Galaxy Fold woes..

[Mike Dee]

I apologize if I didn't make clear that I was applauding you for your participation but really calling those less thoughtful and more irresponsible media types that have detracted from meaningful conversation to protect their own at the expense of those who albeit consume their content. I am also calling out, definitely not you, aborgate or abandon critical thinking taking the easy route by believing and repeating what they are told to think by the media, again not making reference to you.

My apologies....I read the wrong emphasis on the word "You" starting out in the next to last paragraph

 

[Mike Dee]

I took it as he is calling out the media (see my post below yours)....not necessarily anyone on the forum.

Thanks for helping to clear that up.

 

[jcp007]

My apologies....I read the wrong emphasis on the word "You" starting out in the next to last paragraph

No problem. I will try to be more clear going forward.

 

[jcp007]

That's a lot of eloquent writing there. Anyways, with Mr. Mobile's device showing a defect, out of the 5 units reported to have issue, 3 out of 5 appears to be normal "usage." Over 50% so not exclusively user error. That is a documented fact.

The two that were user errors, Marques being one of them, is an unfortunate misunderstanding and mistake but show a real weakness in the design of the screen which ifixit had so eloquently commented... "What's curious is how it looks so similar to the pre-installed screen protectors that ship with Galaxy S10 phones. Why not extend this layer under the bezels to hide it from peel-happy folks like us?"

Anyways, the 5 (maybe there was a 6th I forget) that reported issues... they were just reported what happened. The firestorm happened because they all happened within days of getting and reporting that they got units. How the chips fall afterwards is as much Samsungs blame due to the weak design (and yes, having a weak outer layer not going edge to edge and maybe hidden under the bezel which can easily be done because we now find it's just a plastic bezel lightly glued at the edges.

Mr Mobiles defect/issue popped up 9 days after receiving his unit. No wonder Samsung recalled all their press units because if allowed to play with a few days longer it very well looked like we could have been on track for 100% failure on these things.

I can understand with the idea of let Samsung put out there product as-is and let the consumer judge, but from this small sampling and from only 5 peoples reporting of their experience within only days of receiving there units, even if a couple were stupid mistakes (which really could be a representation of what average users may do when in hand), you really don't see they really helped Samsung out more then hurt them because if this kind of mess was being reported by consumers on social media, it would be just like the firestorm that the CONSUMERS created with the Note 7 fiasco and less controllable than this issue.

Just an observation and my opinion only. In reference to "normal" usage, this might apply to a sealed glass slab with a IP68 rating that has been developed over a dozen years.

The Fold is not a normal device. It appears to include a warning in the owners manual not to peel the screen. It is no secret that there is no particle/liquid intrusion protection.

That said. Those incidents are the fault of the user whether unwittingly or not. If the owners manual warning had been read and heeded, the less likely it would have happened. If more care had been taken as it relates to clothing and any surface upon which the device rested, particle intrusion might have been mitigated. This by no means lets Samsung off the hook for poorly executed design but, the circumstances that led to devices being are all under control of the user who must assume accountability for their actions.

 

[Golfdriver97]

My other opinion is that the consumer has the right to expect a new or updated product to be as flawless as possible and reasonable given technology and price. However, they are not entitled to a perfect product and therefore not necessarily justified in driving an agenda that hurts a company to the point of abandoning a technology or product.

This post just makes me think of some posts where people complain about usually miniscule and cosmetic things like The button coloring doesn't match the body, or whatever, and process a return. I'm always like, if it doesn't impede the function of the device, why do that?

 

[donm527]

when I say normal usage, I mean they are going to use their press release units as they normally would with any other phone they use on a daily basis. They are not going to do drop tests, or purposely try to to see what they can break. They'll carry it with them and stuff it in their pockets, jackets, purses, bags or maybe even try to see if they can back pocket it which some consumers may do. They may take it to the beach with them and try to read an ebook while laying on a towel in the sand. They make take it to dinner like Five Guys and web browse with greasy fingers while eating a burger. They may take it to the slopes with them while skiing or may take it go bike riding and stick it in their cargo pockets...

Normal usage. normal conditions. Tasks that people do and places people will take their phones like they do now. Even unique phones should be able to handle normal daily activities like these. And these will be the type of normal usage that consumers will be doing.

Just an observation and my opinion only. In reference to "normal" usage, this might apply to a sealed glass slab with a IP68 rating that has been developed over a dozen years.

The Fold is not a normal device. It appears to include a warning in the owners manual not to peel the screen. It is no secret that there is no particle/liquid intrusion protection.

That said. Those incidents are the fault of the user whether unwittingly or not. If the owners manual warning had been read and heeded, the less likely it would have happened. If more care had been taken as it relates to clothing and any surface upon which the device rested, particle intrusion might have been mitigated. This by no means lets Samsung off the hook for poorly executed design but, the circumstances that led to devices being are all under control of the user who must assume accountability for their actions.

 

[clerk]

Well said. I do expect my 2k fold to withstand normal usage.

 

[jcp007]

when I say normal usage, I mean they are going to use their press release units as they normally would with any other phone they use on a daily basis. They are not going to do drop tests, or purposely try to to see what they can break. They'll carry it with them and stuff it in their pockets, jackets, purses, bags or maybe even try to see if they can back pocket it which some consumers may do. They may take it to the beach with them and try to read an ebook while laying on a towel in the sand. They make take it to dinner like Five Guys and web browse with greasy fingers while eating a burger. They may take it to the slopes with them while skiing or may take it go bike riding and stick it in their cargo pockets...

Normal usage. normal conditions. Tasks that people do and places people will take their phones like they do now. Even unique phones should be able to handle normal daily activities like these. And these will be the type of normal usage that consumers will be doing.

That's all good.

My point is that the delicate nature of the device that we can all agree should be able to stand up to normal use. However, in the case of the Fold, it is not a sealed glass slab with an IP rating. It has moving parts, no particle/liquid intrusion protection and costs $2k. Those factors alone should necessitate greater care.

Should be able and are able are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Expectations versus reality. The reality is that the design flaws are what they are. If users refuse to acknowledge this reality and want to act out of habit, put this device on a surface where particulate material could damage the device and not be more aware of the need to cautious, then accountability rests solely with them. As I stated earlier, customer have a right to expect as flawless a device as possible given technology and price for a new product or an updated one. However, they are not entitled to a perfect product. They can make whatever purchase decisions that result.

My post is only my opinion and not any judgment of your POV.

 

[tadpoles]

This all makes me think of what kind of usage would lead to a Fold that had no issues or damage after 60 days. Do I need to keep it in a dust-free environment? Should it not be taken outside? Must it go in a special case that is used for transporting because exposure to the environment will invariably lead to damage?

To me those are simply too restrictive for a phone in 2019 but that's just my opinion. I can think back to many devices that didn't have IP ratings that were not damaged by what I think most people would consider normal use.

It sounds, to me, like there should be a disclaimer label on the device that indicates the device is fragile and needs to be treated as such, or something along those lines.

Perhaps that's all Samsung has time to do at this point. Make a hugely-visible disclaimer about the device's fragility. I think a design change is needed but I'm not sure how likely that is at this point.

 

[ThrottleJohnny]

Unless they discovered a design oversight that can be easily fix by extending the outer layer to both ends of the screen, sealing the entire screen.

 

[jcp007]

This all makes me think of what kind of usage would lead to a Fold that had no issues or damage after 60 days. Do I need to keep it in a dust-free environment? Should it not be taken outside? Must it go in a special case that is used for transporting because exposure to the environment will invariably lead to damage?

To me those are simply too restrictive for a phone in 2019 but that's just my opinion. I can think back to many devices that didn't have IP ratings that were not damaged by what I think most people would consider normal use.

It sounds, to me, like there should be a disclaimer label on the device that indicates the device is fragile and needs to be treated as such, or something along those lines.

Perhaps that's all Samsung has time to do at this point. Make a hugely-visible disclaimer about the device's fragility. I think a design change is needed but I'm not sure how likely that is at this point.

The burden to care for the device is up to you in terms of how much you want to avoid issues. If it's too burdensome, then wait for the next generation or don't buy it.

Devices from back in day weren't as powerful and lacked foldable screens but we did have to worry about liquid intrusion. Samsung should have taken the safe route and assumed that users are too lazy or not smart enough to read warnings in the owners manual.

Also that users are not smart enough to realize that design flaws and high prices should also be a clue to take more care to not place the device on a dirty table or counter. Be careful with pocket contents.

Extraordinary means won't be necessary to care for the device. Trips to the beach are out of the question. Be careful and use your common sense and judgment. There won't be any significant changes in the short term. Look for major changes in the next generation. If you still have concerns, pass until you feel comfortable buying it.

 

[donm527]

Not mentioned with the 4 or 5 here (including Mr Mobiles unit before he had to return the unit) that made the news but a report from someone in Switerland that had a dimple show on his phone and suspects debris got under the screen. Press units showing these type of issues in... within a 10 day period?? Points to a very very real design flaw.

Heck, no way I could own one living in Florida if your a beach person... a little sand blowing around in the air and you're done.

https://twitter.com/Lorenz_Keller/status/1120062963463991296

 

[clerk]

More bad pr for Samsung. Yikes.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/25/18516875/ifixit-takedown-samsung-galaxy-fold-teardown

 

[Almeuit]

More bad pr for Samsung. Yikes.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/25/18516875/ifixit-takedown-samsung-galaxy-fold-teardown

Yeah saw this from 9to5Google -- https://9to5google.com/2019/04/25/ifixit-galaxy-fold-teardown-removed/.

To achieve the fold, the thin bezel that surrounds (and protects) the screen leaves a gap where the two halves meet. You don’t notice it until you notice it … And then you can’t help but “test ingress.” Don’t try this at home.

This 7 mm gap doesn’t seem like a huge deal, but it leaves the display exposed—so should something accidentally enter, it’s curtains for the screen.

 

[Mike Dee]

Not mentioned with the 4 or 5 here (including Mr Mobiles unit before he had to return the unit) that made the news but a report from someone in Switerland that had a dimple show on his phone and suspects debris got under the screen. Press units showing these type of issues in... within a 10 day period?? Points to a very very real design flaw.

Heck, no way I could own one living in Florida if your a beach person... a little sand blowing around in the air and you're done.

https://twitter.com/Lorenz_Keller/status/1120062963463991296

This basically means that users of this device may need a second phone in the event you need to use one where this device can't survive.

 

[clerk]

I don’t know. A 7mm gap in a phone seems like a huge deal to me if that gap allows dirt, dust and other debris to collect inside the phone. Really hard to understand how presumably hundreds of engineers at Samsung thought otherwise. Don’t get me wrong, I still am impressed by the tech but that’s crazy. They absolutely have to seal that gap before I will Buy one.

 

[Mike Dee]

I don’t know. A 7mm gap in a phone seems like a huge deal to me if that gap allows dirt, dust and other debris to collect inside the phone. Really hard to understand how presumably hundreds of engineers at Samsung thought otherwise. Don’t get me wrong, I still am impressed by the tech but that’s crazy. They absolutely have to seal that gap before I will Buy one.

It is a huge deal even with a small gap. The norm for testing products in my line of work it too expose then to conditions that exceed expectations or ratings so you can determine their failure modes and how to address them. While I know it can't be true, it's as if this device wasn't tested for anything beyond folding.

 

[jcthorne#AC]

I do not think the problem is insurmountable at all. Just looking at the ifixit teardown, one possible solution presents itself. Replace the snap in bezel with one made of 2 or 3 materials that covers the gap. Hard around the edges, softer where it bends, with an encapsulated foam on the rear at the hinge point to keep crud out of the gap. Making a new bezel and snapping them in could be done in a few weeks.

 

[donm527]

DroidLife guys talk about the Fold for first 20 minutes and make a lot of good points and I think I agree with them... No cheap fixes.

Redesign properly. Test properly and take your time Samsung since you pulled the release date already and release around Note10 time. Stop trying to release before Huawei and concentrate on a good product. Or scrap it and work on Fold2.

Foam and thicker stick-on bezels ain't gonna cut it. I doubt the foam will last 200,000 openings and keep debris from getting in along the length of both sides of the spine of that hinge. Also reviewers said a lot of play in the hinges and felt too fragile.

https://youtu.be/bSDAKu4pOkA

I do not think the problem is insurmountable at all. Just looking at the ifixit teardown, one possible solution presents itself. Replace the snap in bezel with one made of 2 or 3 materials that covers the gap. Hard around the edges, softer where it bends, with an encapsulated foam on the rear at the hinge point to keep crud out of the gap. Making a new bezel and snapping them in could be done in a few weeks.

 

[o4liberty]

Samsung has their work cut out for them to get this device to sell after this failed pre-launch. They have already said they want all the units returned and will not set a new launch date until a fix is in the works which means all existing units will have to be refitted with the new fix. It a shame this happened hopefully the new Razr doesn't have these issues unless they used a Samsung screen.