Google Pixel 3 / 3 XL 2018

[Itsa_Me_Mario]

When I read the Google AI Blog and they reference some of the work that they are doing with Google's hardware, to me this what the Pixel is for first. The manifestation of AI driven consumer devices.

The use of Federated Learning is throughout the device for example. As a point of reference G-board is the example they use. That type of work is incredibly complex, however 99% of the population is unaware of it or how it's improving their experience on an ongoing basis.

From Google's blog, they say the Pixel is built to "provide our take on the best Google experience". Now that will vary from person to person for sure, but I think that's key "the best Google experience"

Rick Osterloh did an interview earlier this year (one of the better ones I've read and I'll post the link if anyone has an interest in ready the full piece) and from that article:

'The hope was that with this phone, at last, Google could give its software the physical form it needed. “We have a terrific ecosystem position with Android, but I think no one was really delivering the full Google experience,” Osterloh says.'

I think the AI being at the center is what gets overlooked with the Pixel phones. It's really an important part of the UX. From that same article:

"It’s getting harder and harder to make fundamental leaps in power and capability. Google’s advantage, he says, is in its algorithms and neural networks. Osterloh’s job is to push Google’s AI capabilities more deeply into people’s lives.

For the new hardware team, the task was clear: Find more ways to get Google Assistant in front of people and build a sustainable business around it."

https://www.wired.com/story/one-mans-quest-to-make-googles-gadgets-great/

It's a good read, imo.

boom

 

[Itsa_Me_Mario]

Why can't Google achieve both high end specs along with all the optimisation they want to do? Why does that seem mutually exclusive to Google?

What device, aside from the Pixels and iPhones, are balancing both at the high end of both areas? I'm unaware of ANY that even attempt to.

 

[Itsa_Me_Mario]

Geez Google's philosophy is less for more. Google could easily bump the battery up to 4000 mah and offer 2 additional gigs of ram. Google has balls if they stand their with a serious face selling another "flagship" device with a substandard display.

They could bump the battery, but that'd mean a thicker device, which means different dimensions, which introduces different engineering challenges. They could add the RAM, which is much easier from an engineering standpoint - but then we'd need something to counter the optimization and opportunity cost ideas presented earlier.

 

[anon(10092459)]

I mean the only argument I'm hearing for not including 6gb ram is because 'it can get by with 4gb'.

Here's my RAM usage in the last 24 hours .. I'm yet to see anyone produce any evidence of needing more RAM.

 

[anon(661246)]

They could bump the battery, but that'd mean a thicker device, which means different dimensions, which introduces different engineering challenges. They could add the RAM, which is much easier from an engineering standpoint - but then we'd need something to counter the optimization and opportunity cost ideas presented earlier.

How much thicker do you think though? I have the Huawei p20 pro and they are pretty similar. What kind of optimization would Google need to do with extra ram? Doesn't it just allow more apps to stay open ?

 

[anon(661246)]

Here's my RAM usage in the last 24 hours .. I'm yet to see anyone produce any evidence of needing more RAM.

Yeah but if you had more ram your usage would be higher. Doesn't Android close apps at a certain threshold

 

[Itsa_Me_Mario]

How much thicker do you think though? I have the Huawei p20 pro and they are pretty similar. What kind of optimization would Google need to do with extra ram? Doesn't it just allow more apps to stay open ?

An earlier point was that Huawei, one of the best phone OEM's in the world, has MUCH more experience designing hardware than Google does. Google's a brand newbie, not much more experienced than Essential. They just bought some of HTC's engineers, which should influence the Pixel 4 and beyond ... but for the 3, they're literally on their 3rd phone. Huawei knows WAY more about fitting cool things into tiny spaces than Google does, on this front.

For the RAM Optimization vs Opportunity cost argument, it's not that they'd have to software optimize to more RAM - it's a matter of optimization of risk vs reward, external to the device - is the cost of the component going to gain them enough performance to justify it? Is that cost enough to justify it over any other gains that could be found by spending that same amount of money on other areas? I don't know the answers to those questions, but those are the types of questions that need to be asked.

 

[anon(10092459)]

Yeah but if you had more ram your usage would be higher. Doesn't Android close apps at a certain threshold

Well here's my RAM from July 2nd with more apps running and no. Not from my understand of Android's RAM management.

 

[onthecouchagain]

I'm confident Google can achieve great hardware while still upholding their standards in software. They just don't seem to want to.

They could do both. Imagine what that might mean for consumers? Imagine what that could mean for sales? They want more users going through Google's AI and search? They could sell more handsets; isn't that the whole idea, to get more eyes on Google software?

Hardware could help here very much. Google has yet to design a wide-appealing eye-catching device, for example. Or what if the average user who doesn't know much about the Pixel camera is deciding between two phones? The one with a single camera may be less appealing than the other with dual-cameras. Etc. They may not know better.

 

[anon(10092459)]

They could do both. Imagine what that might mean for consumers? Imagine what that could mean for sales? They want more users going through Google's AI and search? They could sell more handsets; isn't that the whole idea, to get more eyes on Google software?

I think it's a fair point. If you're Google back in 2016, I think you're cautious about entering the hardware space and rightfully so, too. There's a lot of risk to hardware that's very different to what they're used to. So they tread lightly, right? Every piece of hardware out is a potential problem.

Software, for them, is easy to fix and they're culture is to "Ship and iterate". That's difficult to do with hardware. I think they wan't to "hurry up and make mistakes" as fast as they can while their numbers are still small. It's one thing to **** off 4 million and all together different when it's 40 million. They have a lot of work in front of them, of that I have no doubt.

 

[anon(10092459)]

@onthecouchagain Put it to you this way ... They didn't spend all that money on the HTC engineers and their intellectual capital for nothing. They recognized they need the help in the hardware space. It's traditionally been outside of the scope of work... side project at best.

Sundar and Rick have both said 5 years, at minimum, before they expect to see something significant, meaning a line item, from hardware. 2 more years and we'll see where they are standing, I guess.

 

[Itsa_Me_Mario]

Hey this was fun folks, thanks for the discussion.

 

[Mike Dee]

That's what I'm struggling to understand as well. Why can't Google achieve both high end specs along with all the optimisation they want to do? Why does that seem mutually exclusive to Google? I mean the only argument I'm hearing for not including 6gb ram is because 'it can get by with 4gb'. Well it could also get by with 3gb ram, so should Google cut the amount of ram to 3gb?

There's a real-world benefit to having more ram, one that everyone would benefit from whether they know how ram works or not.

Hearing it'll only have 4gb ram is troubling to me. My current Pixel 2 XL has 4gb ram and I get lot of app reloads and delays multi-tasking, just as MKBHD posted in his video. No doubt 6gb ram is more beneficial. And being on Android P, I don't feel this is any more optimised or any faster than Android Oreo was.

I don't think it's a question of it can get by with 4GB....4GB is more than adequate.
Dont get me wrong. If they went to 6GB I wouldn't complain but I'm fine with 4GB.

What I find interesting is that few posts back when the debate was about glass backs and wireless charging your advice to two different posters was:


"Anyway, no point arguing this issue. Google have decided to go with glass and will be putting in wireless charging on the Pixel 3. If you aren't happy with that, you don't have to get the phone. Plenty of other phones which suit your needs."

"There's no point going back and forth about this - the Pixel 3 XL has a glass back. Just have to accept it and move on”

 

[I Can Be Your Hero]

@onthecouchagain Put it to you this way ... They didn't spend all that money on the HTC engineers and their intellectual capital for nothing. They recognized they need the help in the hardware space. It's traditionally been outside of the scope of work... side project at best.

Sundar and Rick have both said 5 years, at minimum, before they expect to see something significant, meaning a line item, from hardware. 2 more years and we'll see where they are standing, I guess.

Well I feel they need a lot of work because on hardware, Google haven't been doing very well imo. Compared to other flagships, it's quite a bit behind 3 years running now. They seem to go two steps forward, one step back with every generation. Omission of 6gb ram just comes off as cheap and cost cutting to me. There's no benefit to the consumer going with 4gb ram instead of 6gb.

 

[Itsa_Me_Mario]

There's no benefit to the consumer going with 4gb ram instead of 6gb.

Kinda frustrating because this keeps getting addressed by several people and you keep repeating the same thing over and again as if you haven't read a single post in this 13 page long thread.

 

[I Can Be Your Hero]

Kinda frustrating because this keeps getting addressed by several people and you keep repeating the same thing over and again as if you haven't read a single post in this 13 page long thread.

No one has explained the benefit of going with 4gb ram over 6gb ram. There's no benefit to the consumer, only to Google in cost cutting.

 

[Itsa_Me_Mario]

No one has explained the benefit of going with 4gb ram over 6gb ram. There's no benefit to the consumer, only to Google in cost cutting.

The benefit to the consumer is covered by the opportunity cost portion of it - money not wasted on unnecessary upgrades - that can be better invested in putting more time, aka money, into improving other features that provide better bang for the bunk to the user.

 

[osubeavs728]

That's what I'm struggling to understand as well. Why can't Google achieve both high end specs along with all the optimisation they want to do? Why does that seem mutually exclusive to Google? I mean the only argument I'm hearing for not including 6gb ram is because 'it can get by with 4gb'. Well it could also get by with 3gb ram, so should Google cut the amount of ram to 3gb?

There's a real-world benefit to having more ram, one that everyone would benefit from whether they know how ram works or not.

Hearing it'll only have 4gb ram is troubling to me. My current Pixel 2 XL has 4gb ram and I get lot of app reloads and delays multi-tasking, just as MKBHD posted in his video. No doubt 6gb ram is more beneficial. And being on Android P, I don't feel this is any more optimised or any faster than Android Oreo was.

It's ok to admit that you don't understand how P&L and variable costs work.

 

[Larzuk]

4GB, 6GB, 36GB who cares? When my phone starts running slower due to this, Then I will raise issue to it and consider alternative phone's. I don't foresee that being the case this time around as well so it's all irrelevant at this point.

Hell will freeze over before I ever buy an iPhone, Though I've always had the latest model of Samsung's lineup of phones, Both S and Note series. That is until the Pixel lineup came out. Samsung and other phones are just slow. The bloatware, The ridiculous timelines on OS updates.

Once the Pixel line came out, A fellow user's comments come to mind and made complete sense. "I found my iPhone". The fluidity of the OS is nothing short of amazing, What they accomplish with 1 camera lense, Having the latest and greatest with the OS updates instantly is unrivaled. I have no doubt the line will continue to refine and I have no doubt once the phone comes out people are going to be at a loss for words when Google continues to push out the best camera shots with 1 lense when others are pushing out 2, 3, what's next 4? Like come on.

Yes Google leaves some to be desired with design, notch depth, etc, Though at least for myself I'm not buying and sold on Pixel phones because of design alone.

 

[anon(10092459)]

Omission of 6gb ram just comes off as cheap and cost cutting to me.

Listen, I do appreciate you having a different take, but you really need to build a facts based case to get traction with this. 6GB is just an arbitrary number.. Why not 8GB or even more? At what point does it make sense that it's a waste and inefficient to you?

Do you know that the 3G of RAM in the iPhone X is the MOST RAM they've ever put into an iPhone? First time ever to use 3G. Now do you think that any of their phones are just cost cutting with no benefit to the consumer because of that? Surely not...