DROID BIONIC Jelly Bean Update

[SamuriHL]

Actually, no, it was not obvious to me, as I am not an industry insider and really get most of my information about this here (and, please, don't take that sentence as sarcasm; its not). I would have attributed the issues with the builds more to the carrier than to the OS sponsor. Plus, I would have attributed some of the issues to products in the pipeline pre-dating the Google acquisition. Now, I have to ask (again, in all seriousness), what did Google acquire Moto for, if not to have its own in-house hardware manufacturer? If its an absolute firewall, what's the benefit to either organization?

So it's actually my bad for assuming everyone knew what Google acquired Moto for. It was not the phones. It was for the patents. It had absolutely nothing at all to do with the phones, hardware or software wise. CERTAINLY not software wise as Moto is horribly bad at software. Yes, I know, you'll point to our ICS build as being contradictory to that statement, but, then I'll rebut with the RAZR and D4 ICS builds, the fiasco that is the RAZR JB build, and the disaster that's been the Bionic JB story thus far. Top it off with the fact that the M and HD are still running 4.1.x. Google refuses to get their hands dirty and really take ownership of Moto. They've stated since day 1 that it will be left to run as a separate division. Now, some of those boundaries have been crossed because once Google completed the acquisition, they realized just *HOW* bad things really are there. And so they've provided......."guidance". But, no, they are strictly hands off. They've burned through or killed off all the Moto pipeline. So, we'll see how much Google influence is in the upcoming phones. I do know they aren't happy at all with what Moto had in the pipeline. And if a Moto phone is going to showcase KLP, you can be your sweet bippy that Google is going to make sure it meets their standards. But what I don't know is how "hands on" Google will be with the design of these new phones. Anyway, back to the original point. Google acquired patents....and as far as their concerned, they don't much care about anything else that came with it.

 

[gwhizkids]

So it's actually my bad for assuming everyone knew what Google acquired Moto for. It was not the phones. It was for the patents. It had absolutely nothing at all to do with the phones, hardware or software wise. CERTAINLY not software wise as Moto is horribly bad at software. Yes, I know, you'll point to our ICS build as being contradictory to that statement, but, then I'll rebut with the RAZR and D4 ICS builds, the fiasco that is the RAZR JB build, and the disaster that's been the Bionic JB story thus far. Top it off with the fact that the M and HD are still running 4.1.x. Google refuses to get their hands dirty and really take ownership of Moto. They've stated since day 1 that it will be left to run as a separate division. Now, some of those boundaries have been crossed because once Google completed the acquisition, they realized just *HOW* bad things really are there. And so they've provided......."guidance". But, no, they are strictly hands off. They've burned through or killed off all the Moto pipeline. So, we'll see how much Google influence is in the upcoming phones. I do know they aren't happy at all with what Moto had in the pipeline. And if a Moto phone is going to showcase KLP, you can be your sweet bippy that Google is going to make sure it meets their standards. But what I don't know is how "hands on" Google will be with the design of these new phones. Anyway, back to the original point. Google acquired patents....and as far as their concerned, they don't much care about anything else that came with it.

And now its my turn for a "DUH" moment. Of course. And I remember reading that at the time. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[drstrangelove5]

As of now yes, what you say is true; it was purchased for patents. But when they transfer Sr leadership from Google to Motorola (punit soni) you can't believe the separate entity thing.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

 

[zachthebomb13]

So it's actually my bad for assuming everyone knew what Google acquired Moto for. It was not the phones. It was for the patents. It had absolutely nothing at all to do with the phones, hardware or software wise. CERTAINLY not software wise as Moto is horribly bad at software. Yes, I know, you'll point to our ICS build as being contradictory to that statement, but, then I'll rebut with the RAZR and D4 ICS builds, the fiasco that is the RAZR JB build, and the disaster that's been the Bionic JB story thus far. Top it off with the fact that the M and HD are still running 4.1.x. Google refuses to get their hands dirty and really take ownership of Moto. They've stated since day 1 that it will be left to run as a separate division. Now, some of those boundaries have been crossed because once Google completed the acquisition, they realized just *HOW* bad things really are there. And so they've provided......."guidance". But, no, they are strictly hands off. They've burned through or killed off all the Moto pipeline. So, we'll see how much Google influence is in the upcoming phones. I do know they aren't happy at all with what Moto had in the pipeline. And if a Moto phone is going to showcase KLP, you can be your sweet bippy that Google is going to make sure it meets their standards. But what I don't know is how "hands on" Google will be with the design of these new phones. Anyway, back to the original point. Google acquired patents....and as far as their concerned, they don't much care about anything else that came with it.

They probably care at least a little bit. They want it to be profitable and successful to add to their total bottom line. That's why they got rid of the old leadership and replaced it. I just hope with the "mentors" from Google, Moto learns a thing or two. Like I mentioned a couple weeks ago, it's sad to see how they went from a innovative, great company to where they are now.

 

[SamuriHL]

As of now yes, what you say is true; it was purchased for patents. But when they transfer Sr leadership from Google to Motorola (punit soni) you can't believe the separate entity thing.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

I can, sadly. Based not only on what I was able to see, but, also what I know from inside. The senior mgmt was put there to make sure they become profitable again. That's another reason you don't see a myriad of crappy phone releases. You'll see a few in the top end, a few mid range, and a couple low end...per YEAR from here on out. The bigger question you have to ask yourself is this....if they can't fix Moto "quickly"...like say in 2 years....would they shut it down completely and just keep the patents? Let's just say it wouldn't shock me if they did. I'm not saying that's the direction they're headed or even considering. I'm simply saying it wouldn't shock me if that happened. You really have NO idea how poorly run they are and the extent of the problems Google has to fix. The ONLY reason they survived as long as they did was their partnership with VZW and the fact that they had to spend exactly 0 on their advertising for Droid phones. The amount of money they've lost is staggering.

 

[SamuriHL]

They probably care at least a little bit. They want it to be profitable and successful to add to their total bottom line. That's why they got rid of the old leadership and replaced it. I just hope with the "mentors" from Google, Moto learns a thing or two. Like I mentioned a couple weeks ago, it's sad to see how they went from a innovative, great company to where they are now.

That's the problem. "Where they are now" isn't so good and far worse than people realize. Including Google. The RAZR nonsense over Xmas really shook them up a bit. Especially when they had VZW screaming at them and other details I can't make public. They were just going to replace the senior MGT and leave it at that. However, now that they know the true extent of it, they have some hard choices to make. And given the precarious position they have with Samsung going all in on Tizen by the end of the year, pissing off their number 1 handset mfg is not in the cards. Why do you think that firewall exists? There are so many variables at play here. The biggest pain in the @$$ variable is VZW. Second is Samsung.

 

[jimlc]

You are right. In this thread there is no point in discussing anything else but the JB update for the Bionic. By all means start a different thread and go to town, but this thread is CLEARLY labeled "DROID BIONIC Jelly Bean Update".Love,
Troll

Here we go again, go ahead and start a new thread, no one is stopping you. I think most are happy here.

 

[zachthebomb13]

That's the problem. "Where they are now" isn't so good and far worse than people realize. Including Google. The RAZR nonsense over Xmas really shook them up a bit. Especially when they had VZW screaming at them and other details I can't make public. They were just going to replace the senior MGT and leave it at that. However, now that they know the true extent of it, they have some hard choices to make. And given the precarious position they have with Samsung going all in on Tizen by the end of the year, pissing off their number 1 handset mfg is not in the cards. Why do you think that firewall exists? There are so many variables at play here. The biggest pain in the @$$ variable is VZW. Second is Samsung.

It'll be very interesting to see where Tizen goes. Also, I read Vodafone is a co-developer of Tizen, and are also the parent/sister/whatever-they-are company of Verizon. So, I wonder if they will push it too, thus strengthening their relationship with Samsung and straining their relationship with Google/Moto? The Smartphone business is like a growing person. There was the infant and child stage. Then the big growth stage. Now we're into the teenage stage where there will be fights (apple vs. samsung anyone...), bickering, clicks, etc. It'll be very interesting in 10-20 years from now to study Google, and see how they grew their business and their business model, just like we look back at Moto in the 80's and study their business model back then.

Oh, and I wonder if Tizen can be side loaded onto the Bionic? (had to throw something out there about the Bionic so it wasn't completely off thread)

 

[drstrangelove5]

Can someone please explain to me how Samsung can be stupid enough create problems with Google? It appears to me that the two of them have a golden union together. Why "eff" it up. It would have been like 10 years ago for Dell to say were switching to Linux. It just doesn't make any sense.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

 

[SamuriHL]

Can someone please explain to me how Samsung can be stupid enough create problems with Google? It appears to me that the two of them have a golden union together. Why "eff" it up. It would have been like 10 years ago for Dell to say were switching to Linux. It just doesn't make any sense.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

Because they feel Google's move to buy Moto is a move against them. They believe that Google is trying to position Moto as the top selling Android handset maker. It's total nonsense, mind you, as no one can unseat Samsung. But, they also don't feel they have enough control over the ecosystem. Google controls the play store, for example, so they get to set the rules as to what's allowed and what isn't. All the big Android services are Google owned and operated. This is just another perceived threat where Samsung has to cede control to a company that, while giving their OS away for free, is making big bucks off the services that Google builds in. I don't see Samsung stepping out on Android completely, but, they're going to go all in with a high end Tizen phone by the end of the year. And if it's successful, they'll start moving more and more of their phones towards it. That gives them more control and a bigger piece of the profits.

 

[zachthebomb13]

Can someone please explain to me how Samsung can be stupid enough create problems with Google? It appears to me that the two of them have a golden union together. Why "eff" it up. It would have been like 10 years ago for Dell to say were switching to Linux. It just doesn't make any sense.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

Here's on article I found. Not the best answer, but sheds some light.
Tizen Is The Fulcrum Samsung Can Use Against Android And Google - Forbes

 

[drstrangelove5]

Because they feel Google's move to buy Moto is a move against them. They believe that Google is trying to position Moto as the top selling Android handset maker. It's total nonsense, mind you, as no one can unseat Samsung. But, they also don't feel they have enough control over the ecosystem. Google controls the play store, for example, so they get to set the rules as to what's allowed and what isn't. All the big Android services are Google owned and operated. This is just another perceived threat where Samsung has to cede control to a company that, while giving their OS away for free, is making big bucks off the services that Google builds in. I don't see Samsung stepping out on Android completely, but, they're going to go all in with a high end Tizen phone by the end of the year. And if it's successful, they'll start moving more and more of their phones towards it. That gives them more control and a bigger piece of the profits.

It gives them a bigger share of the profits if they are able to replicate the sales that they experience on android. Idk, If its not broke don't fix it. It also seems like they would they would just be moving money from one pile to another. People who would buy a Samsung tizen phone are buying Samsung and not tizen. I'm just rambling at this point.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

 

[zachthebomb13]

Can someone please explain to me how Samsung can be stupid enough create problems with Google? It appears to me that the two of them have a golden union together. Why "eff" it up. It would have been like 10 years ago for Dell to say were switching to Linux. It just doesn't make any sense.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

Here's another.
Samsung's secret weapon in the mobile wars: Tizen | Mobile - CNET News

 

[zachthebomb13]

It gives them a bigger share of the profits if they are able to replicate the sales that they experience on android. Idk, If its not broke don't fix it. It also seems like they would they would just be moving money from one pile to another. People who would buy a Samsung tizen phone are buying Samsung and not tizen. I'm just rambling at this point.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

In the CNET article they talk about trying to avoid becoming a "dumb pipe." I can see this as a main reason why they want some control to try and control their revenue. It was a decent article.

 

[SamuriHL]

It gives them a bigger share of the profits if they are able to replicate the sales that they experience on android. Idk, If its not broke don't fix it. It also seems like they would they would just be moving money from one pile to another. People who would buy a Samsung tizen phone are buying Samsung and not tizen. I'm just rambling at this point.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

No, I get your point and agree. I see this more as leverage against Google rather than a blatant attempt at jumping ship. This is the "threat" they'll use to hold over Google's head. Will it work? I don't know. Honestly, I don't see infighting helping Android in ANY way. They have external forces to work against. Windows 8 phone, blackberry has a new version out, iPhone isn't sitting still, etc. I think Samsung just wants assurances that they're not going to be squeezed out by the Moto acquisition, and I think they want to have more of a say in the ecosystem. Hell, they could be trying to get advanced access to future Android versions ala Nexus program for all I know. But, this is just one little weapon in the war we call business.

- - - Updated - - -

In the CNET article they talk about trying to avoid becoming a "dumb pipe." I can see this as a main reason why they want some control to try and control their revenue. It was a decent article.

That's pretty much the point I'm making, as well. So, if those two articles agree with how I read this, then that's a good sign.

 

[Ry]

No, I get your point and agree. I see this more as leverage against Google rather than a blatant attempt at jumping ship. This is the "threat" they'll use to hold over Google's head. Will it work? I don't know. Honestly, I don't see infighting helping Android in ANY way. They have external forces to work against. Windows 8 phone, blackberry has a new version out, iPhone isn't sitting still, etc. I think Samsung just wants assurances that they're not going to be squeezed out by the Moto acquisition, and I think they want to have more of a say in the ecosystem. Hell, they could be trying to get advanced access to future Android versions ala Nexus program for all I know. But, this is just one little weapon in the war we call business..

Maybe Samsung wants a piece of (or a bigger slice) of Play Store profits?

 

[SamuriHL]

Maybe Samsung wants a piece of (or a bigger slice) of Play Store profits?

I'm sure they do. Who wouldn't? Will they get it? Don't know. Depends on if Google calls their bluff and how serious they are about Tizen.

 

[drstrangelove5]

Maybe Samsung wants a piece of (or a bigger slice) of Play Store profits?

But Sam, this would be even more reason for Google to make sure Motorola is "competitive" it seems to be a cold war forming. Google fears Samsung gets too big and wants more money, buys moto to level the playing field. Samsung fears the acquisition as a threat to the open competition amongst oems, and leverages a new operating system against them. It's like the US and Russia fighting over the partition of Germany. What they both don't realize was how important the other was in winning the war. Let's be honest, Android wouldn't be anywhere near where it is without the success of the galaxy lines. I mean they are single handily nearly matching iPhone sales at this point.

That's why I don't buy that Google is taking a hands off approach to Motorola. Yes the patents were important, but let's play out your scenario of Google letting moto go belly up. Imagine the leverage Samsung would have at that point? They could do whatever they want.

Fortunately I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

 

[SamuriHL]

I don't disagree. I'm just telling you what each side is thinking. There's a growing distrust going on between them and that's never good when you're trying to win a bigger war against larger rivals. But that's what we have....infighting when they should be working closer together. And I'll tell you right now...I'm going to flat out state this clearly. ANYONE who thinks that Moto can compete with Samsung, even with Google's full backing, is absolutely delusional. I don't care what kind of "God phone" they create. It's still not going to match the volume of sales that Samsung *consistently* brings to the table. Which is around 10 million S4 sales......*IN THE FIRST MONTH OF IT GOING ON SALE*. That last part should really give you pause as to what we're talking about here. Moto is *YEARS* away from being able to do something like that...if ever. So all the posturing on both sides is wasted. They truly need each other equally.

 

[SamuriHL]

As for Google going hands on....that would be considered the nuclear option in Samsung's eyes. If they see preferential treatment...if they so much as PERCEIVE it, they'll pull way back on Android and look for an exit strategy. And they ARE serious about that. This is why Google is treading lightly. It's not about reality here. It's all perception and what each company perceives the other to be doing and what their long term strategy is. They really need to get over it and play nice.