Chromebook Discussion

in thread after thread you keep saying Photoshop and I have no idea why that's what stands out.
Because it is such a good example. It is something a lot of people use, and would miss on a laptop that could not run it. Even the cheapest Win8 laptops out now will run Photoshop CS2 well. I know that from personal experience. But there are many other misc examples. Photoshop is just a really obvious one.

I think anyone considering a Chromebook needs to know it's limitations. If if was me I would want to know. A win8 laptop is like a full computer...I could root my phone or do app development on any Win8 laptop I have seen so far
 
Some people on here have made the argument that Chromebooks can replace laptops. I don't think it is possible for the reasons I mentioned. I think the vast majority of people in the market for a mobile computer will want the flexibility a "real" OS like Windows can bring.


They can already do all of that on tablets and phones. Which are also more mobile. I think the majority of users that need a device for those things will just get a tablet instead.

I agree a lot of what Chromebooks do can be done by tablets and smartphones but for the majority of people having a "laptop" for $250 makes sense rather than spending on a Windows laptop that has flexibility for things most people will never use.

In any event having them capture the education market now will pay dividends in 10-15 years.

I forgot to add that an argument can be made that a Chromebook can replace a laptop as that is a personal use case scenario.

I think I previously mentioned but for me it has replaced my PC, I think I use Windows a total of once every other week to fix spacing for my assignments in Google Docs and that's it. I think for my next one I'm going to try Office Online and see if that corrects my problem. If it does than it has completely replaced a laptop for my specific use case.
 
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I agree a lot of what Chromebooks do can be done by tablets and smartphones but for the majority of people having a "laptop" for $250 makes sense rather than spending on a Windows laptop that has flexibility for things most people will never use.

In any event having them capture the education market now will pay dividends in 10-15 years.

And chromebooks can do many of those functions better or even much better than a tablet or smartphone, despite costing less in many cases.

I've said for awhile that chromebooks are as much a competitor to tablets, actually probably more so IMO (at least at this point), as they are to laptops. Chromebooks resemble laptops in form factor, but chromebooks are more similar to tablets in terms of function and use. In cases where you have to type (which is basically any situation that doesn't involve reading books or watching long movies/TV shows), chromebooks' keyboards and better internet browsers give them a significant advantage over tablets.
 
Because it is such a good example. It is something a lot of people use, and would miss on a laptop that could not run it. Even the cheapest Win8 laptops out now will run Photoshop CS2 well. I know that from personal experience. But there are many other misc examples. Photoshop is just a really obvious one.

I think anyone considering a Chromebook needs to know it's limitations. If if was me I would want to know. A win8 laptop is like a full computer...I could root my phone or do app development on any Win8 laptop I have seen so far

The point of the rest of the quote that was left out, such as the first sentence, is that Adobe Photoshop does exist as a web based app and has for years. That, and there are other options that hold their own as well.
 
I don't care about Photoshop, so the lack of that program and other programs I will never use is not relevant to me, an average user.

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I touched on a little of what you said. I do think the manufacturers are starting to get a little to confident with their pricing. If you have a $400 Chromebook and a $400 Windows laptop side by side the consumer is going for Windows.

Although Samsung as of now is the only manufacturer going past $300 and they do have a premium price on everything they make. If Acer or HP went to the $300+ mark without having a cheaper model that would be cause for concern.

Sent From My Woven Black and Yellow Moto X

The $400 chromebook will have a cell data plan included, the $400 windows machine won2.

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And chromebooks can do many of those functions better or even much better than a tablet or smartphone, despite costing less in many cases.

I've said for awhile that chromebooks are as much a competitor to tablets, actually probably more so IMO (at least at this point), as they are to laptops. Chromebooks resemble laptops in form factor, but chromebooks are more similar to tablets in terms of function and use. In cases where you have to type (which is basically any situation that doesn't involve reading books or watching long movies/TV shows), chromebooks' keyboards and better internet browsers give them a significant advantage over tablets.

I agree as I am one who just gave up his tablet and has gone with the Chromebook instead. A lot of the things that I was doing with my tablet, I can just do with my Nexus 5. I use the Chromebook for everything else. It is a much better combination to having a 5 inch phone and a 7 inch tablet.

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A detachable chromebook would be the ultimate consumer device. It still needs better media playback support but the custom chrome keyboard layout along with a tablet style screen for long reading sessions? Yes, please.

Lenovo is said to be working on a Yoga so that could be a start.

I see chromebooks as a great value proposition for the hardware they provide. We have now SeaBIOS standard and before that already had some awesome community tools for doing Linux voodoo so the argument that the machines themselves don't have Windows doesn't hold that much water for me. It's fair to be honest about what Chrome OS is, what it can and cannot do, but it seems deceptive to make claims like "it isn't a real computer" or "it can't use a real operating system" Obviously even something as simple as crouton is going to be a bit technical for some people, and that's fine (though many of those people would probably benefit from being on the relatively secure and tamper-proof Chrome OS!). After all, if it doesn't meet your needs for whatever reason, it's still a paperweight.

There are things Chrome OS doesn't do well but I'll gladly suffer those things in exchange for the things it DOES do well such as security and ease of software updates. The less time I have to waste on maintenance and administrative tasks, the better.
 
Here's a link to recent article discussing chromebooks in which I provided a comment identifying some of the current and long-term of advantages of chromebooks and more broadly, browser-based operating systems:

How I write about Chromebook

My original, full comment is as follows:

Joe - I appreciate your post shown above and your efforts to be objective about chromebooks' (and more broadly cloud or browser-based operating systems') sales patterns, despite your own pro-browser based OS biases. I actually looked at Jeff Nelson's blog yesterday (Monday 3/17) and saw your comment that you quoted above. Like presumably some other people who read your "Chromebook belongs to computing's past" article, I visited Mr. Nelson's website after reading his response to your article (and was not aware that Mr. Nelson is essentially the father of Chrome OS until I read his response to your March 10th article).

You are probably right that chromebook advocates (myself included) are probably overstating Chrome OS's future possibilities to some degree, based on current chromebook sales. Having said that, I wouldn't look just at chromebooks' percentage share of sales, but also their year-over-year sales figures. Many people have bandied about the NPD announcement from late December 2013 talking about chromebooks' market share in the commercial channel sales sector; I won't do that here. I will mention the absolute numbers however; according to this article an article I recently read (see Note 1), chromebooks' commercial channel sales increased by a factor of almost 4.5 from 2012 to 2013, from 400,000 units to 1.76 million units. Yes, that's a small base, but that is huge growth. Google themselves projects that skyrocketing growth to continue in 2014; the company predicts 4 to 5 million chromebooks (see Note 2) will be sold in 2014. Assuming that projection is accurate, 2014 sales would be approximately 2.5 times higher than 2013 sales.

I think the biggest hurdles for chromebooks currently are 1) people's fear of not having the "safety blanket" of a computer that can handle computational tasks by itself, rather than relying on internet connectivity and remote servers and 2) people focusing too much on and confusing chromebooks' form factor rather than how they are used. With the former fear, I think it is rooted in many users - especially those who used computers before the internet - experience with using what I have begun calling "device-based operating systems", such as Windows, MacOS, iOS, and Android. For those users, a PC's computational power is directly proportional to its usefulness. Many chromebook skeptics - most of whom I believe have never used a chromebook - state that a chromebook has less functionality than a comparable cost Windows PC. At the current time, that is probably true. However, what is missed by those skeptics is that what a chromebook CAN do A) it can do noticeably better than low-cost PCs (while still costing less in most cases) and B) covers most of what most PC users utilize their computers for. Additionally, "browser-based operating systems" like Chrome OS alter the device-based operating systems' computational power/usefulness relationship on its head because they don't rely on the device's internal computational power but rather external internet servers' computational power. Provided the internet connection speed and bandwidth is high and internet connection reliability is very high, remote servers will be able to provide more computational power to a computer than a computer's own internal CPU can. The key factor whether this external computational power will be utilized is whether the features people want, whether it is internet connectivity or a web application, is that the features are readily available. With internet usage continuing to grow, it is likely the functionality of the internet itself and by association the portals to the internet (i.e. web browsers) will also continue to grow.

With the second fear I mentioned above, I believe many people think that because chromebooks have a laptop form factor that they should only be compared with laptops. But form factor primarily influences HOW we do something on a “computer”, not so much WHAT we do on a computer. I would argue the smartphone and especially tablet revolution was primarily about providing a simpler and (at least in the case of devices that can fit in your pocket) a more convenient way to access the internet. Chromebooks, even though they look like laptops, are fundamentally focused on the same end goal as smartphones and especially tablets – providing a simpler and more convenient way to access the internet. Because chromebooks are optimized for browser performance relative to tablets and also have physical keyboards that allow for content creation, they provide very distinct advantages over tablets. Additionally, current tablets are, at least in my view, restricted by their device-based operating system limitations I described in the last paragraph the longer you own a tablet. Now tablets do have advantages over chromebooks (and the laptop form factor) for content consumption, but at least in my view the chromebook’s disadvantages for content consumption are not as great as tablets’ disadvantages for content creation. The fact that most of us have probably seen many tablet users work on their tablet with a Bluetooth or other keyboard (often in a semi-permanent set-up) I believe is proof that opinion likely has merit.

I want to add another important point RE: confusing chromebooks’ form factor with primary use function. Some people have been led to believe that Chrome OS, or more broadly browser-based operating systems, are form factor limited. However, that ISN’T the case – browser-based operating systems are form factor agnostic. Though an increasing number of technology writers have been focusing on chromebooks and Chrome OS, another browser-based operating system has been released in the last year – Mozilla’s Firefox OS. Firefox OS smartphones are already for sale, and I recently read an article indicating that Mozilla is developing Firefox OS tablet (see Note 3). And where is Mozilla focusing its sales efforts for Firefox OS devices – in emerging markets. And why is Mozilla focusing its efforts there – not just because those markets have less competition, but also because Firefox OS smartphones can be sold for very cheap prices (see Note 4). Browser-based operating systems have the potential to compete in both the desktop/laptop form factor segment and the smartphone/tablet (i.e. all-touchscreen) form factor segment.

To sum up why browser-based operating systems have, at a minimum, significant promise for the future (and likely the not-too-distant future), they are based on an operating system – the internet – that is likely to continue to improve, both in terms of content and accessibility. Browser-based operating system devices also don’t “age” as quickly as device-based operating system devices because the external servers’ computational power is frequently updated and increased. (In fact, at least in Google’s case with chromebooks, they have said they will support each chromebook model for 4 years - see Note 5.) Finally, they combine three very attractive attributes that device-based operating system desktops/laptops, tablets, and smartphones do not and likely cannot: 1) they are very simple to use and easy to maintain, 2) they are faster than all similar and most higher-priced devices (at least in the case of chromebooks relative to PC laptops and tablets), and 3) they can be produced inexpensively and sold for very low prices. That last point is and will be critical in enabling chromebooks, Firefox smartphones, and browser-based operating systems to increase their foothold and installed user base; in the case of chromebooks, user adoption didn’t start taking off until chromebooks hit the $250 (U.S.) and under mark starting in late 2012. However, because chromebooks can be sold at low prices and still enable their manufacturers to make some profit, it is likely low-cost models are likely to continue to be sold in the future.

It should be noted the three attractive attributes of browser-based operating systems listed above should be of great concern to both Microsoft and Apple; Microsoft should be very concerned about attributes 1 & 2 (especially 1) and Apple should be very concerned about attributes 2 & 3 (especially 3). This concern is more than trivial; browser-based operating systems, at least in my opinion, threaten Microsoft’s and Apple’s revenue models, which are based on licensing and exclusive software (Microsoft) and selling high-functioning devices at high costs for high profit margins (Apple). If “software” for browser-based operating systems is freely or cheaply available via the (growing) World Wide Web, Microsoft can’t sell as many licenses or exclusive software and needs to rely to a greater degree on sales volume to achieve the same revenues. Likewise, if browser-based operating systems function very well on low-end hardware, or more specifically as well on low-end hardware as device-based operating systems do on high-end hardware, it eliminates or greatly reduces the need to buy high performing but high cost hardware that has typically been Apple’s calling card. Because Apple doesn’t develop too much of what I’ll call value-added software (i.e. software that is built on top of the operating system; what I’m trying to say can be illustrated by the lack of Apple-produced applications in its own iOS app store), their inability to make profits on hardware and their own operating system could prove very problematic.

Regardless of all of what I wrote above, or what chromebook advocates or skeptics believe about the chromebooks’ (and more broadly, browser-based operating systems’) future, the fact an increasing number of technology bloggers, many of whom are technologically savvy with a variety of devices and operating systems, are speaking positively about chromebooks after using them means that chromebooks and browser-based operating systems may have hit what I’ll call a “holy ****!” moment. What I mean by that is if something is created and many people, especially those who are focused on a given sector, get excited about a product produced in that sector, in most cases that new product has legs, if it can be produced or utilized cheaply in mass quantities and either offers improvements over previous products in the same category or adds new capabilities to a given functionality.

One final, mostly unrelated thought – I agree that the most valuable user interface is you, and also that we’ll see increasing use of sight, sound, touch, and voice as user interfaces. However, each of those senses still has limitations associated with them – the blind cannot see and people’s eyes are sensitive membranes, the deaf cannot hear, many sounds have subtle differences in pitch or volume, and there are often background noises, touch has a degree of imprecision, and voice has privacy and use limitations. To truly achieve the “you” interface, we need to eliminate even the restrictions of the senses. How do we do that? By eliminating the physical aspects and limitations of the UI entirely and using brain waves – a form of energy – as the UI. Now make no mistake, there will be even greater security concerns with using brain waves as the ultimate UI. However, the benefits of a no restriction user interface – to enable our thoughts to control actions on computers, machines, and other devices – I believe will prove very alluring to the future generations (and possibly current young generation) of people who try to overcome the limitations of sense-based user interfaces.

Note 1 - Chromebook - Fortune Tech: Technology blogs, news and analysis from Fortune Magazine
Note 2 - Google To Cancel Subsidies Due To 'Booming' Chromebook Sales | Benzinga
Note 3 - Mozilla is testing the first Firefox OS tablet prototype | The Verge
Note 4 - Firefox OS - It's real and it works | CNet
Note 5 - https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/eol.html
 
Here's the cliff-notes version of the comment posted immediately above:

1) Chromebook sales are still low in market share terms but grew exponentially from 2012 to 2013 and will likely do the same from 2013 to 2014.

2) Some people fear moving away from device-based operating systems, but the advantages of browser-based operating systems will likely continue to grow.

3) Most chromebooks are currently used more like tablets than laptops, and chromebooks are generally better for internet use than tablets.

4) Browser-based operating systems are form factor agnostic, and Firefox OS is an example of a browser-based operating system that is already being used in smartphones.

5) Browser-based operating systems' advantages relative to device-based operating systems are 1) simplicity, 2) speed, and 3) cost. They also "age" more slowly than device-based operating system devices, and internet application functionality will likely continue to improve.

6) Browser-based operating systems are a threat to both Microsoft and Apple, particularly their revenue models.

7) The fact many tech savvy experts and others interested in technology are so excited about browser-based operating systems, particularly Chrome OS, means that they provide notable and real value in some way that is not a passing fad.

8) User interfaces will increase their reliance on sight, sound, touch, and voice, but the real revolution in UI will occur when the physical limitations of the senses are eliminated; brain waves UI is identified as an eventual revolutionary development.
 
Whoa. For some reason I stopped getting notifications for this thread. It's still going strong!

Mostly. Some of our really old CLI software at work is running on Linux but as an end-user on that software as opposed to the engineers working on it, the distinction is largely meaningless to me. I've used Linux regularly since 2006 and I fully replaced Windows in 2008. I only use Windows now for a few computer games on my desktop. For the rest, I use...well just about everything else. My desktop is a Mac w/OS X and a Windows partition and my current laptop is my HP 14 w/ Chrome OS and a Xubuntu chroot.

If I made more money (a lot more money...) I probably would have gone all in with OS X as I love it but it's hard to justify a $1000+ computer when a $200-$350 computer does all the things I need.

Do you use Libre Office or Google Docs on your Mac and Linux? If Libre does it do everything you need?

I agree a lot of what Chromebooks do can be done by tablets and smartphones but for the majority of people having a "laptop" for $250 makes sense rather than spending on a Windows laptop that has flexibility for things most people will never use.

In any event having them capture the education market now will pay dividends in 10-15 years.

I agree as well that Chromebooks and tablets can accomplish the same tasks but they each have different uses when pulled out. In my case I have a C720 and a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1. When watching podcasts and check Facebook and internet browsing yeah I will use the tablet but when I want to reply to this thread, send in a job application or type up something more than 1 or 2 lines that's when my Chromebook comes out.

I don't care about Photoshop, so the lack of that program and other programs I will never use is not relevant to me, an average user.

Posted via Android Central App

I do agree.

An average user will not use Photoshop because they don't want to pay for software when there are free alternatives that do what they need to do. We all know that Photoshop has so many more features and options than a freeware program but standard users do not care....most of what they do they do online. I work with average users everyday that think they need $800 laptops for email, most commonly because the Staples reps tell them they do.

I agree as I am one who just gave up his tablet and has gone with the Chromebook instead. A lot of the things that I was doing with my tablet, I can just do with my Nexus 5. I use the Chromebook for everything else. It is a much better combination to having a 5 inch phone and a 7 inch tablet.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I agree as well that Chromebooks and tablets can accomplish the same tasks but they each have different uses when pulled out. In my case I have a C720 and a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1. When watching podcasts and check Facebook and internet browsing yeah I will use the tablet but when I want to reply to this thread, send in a job application or type up something more than 1 or 2 lines that's when my Chromebook comes out.

Lenovo is said to be working on a Yoga so that could be a start.

I think this would be killer. I thought about buying the Yoga on the Windows side but the price to hardware was pretty low......I was looking at a Pentium Yoga for $699 and I got a i5 clamshell for $699. If the Chromebook Yoga was in the $200-300 range I could see it taking off. For over $300 I just can't see it now that HP is making the same Yoga style device for $400.

- - - Updated - - -

Does anybody know how or is there a way to sync files with Drive from a Ubuntu machine?
 
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Do you use Libre Office or Google Docs on your Mac and Linux? If Libre does it do everything you need?

LOL, well on my Mac I like to run System 7 in Basilisk II and use Corel WordPerfect. When I do actual work, I use LibreOffice on my chromebook. I am not a fan of Google Docs. I find the interface sluggish and limited. I hate how clicking on Writer automatically creates a new file. I will concede that it is outstanding for collaborative work though.

LibreOffice passes muster for me but I only need it for basic document editing. I sometimes use spreadsheets for a couple different things but those are just for making notes for myself, not for prepping reports.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
 
Is Libre Office web based, or installable under Linux? I have it for Windows, but wasn't aware it was available for Chrome.

Posted via Android Central App

Libre Office comes preinstalled on just about all Linux distros. It is free for Windows as well. I don't believe it has a web based option.
 
A detachable chromebook would be the ultimate consumer device. It still needs better media playback support but the custom chrome keyboard layout along with a tablet style screen for long reading sessions? Yes, please.

Lenovo is said to be working on a Yoga so that could be a start.

I see chromebooks as a great value proposition for the hardware they provide. We have now SeaBIOS standard and before that already had some awesome community tools for doing Linux voodoo so the argument that the machines themselves don't have Windows doesn't hold that much water for me. It's fair to be honest about what Chrome OS is, what it can and cannot do, but it seems deceptive to make claims like "it isn't a real computer" or "it can't use a real operating system" Obviously even something as simple as crouton is going to be a bit technical for some people, and that's fine (though many of those people would probably benefit from being on the relatively secure and tamper-proof Chrome OS!). After all, if it doesn't meet your needs for whatever reason, it's still a paperweight.

There are things Chrome OS doesn't do well but I'll gladly suffer those things in exchange for the things it DOES do well such as security and ease of software updates. The less time I have to waste on maintenance and administrative tasks, the better.

I agree. I'd actually like a form factor similar to the Lenovo Yoga, though I think I'd prefer a screen that can be "flipped" so that the keyboard and trackpad aren't exposed when it's put into "tablet" mode. I don't know if I'd want it to be actually detachable, but with a touchscreen interface, I think a hybrid tablet mode could be very useful. I was actually surprised when I first got my C720 that it's not all that much heavier or larger than my Nexus 10 tablet (at least with the leather case I have on my N10).
 
I agree. I'd actually like a form factor similar to the Lenovo Yoga, though I think I'd prefer a screen that can be "flipped" so that the keyboard and trackpad aren't exposed when it's put into "tablet" mode. I don't know if I'd want it to be actually detachable, but with a touchscreen interface, I think a hybrid tablet mode could be very useful. I was actually surprised when I first got my C720 that it's not all that much heavier or larger than my Nexus 10 tablet (at least with the leather case I have on my N10).

There is a Dell tablet/laptop that is like that, the screen flips so the keyboard isn't exposed in tablet view. I like is as well http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/ho...5AV?HP-Pavilion-11t-n000-x360-PC-ENERGY-STAR-

HP has said openly they are open to more than just Windows.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 10.1
 
Speaking of Office replacements/substitutes has anyone tried using Office Online? I find the Word web app to be pretty good and I'm thinking that it may replace GDocs for me.

If MS could find a way to add an app or extension that would allow offline access I think my days with Google Docs would be over.
 
Haven't tried that yet. I know that Microsoft announced that Office for Android would be free as well. I guess I don't completely trust Microsoft--I wouldn't be surprised if this were a way to hook a lot of customers, and then start charging fees again some time in the future.
 
Speaking of Office replacements/substitutes has anyone tried using Office Online? I find the Word web app to be pretty good and I'm thinking that it may replace GDocs for me.

If MS could find a way to add an app or extension that would allow offline access I think my days with Google Docs would be over.

I use the online Office suite. I find it more productive than Google Docs right now for me because all my files were created in Word and importing them to Docs screws up formatting.

Haven't tried that yet. I know that Microsoft announced that Office for Android would be free as well. I guess I don't completely trust Microsoft--I wouldn't be surprised if this were a way to hook a lot of customers, and then start charging fees again some time in the future.

I wouldn't worry about fees in the future. The free part is only for viewing and editing documents. To create you have to have an Office 365 subscription. Google is offering a lot of stuff for free or very little pricing and its going to force everybody else including Microsoft to do the same to be competitive.

Problem is its going to put the little guy out of business. I don't see Dropbox being able to compete with Google Drive now, especially if Onedrive has a big price drop as well.

Sent From My Woven Black and Yellow Moto X
 
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