Browser problem

[Cory Streater]

Re: AC website bloated!

Okay - based on your feedback, they have disabled the social networking portions of the footer in the forums. I believe it was connections to these sites that were impacting performance the most. You will still see them - above each post in a thread - but there are things we can do to get rid of the lag these cause as well.

Cory,

Thanks!

Some details...

Right now, I'm at work, using my Thinkpad T410 (core i5 M520), 4gig ram, running 64bit Win 7 Professional. Firefox 3.6.18 as well as IE 8.0.7601.17544. It did the same at home using my comcast cable and this laptop as it does here in the office (large corporate complex's network and internet access).

Same symptoms on my home PC (core i7-860), 8gig ram, running 64bit Win 7 Ultimate. Not sure the exact Firefox version (I think its 3.6.18 or 3.6.20) or IE8 version. (I'll post those later tonight when I get home.

It happens on the androidcentral.com home page, as well as the forums, whether I'm signed in or not.

In firefox I see "Reading..." or "transferring data from..." or "waiting for..." and a URL when it pauses...

examples include:
cdn.androidcentral.com
widgets.twimg.com
api.twitter.com
profile.ak.fbcdn.net
quantserve.com
Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

It happens when I switch pages (like click on an article on the home page, or a thread title in the forums) or even if I just hit "refresh" buton.

The page renders fine, and everything is visible after the pauses stop.

hope that helps.

The average PC doesn't get any beefier than that. The only thing that stands out to me is that you are a few versions behind on Firefox and one version behind on IE. That said, it shouldn't matter what version you are on. The expectation isn't that everyone needs to upgrade their browser to use the forums. That info does help though.

A CDN is short for Content Distribution Network. They actually enhance performance vs. impacting performance. Wikepedia defines a CDN the best:

"A content delivery network or content distribution network (CDN) is a system of computers containing copies of data placed at various nodes of a network. When properly designed and implemented, a CDN can improve access to the data it caches by increasing access bandwidth and redundancy and reducing access latency. Data content types often cached in CDNs include web objects, downloadable objects (media files, software, documents), applications, live streaming media, and database queries."

quantserve.com serves up ads, and it will be difficult to find a site that doesn't use some variation of these sites within their web pages. In the forums we use a lot less of this than other forums do they should be the last thing that loads on a page - giving you immediate access to the content you want to see. So you may continue to see a spinning loading wheel while it completely loads that portion above the header, but that shouldn't impact your ability to view page content.

For me, it's not so much that it's taking too long to load (Well, it is, but manageable time frames- like 5 seconds), but rather all the ads.

The ads on the right hand side of the page, under the forums, on the top, etc. They make this site almost unbearable. I've started coming on here less since the increase in the number of ads.

For the forums specifically, you shouldn't be seeing anything on the right side of the page if you are logging in. If you are not logging in, is there a specific reason why you don't? And is there anything we can do to make the login process easier for you?

Like right now, this quick reply box is about 2/3rds down the page. That means 1/3rd of the page is filled with ads (Under the box). I mean, okay, sure, they're all AndroidCentral related, but still. Just put a simple 1" x 4" rectangular box with a link...

The QR box is above the footer and their are no ads above or below it. Just at the very top of the page. Can you clarify this?

And then with the ads on the top of the page, I can easily say that half of every forum page is dedicated to advertisements. THAT, to me, is unacceptable. Maybe one banner on top, one banner on the bottom. That should be enough. Focus on the content of the forums, not generating revenue, and revenue will find it's way to you.

Again all that should disappear if you are logged in.

I have looked at several competing sites. I see ads inside of posts, in between posts, even more flash ads at the top and side of pages, and even ads above quick reply boxes. We don't do any of these things.

Cory, thanks for your detailed reply.

The footer still stutters on my screen (a PC running IE 7 with generally fast corporate internet access), especially if I scroll down far enough for it to be visible. A more general problem with having a large footer is that if I find I have seen a page before, I used to quickly scroll to the bottom to reach the "next page" buttons. Now I am apt to over-shoot, and end up in molassas-land in the footer.

I am sympathetic to your need for paying ads. I am less enamoured of all the blurbs and news links and whatnot down there. Isn't there some more central place (that I don't bump into by mistake over and over again) where it could live? Perhaps as a side-bar to the news area or something?

Again, thanks for your excellent service.

Regardless, your feedback is noted and there will continue to be improvements I promise.

 

[Cory Streater]

Re: AC website bloated!

By the way Fireshot. If you're referring to the Photobucket link in the QR box, that is an iFrame that allows you to insert images into the reply box from your PB account or from a Google search. It's not ad related, nor is it impacting performance. It's actually a feature that is there to help you upload images faster.

The 2 links under that are for navigation of the previous and next thread in the forum you are viewing.

 

[basketthis]

Re: AC website bloated!

Use Linux/Ubuntu with chromium browser. End of story. haha

 

[Puzzlegal]

Re: AC website bloated!

Okay - based on your feedback, they have disabled the social networking portions of the footer in the forums. I believe it was connections to these sites that were impacting performance the most. You will still see them - above each post in a thread - but there are things we can do to get rid of the lag these cause as well. . .

This seems to have helped. I still can't "jump to the bottom and move to the next page", but at least if I mistakenly try to do that, the page only stutters a little, instead of being mired in molassas.

I'm using an HP elitebook 6930p running Vista 6.0 if that's helpful. No, not a powerhouse, but it generally does the job.

 

[Fajo]

Re: AC website bloated!

Still having 1/3 of the page filled with nothing that I would personally need or want. I'm not trying to complain I'm just giving my opinion, I have reverted to the mobile version of the website to bypass that footer all together. It looks like crap but it makes it so I can bounce from page to page with no footer being loaded. :-X

It would be nice if they just included a Feature check box for login users to disable that footer all together

The page is snappier now.. Also I don't believe it would be a computer problem on my end

Laptop Specs
i5 Core 2.6 GHz
8 Gigs DDR 3 Ram
Nvidia 460GTX 1gig DDR 5 (Times 2)
40 Meg down 1.5meg up DSL
120Gig SDD Primary followed by 500Gig WD 7200 RPM
FireFox 6 (updated today was on 5)

 

[milominderbinde]

Which browser? IE9
Have you cleared cache/cookies? Yes
Which of the following is true: Logged in clicking any forum link to open as a new tab.

Cory, please help. I have three computers using IE9, all different. Whatever you did with the new ads is killing me.

There is something Oracle svagent attacking my computer only from AC and only since the new ads.

The tabs open but cannot be accessed. The only way is to stay within one opened tab so that the ads don't try to keep reopeing.

Please help. It is still going on as of 08/16/2011.

Also, the new fonts are so hard to read on two of my systems. Changing font settings in my systems or IE9 does not correct them. Any ideas?

I have tried Chrome but it does not allow the Switch Editor Mode button to work when editing text so you cannot see your text with the fonts and images. No WYSIWYG. Any ideas?

 

[milominderbinde]

I rebooted one laptop again, cleared all cookies again, and tried IE9 again. It is taking forever to load new AC forums tabs but eventually they do open now without crashing. It is just slow to load all the ads, headers, footers, etc. It is when the ad overlay covers the page for the PlayBook that it really takes a long time. This is a new Dell XPS i7 wunning Windows 7. All other sites load almost instantly.

 

[Cory Streater]

Milo - passed this on to the developer and he thinks he has a fix . Just to clarify your statement above "Whatever you did with the new ads is killing me." I'm just the messenger on this one

 

[fireshot91]

Re: AC website bloated!

I mean all of this. It takes me 3 pictures to fit them all...That's when you know it's too much.


And yes, the ads on the right do go away when you log in. I can't always be logged in though, and sure, it's a method to promote more users into registering for the site, and I see from the management/admin side how it is needed, but from a user side, it's not something I like. Eh, the logging in is the same as any other VB forum, no big deal. That one page that always pops up after you log in ("Click here if you are not redirected") is annoying. But no forum I've ever gone on has that disabled.

Yes, you guys don't do ads inside the actual forum content, if you're logged in, which is much appreciated. But there's no reason for all that in the footer (See screenshots). A simple rectangular button with a link to the site would work fine, no need for pictures, the "From the forums", etc.

 

[milominderbinde]

Milo - passed this on to the developer and he thinks he has a fix . Just to clarify your statement above "Whatever you did with the new ads is killing me." I'm just the messenger on this one

Cory,

Thanks!

I just rebooted the second machine, an XP desktop with IE9. So far so good but again every so often when the Playbook ad comes up and covers the page, it takes a long time to load.

We know that it is the ads that were crashing us contantly last week because when you go to mobile mode, no crashes, instant loads. Also, we know it is the splash ads that come up when a new browser tab opens. As long as you stay in the same browser tab, the ads that cover the whole screen rarely come up.

The biggest problem continues to be the font that is rendered in IE9. I cannot chang eit with system fonts of IE9 fonts so this is hard coded by AC. PreCentral is fine. For instance if you make this post with the Switch Editor Mode button OFF so you can see the code, the font is maybe 7 points and whatever font it is is nearly impossible to read. When you switch to WYSIWYG, the font size increases and is legible. That has to be a problem in a VB setting. I will start a new thread on the font problems.

I would use Chrome but it does not allow the Switch Editor Mode button to work when editing text so you cannot see your text with the fonts and images. No WYSIWYG.

Is there any chance that we could ask the developers to test their changes on IE?

 

[Mark_Venture]

Re: AC website bloated!

Okay - based on your feedback, they have disabled the social networking portions of the footer in the forums. I believe it was connections to these sites that were impacting performance the most. You will still see them - above each post in a thread - but there are things we can do to get rid of the lag these cause as well.

If they've made changes, I haven't noticed them yet. Still laggy right now.

Some additional sites it pauses on today...

files.netshelter.net
seg.sharethis.com

The average PC doesn't get any beefier than that. The only thing that stands out to me is that you are a few versions behind on Firefox and one version behind on IE. That said, it shouldn't matter what version you are on. The expectation isn't that everyone needs to upgrade their browser to use the forums. That info does help though.

I've updated Firefox on both to 3.6.20. I know there is a newer version, but my T410 is my work computer, using their standard image so for compatibility with in house tools, I must stick with whey they call out as the supported/tested version. Since I sometimes (although rarely) do some work via my home PC, I tend to keep it the same.

I haven't upgraded IE to 9 because, well, I'm lazy I'll try that, but like you said that shouldn't be required.

I'll give IE9 a try on my home PC later today, if I get a chance.

Again,I thank you for your attention, suggestions and help!!

 

[milominderbinde]

Android Central vBulletin edit fonts unreadably small

Fonts
A few weeks ago a change was made to VBulletin that has made editing almost impossible for me on two of my computers.

AC Forums is locking the font so that I cannot correct it with system fonts or IE9 font options. PreCentral is fine. For instance if you make this post with the Switch Editor Mode button OFF so you can see the code, the font is maybe Arial Narrow 8 pointsbut it is nearly impossible to read. Take a look:

Notice how it looks like the word impossile looks like it is "im poss ible". And "locking" looks like "bcking"These are kerning errors in the narrow font. Zooming in to 125% actually make the letters smash together more making it harder to read.

Here is that same screen to post on PreCentral:

When you switch to WYSIWYG, the font size increases and is more legible but still no where as good as PreCentral.

Help!

 

[milominderbinde]

Re: Android Central vBulletin edit fonts unreadably small

Here is how bad it is to read AndroidCentral Threads. This is normal text but 110% Zoom to try to show it better. This 110% Zoom is where Android Central forum text is the most legible:

That is just "im poss ible" to read. Look at how huge the gaps are between line. Please help.

Here is what a post looks like in PreCentral at the same zoom:

Please ask the developers to fix our fonts to be legible again like PreCentral's still are.

Thanks!

 

[milominderbinde]

Re: AC website bloated!

When I open a forum thread while staying in a tab it opens pretty quickly. When I right click on a forum link to open it in a new tab is when it locks up.

It does not lock up if I switch to http://m.forums.androidcentral.com/

So it is not a site problem. It is an ad issue that is hanging up IE9.

 

[Cory Streater]

Re: Android Central vBulletin edit fonts unreadably small

Milo,

As I mentioned in the other thread, they are working on this issue. I'll keep you posted as I hear more.

Thanks,

Cory

 

[Puzzlegal]

I continue to be surprised at how much nicer the Pre Central forum is. It looks better, it loads faster, it is configured in ways that are more convenient to me (e.g., one click on user cp takes me to new comments on tagged threads. Here I need to carefully scroll down the list and select that.) It's like a metaphor for how clean and simple the Pre interface is, and how you have to press more buttons and put up with ads in Android.

But it's funny they are so different, seeing as they are on the same parent site.

 

[redburgundy]

Why are these forums so slow to load?

These are some of the "waiting for" sites that appear before the forum pages are finally loaded:
quantserve
doubleclick
google-analytics
crowdscience
gstatic

Why do we have to put up with waiting 45-60 seconds every time we select a forum or click on a forum message?

 

[Cory Streater]

one click on user cp takes me to new comments on tagged threads.

The very first menu option in the navbar User CP (your control panel) brings up the exact same screen as P|C does. The 3rd option links you directly to the Subscribed Threads screen vs. having to scroll down the screen to get to the subscribed threads link. Even if you choose to do the latter, the User CP menus have been rearranged so you can access both your messaging and subscribed threads more quickly. There are also collapse buttons for menus you are not interested in seeing. If anything, this should give you quicker access to these options than what you've experienced in the past. Scroll to the bottom for a comparison. This is not a contest between sites, and I'm not trying to say we are better than they are. But there are some features we've added here that are unique.

Additional & Exclusive Forum Features

• Instant uploads of Photobucket/Google pics to posts. No more having to upload a pic to Photobucket, grabbing the image code and then having to come back to the forum post to paste the link. It's all done within an iFrame.
• Additional functionality for creating Warnings, Notes, and Info boxes around text.
• Strike-though and highlighting stuff text.
• Github/Google Plus/Facebook/Twitter social networking icons
• Search options within the Navbar pull-down for unanswered threads, your threads, your posts, and a check-box to search thread titles only.
• Member activity stats in the community pull-down menu, which is also the green bar in your postbit. 6 post per day for 7 days straight = 100% activity. 1 visit per day counts as a post.
• Custom user titles vs. titles being based on post count. Prior to that change, a person with 2,000 posts could be labeled an Android Genius based on post count alone. Ditched that in favor of letting you create your own custom title.
• Quick links menu lists open contests and direct access to manufacture based forum categories.
• Larger avatars 130x90 vs. 90x90.
• Post templates: You can pre-configure post content for posting answers to repetitive questions rather than retyping them over and over again. I just added these - you can configure in your User CP and they will be available in the post editor pull-down menu. Select the template and the text is auto inserted.
• Smilie icons in a row underneath the message editor vs, a pull-down menu - the standard pull down menu requires you to click more in order to see the full list. This option displays all of them for quick access.
• Access to more options in the Quick Reply box without having to open the Advanced Editor.
• Links at the the bottom of the thread for navigation up to the next higher level without having to scroll to the top. Descriptive text for the next and previous thread underneath the bottom of a thread (vs. Next and Previous)
• Identify thread author in the posthead in each post within the thread.
• Removal of the forum rules box at the bottom of the thread (The box that says BB Code is On. HTML is OFF, IMG is On, etc.). If you read that I can put it back.
• Color coded WTS, WTB, WTT, and Sold prefixes in Marketplace forum.
• There are a gazillion more phones on the Android platform than there are on Palm - which is going to make our forums much larger. There are additional collapse buttons for all forums (not just the categories) that should make navigation much easier for members. For example, if you are not interested in seeing the "More HTC Phones" forum, you can collapse that section by clicking the minus button. This could effectively reduce the forum index by up to 75%. This will persist through login/logout events.
• Gigantic images are re-sized within posts for legibility on mobile devices. See Milo's post above for an example.
• Rows and columns for sub-forums with more than one sub-forum vs. a single wraparound of rows. For example look at P|C's developer forum and compare that to the "More HTC Phones forum"
• Last post column - the last by member name is on the same line as the time - reducing the space required to display this information.
• Consistent font sizes in all forum and thread columns.
• Forum FAQ (which is almost never used) has been replaced with Forum Rules in the navbar.
• When you look at your Private Messages list - you will see 2 lines of preview text - without having to open the message.
• 200 Private Messages vs. 50.
• Increased spacing between menu options within pull-downs with the intention of making menus more finger friendly when viewing the forums on a smartphone.
• Updated icons in the message editor, control panel, and other areas within the forums.

There are more that I'm probably not thinking of. None of these features adds additional overhead to the forums and is intended to enhance, not worsen the user experience. Most (if not all) of these features are exclusive to AC and are ones that I added. Not all will appeal nor matter to everyone. Advisers, Developers, and regular members all have different needs. So there are several features that are invisible to regular members. If any are overwhelmingly disliked, removing them is negotiable. However, so far they have all been well received.

The ads, footer, and header, are all things I have to work on with others. They are doing a ton of development work based on the feedback I have been giving them, but I can't just go in and start turning off ads.

User CP example from above:

 

[Puzzlegal]

The very first menu option in the navbar User CP (your control panel) brings up the exact same screen as P|C does. The 3rd option links you directly to the Subscribed Threads screen vs. having to scroll down the screen to get to the subscribed threads link. Even if you choose to do the latter, the User CP menus have been rearranged so you can access both your messaging and subscribed threads more quickly. There are also collapse buttons for menus you are not interested in seeing. If anything, this should give you quicker access to these options than what you've experienced in the past. Scroll to the bottom for a comparison. This is not a contest between sites, and I'm not trying to say we are better than they are. But there are some features we've added here that are unique.
. . .
There are more that I'm probably not thinking of. None of these features adds additional overhead to the forums and is intended to enhance, not worsen the user experience. Most (if not all) of these features are exclusive to AC and are ones that I added. Not all will appeal nor matter to everyone. Advisers, Developers, and regular members all have different needs. So there are several features that are invisible to regular members. If any are overwhelmingly disliked, removing them is negotiable. However, so far they have all been well received.

The ads, footer, and header, are all things I have to work on with others. They are doing a ton of development work based on the feedback I have been giving them, but I can't just go in and start turning off ads.

User CP example from above:

Thanks, Cory. I really appreciate that you are trying to make the site as good as possible. I think you may be subject to "insider bias", though. Extra stuff that you care about and looks good to you is extra clutter to a lot of casual users. And extra clutter makes the site less usable. It significantly slows me down navigating from page to page, for instance, and if I mistakenly dip into that footer by browser momentarly freezes and has to refresh the page when it wakes up.

So, for instance, the list of "top threads" and "most read" and such used to be in a discrete little box at the top. Now it takes up a huge amount of real estate at the bottom. The links to the relaetd sites (Crackberry, Pre Central, etc.) used to be small boxes and now they are big banner things with bits of news articles attached. I am a recent refuge from Pre Central, and I read the news articles there. But I prefer to go there to read them, I don't want the headlines cluttering up every page of Android Central.

Speaking of navigation - I like the user CP on Pre Central because I only have to click one thing. WIth the drop-down menu I need to click, hold, navigate, and release. Sometimes I am clumsy and miss. Sometimes I forget (since I use other forums with different defaults) and just click it, and get frustrated that nothing happens.

By they way, I had this same discussion with the manager of another vBulletin forum, after he changed the userCP to a drop-down menu. He polled users, and it was pretty well split between who prefered which style. He ended up making it a split button, where if you just click to the left it takes you to the old user CP, but if you click to the right you get the drop-down menu. (So it's really two buttons side-by-side.) That's a great solution, and was popular with almost all his users, certainly including me. I use the menu if I want fast access to PMs or something, but usually just click the "get there right away" button.

p.s. I get a lot of value from this site, and I would like you to stay in business. So I understand that you need ads. It was someone else who complained about that. Obviously, we all want ads to be unobtrusive, load fast, and all that. But ads are a necessary evil.

 

[Cory Streater]

Thanks again for the feedback. Maybe I haven't made this very clear, but the header and footer are outside the scope of what I do. Everything below and above it yes, but not the header and footer. I have definitely been relaying your feedback over to the guys that are working on this. Also, what you see here is what you're going to see on all Mobile Nations sites.

Everything between the header and footer, including the User CP are stuff that I work on. That's why I put the list together. If you can send me a list off of the bullet points above - that are extra clutter - I would appreciate it. I'll look at the User CP option you mentioned. I have never received a complaint about the way we are doing it, but if it makes the forums easier to use I have no problem putting it in place. For what it's worth, none of what I have done (in the bullet list) was done in a vacuum. It was all based on feedback from a large group of members. Particularly the collapse buttons, links above the QR (people hated having to scroll back to the top to go back a thread), and a bunch of stuff like auto reduction of image sizes and the elimination of the forum rules box which were all put in place to save space. I think we might be mixing the footer conversation with another one.

Anyway, lets get back to reporting any browser, rendering, or other crashes people might be seeing. Milo, and everyone else has this stopped?