Cost of Thunderbolt $$$

[seashepherd]

Ive got a $100 NE2 discount if I sign a 2yr. Im thinking I will do that and sell on ebay in approx 1 year to buy another phone at full price. Best option?

I think you'd be better off in the long run with a 1 year contract if you're wanting to get a new phone in a year. Think of it like this: Full retail price for a phone is $500...if you buy a TB with a 1 year contract it'll cost you $320 (without your NE2), or if you do a 2 year contract it'll cost you $150 (with your NE2).

Either way you'll be able to sell it for the same price 1 year from now so this figure is insignificant.

What matters is that the next smartphone you buy will be ~$500 full retail, or $250 with a new 2 year contract in 1 year.

So if you do a 2 year contract now, you will spend $650 total on phones.

If you do a 1 year contract now, you will spend $570 on phones.

...just my $0.02

 

[vzwuser76]

Yeah, but you don't have the option to swap memory. So Apple has you. When you have the option, you'd like to make the decision yourself.

Plus, I don't recall a phone coming out on Verizon for over $199 (after rebates). Usually when a new phone comes out, they price it at $199 and drop the price of the current phones.

The Droid 2 R2D2 edition was $250 at launch. What did that give us over a standard D2? A different exterior & Star Wars live wall papers.

Everyone is saying that all these other phones cost less (Atrix, Bionic, Inspire) but have the same or better specs.

The 2 Motos are dual core & have a bigger battery. We just found out that Honeycomb is not coming for smartphones & by the sound of things Ice Cream is adding a only few visual elements of HC, so the OS might not be able to take advantage of dual core until 2012. Moto says they are optimizing the software to better utilize the dual core, but personally I haven't been impressed with Moto's software (blur). If they are stuck using a single core, the Tbolt has already proven faster than each of their cores separately.

As far as the Inspire, I wrote the difference between them on the 1st page of this thread. To sum that up, the Inspire has a 65nm cpu (same as Evo/Inc but optimized for GSM) so not as fast, inferior gpu, and more of a battery hog. It has a 1230mAh battery compared to the tbolts 1400mAh. No front facing camera or kickstand, an 8GB card (vs. 32GB in the tbolt), & a more complicated backplate. Finally, you are on AT&T's HSPA+ (3.5G) network, whick they plan to move to LTE starting this year.

Looking at just the Inspire vs. Tbolt, if you price each spec upgrade out, the Tbolt comes out at it's price difference. Say $30 for the cpu, $15 for the battery, $20 for a FFCam, $5 for the kickstand, $40 for the 32GB card, & $40 for LTE capability, that comes out at $150 difference. You may not find some of these features worth it, but I don't think it's to unfair a price.

Now say we look at the Atrix/Bionic. There was a leak that each showed up on Amazon's website for $150. But the Atrix is going on sale for $199 next month, so I would guess the Bionic will be the same. So there's a $50 difference between the Bionic & Tbolt. I'd rather pay $50 more than get a phone with a cpu that's going to need a lot of optimization to reach it's potential, a VGA FFCam, MotoBlur, & an sd card 1/4 - 1/2 the size. But, that's just me.

 

[Forgetful]

Here is how the cost breaks out for me:
Phone: $250

Verizon Upgrade Credit: $30
Best Buy Buyback Droid Incredible: $150
Sell the 32GB Card: $50 (I have a 16GB already)

Total cost to purchase Thunderbolt: $20

What's the bolded item?

 

[DolfanCole]

The Droid 2 R2D2 edition was $250 at launch. What did that give us over a standard D2? A different exterior & Star Wars live wall papers.

I didn't like that price either, but it did include the dock as well. So there was more than just a change in exterior and added wallpapers.

Now say we look at the Atrix/Bionic. There was a leak that each showed up on Amazon's website for $150. But the Atrix is going on sale for $199 next month, so I would guess the Bionic will be the same. So there's a $50 difference between the Bionic & Tbolt. I'd rather pay $50 more than get a phone with a cpu that's going to need a lot of optimization to reach it's potential, a VGA FFCam, MotoBlur, & an sd card 1/4 - 1/2 the size. But, that's just me.

But the CPU is already as good or better than the TBolt (all benchmarks I've seen has the Bionic over the TBolt) without the optimization. You don't need anything more than a VGA FFC. And nobody has any idea on what the SD card will be at release -- I doubt very seriously many thought the TBolt would be released with a 32GB card. So, there's really no comparison there since we don't know. Now, if the Bionic is released at $150 (or $220 for 1-yr), it's a no-brainer for me -- I'd buy the Bionic. If the TBolt is released at $250 (or $320 for 1-yr), I'm waiting.

With all this discussion though, it's obvious that what people value differs from person to person. There's no wrong answer in this. It's just that I have decided that $320 would be too much for me.

 

[htowngator]

Selling it at $250 would be a big mistake especially when they just started selling the iPhone at $200 and AT&T will have the Atrix at $200.

 

[zero neck]

i'd aassume the r2d2 d2 also had to pay lucasfilms for the likeness.

 

[seashepherd]

If a one time fee of $320 is too much for you how can you afford to pay the monthly bill? Especially when you can sell it a year from now on ebay for $320!

 

[zero neck]

If a one time fee of $320 is too much for you how can you afford to pay the monthly bill? Especially when you can sell it a year from now on ebay for $320!

some people live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[vzwuser76]

I didn't like that price either, but it did include the dock as well. So there was more than just a change in exterior and added wallpapers.



But the CPU is already as good or better than the TBolt (all benchmarks I've seen has the Bionic over the TBolt) without the optimization. You don't need anything more than a VGA FFC. And nobody has any idea on what the SD card will be at release -- I doubt very seriously many thought the TBolt would be released with a 32GB card. So, there's really no comparison there since we don't know. Now, if the Bionic is released at $150 (or $220 for 1-yr), it's a no-brainer for me -- I'd buy the Bionic. If the TBolt is released at $250 (or $320 for 1-yr), I'm waiting.

With all this discussion though, it's obvious that what people value differs from person to person. There's no wrong answer in this. It's just that I have decided that $320 would be too much for me.

On the R2D2, I'd get ore use out of a larger sd card than a dock, and the docks are usually cheaper than a 32GB card.

Black_Man_X responded to someone asking why the Tbolt beat the Bionic in Quadrant and he said that (like Android) that test is not setup to test multi core phones.

Another thing BMX tweeted was how horrible the battery life was on the Bionic. While he said the power management was not quite dialed in yet, that's still a 1930mAh battery vs. a 1400mAh battery (he said the Tbolt had good battery life unless running on 4G). They may get better battery life out of it once it's dialed in, they might not. But if they only match or slightly increase compared to the Tbolt, to me that's a failure when you consider the battery is over 1 1/3 times the capacity.

As far as dual core, by the time Android OS is optimized for multi core cpus they will be rolling out triple and quad cores, which will be able to take advantage of the optimization out of the box.

To me, the things I'm looking for most is (in no specific order) FFCam, Memory (for multimedia), good build quality and a good software UI. I currently have an Inc. and beyond what I just mentioned, the better cpu/gpu, better camera (than the Evo/Inc) & 4G capability are a good upgrade for me.

This time around it looks like build quality will go to the Tbolt (based on some reviews at CES), and having Sense over Blur is always a plus. After using a friends Droid X, I just can't help but wonder why Moto is so hellbent on keeping Blur on their phones. That is one of the main sitcking points for many when considering a Moto (along with the locked bootloader to a lesser extent). They would probably sell a ton more with vanilla android (updates woudl be faster too).

 

[DolfanCole]

Black_Man_X responded to someone asking why the Tbolt beat the Bionic in Quadrant and he said that (like Android) that test is not setup to test multi core phones.

But from what I've seen, the TBolt doesn't beat the Bionic. That's what I was saying. The numbers I've seen have the TBolt around 1900 and the Bionic around 2200, out of the box. So, from what I've seen, it doesn't have a better CPU/GPU combo.

Another thing BMX tweeted was how horrible the battery life was on the Bionic. While he said the power management was not quite dialed in yet, that's still a 1930mAh battery vs. a 1400mAh battery (he said the Tbolt had good battery life unless running on 4G). They may get better battery life out of it once it's dialed in, they might not. But if they only match or slightly increase compared to the Tbolt, to me that's a failure when you consider the battery is over 1 1/3 times the capacity.

This is surprising. I haven't seen any of the tweets. But he doesn't mention any of that in his blog when compares the two. Really the only mention he makes on the battery life is that the Bionic has better battery life (which you'd expect given the battery sizes of the two).

 

[DolfanCole]

If a one time fee of $320 is too much for you how can you afford to pay the monthly bill? Especially when you can sell it a year from now on ebay for $320!

I can afford to pay $320. That's not the question. The question is, do I think it's worth it at $320? I personally do not think it is. But, obviously there are many that do.

 

[vzwuser76]

But from what I've seen, the TBolt doesn't beat the Bionic. That's what I was saying. The numbers I've seen have the TBolt around 1900 and the Bionic around 2200, out of the box. So, from what I've seen, it doesn't have a better CPU/GPU combo.



This is surprising. I haven't seen any of the tweets. But he doesn't mention any of that in his blog when compares the two. Really the only mention he makes on the battery life is that the Bionic has better battery life (which you'd expect given the battery sizes of the two).

You are correct on the quadrant, I was going off of the unboxing video and apparently so was the guy who asked Black_Man_X about it.

As far as the battery life, I posted the tweets on another forum. I'll post them below:

@black_man_x What about Bolt vs LG phone? Also, is tbolt one you were railing on for crappy battery life? Will it last all day?

@htowngator that wasn't the bolt with the battery life issue. I choose not to share which it was as the power managment hasn't been done

@black_man_x What about build quality tho? Tbolt doesn't have gorilla glass or quality of moto. How about battery life?

@htowngator moto is gonna win in build quality but htc has stepped up on the bolt. Battery will be better on bionic if they get it dialed in

@black_man_x You think dual-core that important? really torn over LG vs Bionic vs Tbolt LTE phone.

@htowngator I don't think dual core matters.. moto told everyone its locked it down so u can't hack it anyway. Bolt is much cleaner feeling

@black_man_x @ryjb So the Thunderbolt has better battery life than the Bionic even though it has a much smaller battery?

@RichardRClark @ryjb at this time moto hasn't fully fleshed out the power management.

@black_man_x When the time comes and both are available Bionic or Thunderbolt?

@ryjb more then likely bolt. I will keep my bionic but I need better battery life

After reading that I forgot he said the build quality was better on the Bionic. Some of the reviewers at CES said the plastic on the Bionic had a cheap feeling compared to the aluminum unibody construction of the Tbolt. I mistook that for build quality. But, he said htc has stepped up their build quality, and I like that on my Incredible, so that's still a plus for me.

 

[htowngator]

I'm famous now

 

[RichardClark]

I'm famous now

LOL. I'm in there too. I'll send you my autograph if you send me yours.

 

[rigorx]

I want a thunderbolt, but at $250, I can't afford to pay that much. I could pay it sure, but I just bought an internet tablet for $300. I just don't think a phone should be close in price to a tablet...at least not this close. I am thinking $150 and you got a sale through a third party site like Amazon, Letstalk, or wirefly. I guess I will wait.

I'm sorry, but I think you're looking at this from an incorrect point of view. Good high end name brand tablets like the iPad, Xoom, etc, are generally more in the price range of about $500+. So a high end smart phone costing $250 subsidized is half the cost, not close in pricing to tablets.

Sure you can get all kinds of knock off brands of tablets for like $200.

 

[rigorx]

Here is how the cost breaks out for me:
Phone: $250

Verizon Upgrade Credit: $30
Best Buy Buyback Droid Incredible: $150
Sell the 32GB Card: $50 (I have a 16GB already)

Total cost to purchase Thunderbolt: $20

Didn't the BB Buy Back program JUST launch ? I believe you have to purchase into the buy back program at time of purchase of your handset, right ?

Also, you can definitely fetch much more for your DInc on eBay.

 

[DolfanCole]

Didn't the BB Buy Back program JUST launch ? I believe you have to purchase into the buy back program at time of purchase of your handset, right ?

Also, you can definitely fetch much more for your DInc on eBay.

It did just start, but it's free for a limited time. I can't remember the exact dates, but it's something like Feb. 3 - 26 or something. If the TBolt releases on the 14th, it's within the "free" timeframe.

 

[DolfanCole]

You are correct on the quadrant, I was going off of the unboxing video and apparently so was the guy who asked Black_Man_X about it.

As far as the battery life, I posted the tweets on another forum. I'll post them below:

@black_man_x What about Bolt vs LG phone? Also, is tbolt one you were railing on for crappy battery life? Will it last all day?

@htowngator that wasn't the bolt with the battery life issue. I choose not to share which it was as the power managment hasn't been done

@black_man_x What about build quality tho? Tbolt doesn't have gorilla glass or quality of moto. How about battery life?

@htowngator moto is gonna win in build quality but htc has stepped up on the bolt. Battery will be better on bionic if they get it dialed in

@black_man_x You think dual-core that important? really torn over LG vs Bionic vs Tbolt LTE phone.

@htowngator I don't think dual core matters.. moto told everyone its locked it down so u can't hack it anyway. Bolt is much cleaner feeling

@black_man_x @ryjb So the Thunderbolt has better battery life than the Bionic even though it has a much smaller battery?

@RichardRClark @ryjb at this time moto hasn't fully fleshed out the power management.

@black_man_x When the time comes and both are available Bionic or Thunderbolt?

@ryjb more then likely bolt. I will keep my bionic but I need better battery life

After reading that I forgot he said the build quality was better on the Bionic. Some of the reviewers at CES said the plastic on the Bionic had a cheap feeling compared to the aluminum unibody construction of the Tbolt. I mistook that for build quality. But, he said htc has stepped up their build quality, and I like that on my Incredible, so that's still a plus for me.

Do you know if that's the whole PMU issue that was brought up? I'd have to think that it's been addressed now since the issue was raised with the Atrix as well as the Bionic. And the Atrix is coming out this month.

 

[vzwuser76]

Do you know if that's the whole PMU issue that was brought up? I'd have to think that it's been addressed now since the issue was raised with the Atrix as well as the Bionic. And the Atrix is coming out this month.

That was the story that was on Engadget & others. The issues were overheating & RF interference. As I recall all they said was that they phones didn't overheat, but didn't address the battery issue BMX talked about. Somebody asked BMX about it & he said something to the affect of "welcome to the last 2 months of my life". While I'd like to believe that the situation will be remedied before launch, it may just be something that users will have to deal with.

I look at dual core the way I look at purchasing other things like cars & computers, never buy the first model. There are inevitably issues that they have to work out. I'd rather wait and get something that has the issues ironed out. The biggest obstacle in this case is the OS being able to utilize multiple core cpus. I think once they get that resolved, the leap from dual to triple or quad cores won't be as significant. They can take what they learned on dual cores and apply it toward the newer multi cores. I think once they get past this year, there will be smoother sailing in that area.

As I'm buying this off contract to set myself up for going to 1 year contracts from now on (my upgrade date is 12/2011) I will be able to ascertain if they are far enough along to warrant upgrading to a phone with a multi core cpu. I'm not a big gamer so the only real benefit to me would be battery life (that's if the specualtion about multi core being more battery efficient ends up true). Right now my Inc gets great battery life and doesn't lag. The reason I'm upgrading is some of the new features the Tbolt brings are things I'll use and can't be accomplished on my Inc.

I'm not doing this back and forth to try and get you to buy one, you know what you need better than I do. It just gets old hearing everyone righting off the Tbolt because it's not dual core or it's too expensive. It'll still be a great phone just the same, and the added features IMO are worth the extra cost. It may not have the quadrant scores to match, but that doesn't necessarilly translate to smooth everyday operation. The X & Fascinate have higer scores than my Inc, but I don't see the lag on my phone like I have on those models I've tried out, & I think that has a lot to do with the manufacturer skins. Blur & Touchwiz are just not as fluid as Sense. However my brother's fiance is on our family plan with an LG Ally. LG has there own skin on there as well, but it's very minimal & that thing flies for the cpu it has in it. I considered waiting for the Revolution, but it sounds like that's a ways off. That phone's got the same cpu as the Tbolt and is very similar to it in other specs (at least the few specs we have so far) except for the LG having hdmi out. Plus it sounds like that will be even larger than the Tbolt, which is about as big as I want to go at this point.

 

[huguleyite]

I'm sorry, but I think you're looking at this from an incorrect point of view. Good high end name brand tablets like the iPad, Xoom, etc, are generally more in the price range of about $500+. So a high end smart phone costing $250 subsidized is half the cost, not close in pricing to tablets.

Sure you can get all kinds of knock off brands of tablets for like $200.

I have an Archos 101. That is not a knock off brand. Anyone that is even remotely into tablets knows them. I mean, even the nook color (lowest form of Android tablet anyone should even consider buying) was just rooted with honeycomb, and it costs $250. I read this week that the Galaxy Tab was going on sale for $250.00 too (as a subsidy of course). There are plenty of tablets right at the $300.00 range that will do just fine at this point in the game. I just don't think a phone should compare in price. Just my opinion.