Apple loses lawsuit for not including charger...

[bkdodger2]

I just recently upgraded a friend's S7 so a couple of my spare bricks were given to him ...but again I feel like some here stop the bs with environmental...we know why you not including them ...I don't believe it for a second ...include the brick in packages ...plenty peeps don't upgrade like our members here ...it's a joke to include a cable with expensive phone no brick ...

 

[Mike Dee]

Except how many spare tires do you have lying around the house to make the complaint moot?

Anyway, how many of either of these does anyone have lying around? I mean, Apple specifically wants to take stuff out because their argument is everyone has enough of them....but the problem is everyone has a lot of the old tech, but way less of the new tech.

It really doesn't matter have many you have or don't have laying around whether its a charger or spare tire. My point is you know what you're getting when you buy one or at least you should. Whether it comes with a charger or not you still pay for it so we know it's not free. As far as I'm concerned it's worth fretting over.

 

[mustang7757]

It really doesn't matter have many you have or don't have laying around whether its a charger or spare tire. My point is you know what you're getting when you buy one or at least you should. Whether it comes with a charger or not you still pay for it so we know it's not free. As far as I'm concerned it's worth fretting over.

I'll highlight 2 parts of this article

“Tie sale” refers to the practice of forcing a consumer to buy two products in order to make one of them fully work. In this case, the judge considers the necessity of buying a charger after buying a new iPhone to be a tie sale. Of course, Apple argued that most people have chargers already, but that didn’t sway the judge


In 2020, Apple made headlines for making a bold move: it stopped including chargers with new iPhones. The company claimed that stopping the practice would be better for the environment since most people already own chargers. However, rumors circulate that the move saved Apple literally billions of dollars. Since then, other companies — including Samsung — have followed suit.


If a judge seen this a bad thing by Apple or another manufacturer and rewarded 1000.00 plus a charger something wrong . Manufacturer always for the longest tried to find ways to save money and they found this and now they paid in that situation .(I'm sure the judge not a tech person like us )

I can buy a s22U for my father once he opens the box and wants to charge his phone you know what's going happen? He's calling me saying they forgot the charger and to call them , we tech nerds know what's going on in tech world but my father and many others don't know this .


It's like buying white stone Dome screen protector and include the protector and UV light but no charger they say use the one you had or have laying around but you don't have a micro USB cable laying around because u have now all USB type C chargers

I'm sure you get the point

 

[MoreDef]

It really doesn't matter have many you have or don't have laying around whether its a charger or spare tire. My point is you know what you're getting when you buy one or at least you should. Whether it comes with a charger or not you still pay for it so we know it's not free. As far as I'm concerned it's worth fretting over.

I get that they say they're isn't one included in the box. I get how up front and honest they're being with what is and isn't included...but that's not the point. They're still changing the experience in a negative way for the consumer and expecting us to "go along with the times". Phones and chargers have ALWAYS gone together because one is needed for the other to function. The assumption that everyone who buys a phone already has a method to charge it is still an assumption that everyone loses on. The people who don't have a charger still won't have one, and the people who do have one won't have a spare. It's not about being wasteful, nor is it about saving the environment, and it's certainly not about being honest or dishonest. It's about providing the COMPLETE experience.

It's like going to Disneyland but being told you need to now pay extra to ride certain rides...and yes, they tell you this when you buy the ticket. Just because they tell you they're going to jerks, it doesn't mean they're not being jerks.

It's like any restaurant who used to offer free refills saying they will not longer offer free refills, nor will a drink come with the meal...because you can get a drink before you show up, or after the meal when you go home.

My point being a charger is not a frivolous and optional item. It's required for the experience, and the assumption we all have one already isn't a good enough reason to exclude it from the experience.

 

[Mike Dee]

I'll highlight 2 parts of this article

“Tie sale” refers to the practice of forcing a consumer to buy two products in order to make one of them fully work. In this case, the judge considers the necessity of buying a charger after buying a new iPhone to be a tie sale. Of course, Apple argued that most people have chargers already, but that didn’t sway the judge


In 2020, Apple made headlines for making a bold move: it stopped including chargers with new iPhones. The company claimed that stopping the practice would be better for the environment since most people already own chargers. However, rumors circulate that the move saved Apple literally billions of dollars. Since then, other companies — including Samsung — have followed suit.


If a judge seen this a bad thing by Apple or another manufacturer and rewarded 1000.00 plus a charger something wrong . Manufacturer always for the longest tried to find ways to save money and they found this and now they paid in that situation .(I'm sure the judge not a tech person like us )

I can buy a s22U for my father once he opens the box and wants to charge his phone you know what's going happen? He's calling me saying they forgot the charger and to call them , we tech nerds know what's going on in tech world but my father and many others don't know this .


It's like buying white stone Dome screen protector and include the protector and UV light but no charger they say use the one you had or have laying around but you don't have a micro USB cable laying around because u have now all USB type C chargers

I'm sure you get the point

I just googled Tie Sale and all I see is they are 50 percent off at Macys.

I think if apply this Tile Sale logic then flashlights should come with lifetime batteries, cars should come with lifetime gasoline since neither can't work without them. Where do we draw the line? I can't use a desktop PC without a monitor. If I buy nails I need a hammer.

I'm deliberately being silly, but this is how frivolous law suits start.

 

[mustang7757]

I just googled Tie Sale and all I see is they are 50 percent off at Macys.

I think if apply this Tile Sale logic then flashlights should come with lifetime batteries, cars should come with lifetime gasoline since neither can't work without them. Where do we draw the line? I can't use a desktop PC without a monitor. If I buy nails I need a hammer.

I'm deliberately being silly, but this is how frivolous law suits start.

Your not wrong, but never Right
I get what you also mean , by the way can u link that Macy coupon?

 

[MoreDef]

Gas for your car is the equivalent of electricity for your phone, so it's not quite the same. It would be more like getting spare tires instead of regular tires, with an option to buy real tires when the spares inevitably fail. You can have a phone, it's probably got some charge, but if when it runs out, you're out of luck unless you bought/have a charger.

You could also think of it like something that's ALWAYS come with cars but is now an option...like air conditioning, a cassette or cd player, or even a radio. Yeah, you can do without it, but why would you have to? Yeah, you can buy something or install something that fixes the problem, but why is it a problem now when it wasn't a few years ago?

 

[Mike Dee]

Gas for your car is the equivalent of electricity for your phone, so it's not quite the same. It would be more like getting spare tires instead of regular tires, with an option to buy real tires when the spares inevitably fail. You can have a phone, it's probably got some charge, but if when it runs out, you're out of luck unless you bought/have a charger.

You could also think of it like something that's ALWAYS come with cars but is now an option...like air conditioning, a cassette or cd player, or even a radio. Yeah, you can do without it, but why would you have to? Yeah, you can buy something or install something that fixes the problem, but why is it a problem now when it wasn't a few years ago?

I did state that I was deliberately being silly. Still cant use a desktop PC without a monitor and they used come as set. It's actually better they aren't because you can but what you like.

The bottom line is we know up front you can buy the charger if you need one. It's not free so why do i need one if I already have several that I never even take out of the box? I just don't see it as a big deal, but I'm sure some do.

 

[MoreDef]

I get it. And you're right in the sense that some things are better apart, like desktop PC's. I guess it's all about preference. My gripe is and always will be when the preference is skewed towards mandatorily less, as opposed to the option of less, that's where it rubs me the wrong way.

 

[anon(50597)]

Good discussion by all. I can see both sides.

Do I believe Apple is doing this mostly to make money? Of course. At the same time I am a believer that we need to do something about electronic waste. Instead of this vs. that we need to be creative and open to new ideas. I don’t have the answer but I’m open to ideas. Some day, perhaps, we will charge our phones without needing a separate device. Figure that out and you’ll be set for life.

 

[mustang7757]

Good discussion by all. I can see both sides.

Do I believe Apple is doing this mostly to make money? Of course. At the same time I am a believer that we need to do something about electronic waste. Instead of this vs. that we need to be creative and open to new ideas. I don’t have the answer but I’m open to ideas. Some day, perhaps, we will charge our phones without needing a separate device. Figure that out and you’ll be set for life.

Agree good discussion here back n forth

 

[MoreDef]

Agreed. Good stuff and a healthy exchange here.

Maybe it's as simple as a base purchase with add-ons? And I mean that in a very transparent sense. Technically, right now, Samsung and Apple do that, where they give you the bare minimum...but they're charging you near the same amount as they did the previous years. This leaves people feeling a little cheated as they're paying the same amount, but getting less product.

Let's be real, the mark-up is ridiculous if you look at the cost to produce. It's around $400 to $500 for most flagships, which doubles by the time we see it. I think if they lowered the price to near $800, then started giving you options at a discounted price for chords, bricks, cases, screen protectors and wired earbuds, you would see who actually needed those things, versus the people who actually didn't need them. Right now, it's assumed no one needs them, and that everyone has them, and that's just not right. If Apple ate a little of their profit with their phones and accessories ($30 for a case is dumb, real talk), they'd make it all back in good will and customers who didn't feel like they were just groped on a train but don't know by who.

 

[Mooncatt]

Let's be real, the mark-up is ridiculous if you look at the cost to produce. It's around $400 to $500 for most flagships, which doubles by the time we see it.

The problem with this argument is it only accounts for a portion of the company's expenses. It doesn't include other costs like R&D, advertising, transportation, back office/support staff, taxes, years of continuing "free" software development, etc. The reason those low numbers are thrown out is because it's somewhat easy to track down the cost of the parts lists, but not all the other costs (which are typically held close to the company's chest and not public), which causes this misplaced idea of a massive markup that doesn't actually exist.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Some day, perhaps, we will charge our phones without needing a separate device. Figure that out and you’ll be set for life.

That would be a game changer and the best possible solution to the problem.

 

[mustang7757]

The problem with this argument is it only accounts for a portion of the company's expenses. It doesn't include other costs like R&D, advertising, transportation, back office/support staff, taxes, years of continuing "free" software development, etc. The reason those low numbers are thrown out is because it's somewhat easy to track down the cost of the parts lists, but not all the other costs (which are typically held close to the company's chest and not public), which causes this misplaced idea of a massive markup that doesn't actually exist.

Or how many billions a person makes in the company, god bless them lol

 

[Mooncatt]

Or how many billions a person makes in the company, god bless them lol

I don't get myself involved in emotion based class warfare discussions.

 

[mustang7757]

I don't get myself involved in emotion based class warfare discussions.

Lol

 

[Golfdriver97]

I've also not heard of third party chargers causing excessive deterioration, outside of a factory defect or something.

The first thought that came to my mind when I read this was around the Pixel 1 when Benson found charging cables not to spec. I recall some devices being damaged in the process? I can't quite recall. Now, granted, not exactly the point you were making about the brick but kind of close.

Overall, I think the brick/cable should come with the phone. I also think that saving the environment should be a concern to everyone, and maybe even doing little things like not wrapping the brick in plastic is a step in the right direction. The cable especially, as cables can wear out from coiling, and just having electricity run through them.

Perhaps some kind of trade in? Give <insert OEM> an old brick for a few dollars off a new one (I only read the first page of replies so far, so if someone already suggested this, I apologize for repeating the comment).

 

[Golfdriver97]

Maybe these are small demographics

Honestly, I don't think these are small demographics. The changing from Android to Apple or vice versa, perhaps, but:

- people who jump iterations, like from an S9 to an S22

I think this is a bigger one than most people realize. Sure, all of us on here probably buy a new phone yearly. But I really think for every one of us, there are multiple people who either skip multiple generations, or upgrade when the payments are done (ballpark every 2-2.5 years).

 

[Morty2264]

Agreed. Good stuff and a healthy exchange here.

Maybe it's as simple as a base purchase with add-ons? And I mean that in a very transparent sense. Technically, right now, Samsung and Apple do that, where they give you the bare minimum...but they're charging you near the same amount as they did the previous years. This leaves people feeling a little cheated as they're paying the same amount, but getting less product.

Let's be real, the mark-up is ridiculous if you look at the cost to produce. It's around $400 to $500 for most flagships, which doubles by the time we see it. I think if they lowered the price to near $800, then started giving you options at a discounted price for chords, bricks, cases, screen protectors and wired earbuds, you would see who actually needed those things, versus the people who actually didn't need them. Right now, it's assumed no one needs them, and that everyone has them, and that's just not right. If Apple ate a little of their profit with their phones and accessories ($30 for a case is dumb, real talk), they'd make it all back in good will and customers who didn't feel like they were just groped on a train but don't know by who.

This is such an incredible idea and it makes so much sense -- especially from an economical and a sociological perspective.

Apple, Samsung, and the like could research, study, and track who bought which add-on accessories. Maybe based on what buyers purchases as add-ons, Samsung and Apple would be better able to advertise and promote those items -- or even offer them at a discounted price, to attract more buyers. Instead of having no idea how much each demographic or their buying audience bought/needed those add-ons, they would have the physical data right in front of them. It could work. Like you said, they'd have to eat some of the cost to still produce those bricks, etc -- but still, as has been mentioned above, not everyone will buy the bricks or will need them. It's not as if they would need to put one in every box. And based on supply and demand, they could alter their strategies. It would still mean less waste, as production of bricks and accessories would be more controlled.

I think screen protectors are a HUGE deal and if manufacturers included them as add-ons, I'd go crazy! When I bought my Pixel 5 I grabbed a screen protector from the Google Store too. I think they advertised it as, "select an accessory" or something. It was handy.

Also, you're right. Thirty dollars for a case is bonkers. I end up getting between 5 and 7 cases for each phone I get, and I don't think I've ever spent thirty on one. Admittedly, I was close (with taxes and shipping from Amazon); but for my Pixel 5, I think three of my five cases would equal thirty dollars!