pure profit. I hate users of iPhones because of their ignorance.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Apple was nearly broke and out of business. Steve Jobs cut charitable efforts significantly - a move that most others in his position would have made.

Now as they clawed their way back, do I think they could have done more? Yes. But business is business. Were shareholders clamoring for Apple to give back more?

And yes I say "more" because Apple did not completely end their charitable efforts.

project(RED), anyone?

Now some will say that Apple only backed project(RED) so Bono would back iPod and iTunes - but it's still a charity.

Also, hasn't Tim Cook brought back corporate donations for charitable causes?

And can you name charitable causes the Android OEMs donate to? Sponsoring artistic and sporting events is just marketing.

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[Ry]

Yeah, 5 million users is like only 2.5 billion dollars worth of phones. I'm sure the corporations aren't interested a multi-billion dollar market. And that's based on the fallacy of every single person who's got a rooted phone having titanium backup. Look if modders were so insignificant in the market, things like HTC dev and companie's bootloader unlocks wouldn't exist, crippled as they may be. They simply wouldn't spend a penny on it. And Phones like the galaxy Nexus, which are pretty much made for the tech saavy, wouldn't exist.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Things like HTC dev and bootloader unlocks - I see those as ways to keep the modding community happy. I don't discount their affect and influence they can have on their friends and family who are just regular users. It's all just good will and posturing really, creating a modder friendly image so the "tech savvy" don't badmouth their products to regular consumers.

When it comes to actual numbers, which neither side of the argument will ever truly have, I strongly believe that those who do things like root or flash custom ROMs are the minority. A number that really is insignificant when compared to all active Android devices out there.

Of the people I know who own a Galaxy Nexus, only one flashes custom ROMs. That's what I'm seeing.

And a smartphone in 2012 shouldn't be only for the tech savvy.

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