hotspot teather..pay or not pay??

[thebignewt]

Anything to support that opinion?

I agree with mod Paul. Violate the contract, you're gone. Widget on phone designed for tethering. "you tethering boy?" "Well not really, I'm not sure". (Bye boy) But like I said they don't care about the diddly stuff. I remember on a Blackberry forum that Vzn were sending tether people letters or calling them saying "you use too much data all of sudden, knock it off or you're gone unless you pay for it". This was on 2G. They're got bigger fish to fry.

 

[bworley50]

I agree with mod Paul. Violate the contract, you're gone. Widget on phone designed for tethering. "you tethering boy?" "Well not really, I'm not sure". (Bye boy) But like I said they don't care about the diddly stuff. I remember on a Blackberry forum that Vzn were sending tether people letters or calling them saying "you use too much data all of sudden, knock it off or you're gone unless you pay for it". This was on 2G. They're got bigger fish to fry.

I didn't think so. I also only use it sparingly.

 

[GNex Girl]

However you like to explain it, interpret it, etc.... Bottom line... If you tether for free, any carrier has the option at any time to raise question about excessive data usage. So at any point in time if you tether and use what they consider above normal data usage they can red flag your account and take action.

Next question.. What is considered excessive or above normal data usage? This can be determined by the carrier however they choose. After all your doing something that isn't intended to be done for F R E E.

We as customers can try to fight it and explain our actions but in the end the carrier has the final say.... Some may win an argument with their carrier over this but the majority of the time your gonna be on the losing end.

I personally tether for free only on occasion, when I need it in a pinch when my internet goes down or if I need to be on the road and use my laptop in areas where I can't get wireless access. It is not something I use in place of my regular internet and something I try not to abuse.

This is just how I personally look at it. I only stated this to those who maybe in question of things. I will not entertain Q & A on my views on this, I will let you all have a CONSTRUCTIVE discussion about that.

Two words - adhesion contract. You can have any personal opinion on this you want, but what matters is the statutes and the case law that govern the adhesion contract, which by the way vary from state to state. So what may be the case in one state may not be the case in another state. Thus, the first thing people who need to educate themselves about the law should do is understand that contract law is not an area of the law pre-empted by the Feds. Hence, you can't make blanket statements about what will happen in a contract dispute unless you specify what state you are referring to.

Also, you really should educate yourself about adhesion contracts before you develop an opinion about the law as it pertains to an adhesion contract. An adhesion contract is treated very differently by courts than a contract where each side had the ability to negotiate the terms of the contract. There is a large body of law in every state that has been developed over the years on these types of contracts. But each state is different, so again, you have to specify which state you are referring to or else what you say is meaningless.

 

[GNex Girl]

I agree with mod Paul.

Paul has not specified which state's contract laws he is referring to so how can you agree with him when you don't even know what state he is referring to? You do realize that contract law is different from state to state, right?

Also, Paul's post doesn't even acknowledge that these are adhesion contracts. You do realize what an adhesion contract is and how the law treats those contracts different from contracts where both parties have the ability to negotiate the terms of the contract, right?

 

[bworley50]

Two words - adhesion contract. You can have any personal opinion on this you want, but what matters is the statutes and the case law that govern the adhesion contract, which by the way vary from state to state. So what may be the case in one state may not be the case in another state. Thus, the first thing people who need to educate themselves about the law should do is understand that contract law is not an area of the law pre-empted by the Feds. Hence, you can't make blanket statements about what will happen in a contract dispute unless you specify what state you are referring to.

Also, you really should educate yourself about adhesion contracts before you develop an opinion about the law as it pertains to an adhesion contract. An adhesion contract is treated very differently by courts than a contract where each side had the ability to negotiate the terms of the contract. There is a large body of law in every state that has been developed over the years on these types of contracts. But each state is different, so again, you have to specify which state you are referring to or else what you say is meaningless.

I was mainly referring to the U.C.C., but you're correct, they do vary by state. There is no doubt it is an adhesion contract.

 

[bworley50]

However you like to explain it, interpret it, etc.... Bottom line... If you tether for free, any carrier has the option at any time to raise question about excessive data usage. So at any point in time if you tether and use what they consider above normal data usage they can red flag your account and take action.

Next question.. What is considered excessive or above normal data usage? This can be determined by the carrier however they choose. After all your doing something that isn't intended to be done for F R E E.

We as customers can try to fight it and explain our actions but in the end the carrier has the final say.... Some may win an argument with their carrier over this but the majority of the time your gonna be on the losing end.

I personally tether for free only on occasion, when I need it in a pinch when my internet goes down or if I need to be on the road and use my laptop in areas where I can't get wireless access. It is not something I use in place of my regular internet and something I try not to abuse.

This is just how I personally look at it. I only stated this to those who maybe in question of things. I will not entertain Q & A on my views on this, I will let you all have a CONSTRUCTIVE discussion about that.

Not entirely true about carriers winning. Carriers used to charge a flat ETF, now it decreases each month. This is because of lawsuits from that being an unfair business practice.

 

[GNex Girl]

Not entirely true about carriers winning. Carriers used to charge a flat ETF, now it decreases each month. This is because of lawsuits from that being an unfair business practice.

And the carriers routinely try to argue preemption as a defense to state laws and have lost on that front, too except I believe where a state tries to regulate their rates or entry into the market since they have 47 USC 332(c)(3)(A) on their side on that one.

However, 47 USC 332(c)(3)(A) is a double-edge sword since it allows the states to regulate the other terms of the contract.

 

[thebignewt]

Adhering to terms of a contract applies to adhesion contracts as well as negotiated contracts. Once it's signed it's the deal. True, there's no wiggle room in a Verizon contract, and true, they may vary state to state (but they probably don't, at least not much), and true, disputes go before state courts not the Feds. But the things in this thread never go to court. Verizon can't spend lawyer rates messing with our $80 contracts and they know we don't have lawyer money to fight them either. So they do what they do, we can gripe at CS, and it gets handled at that level, just like people who went $300 over their text message limit back in the day (my kid did that, and he paid too). Those people are now protected by warnings, that was the Feds doing. And I doubt it stemmed from some local yokel hiring a lawyer to sue Verizon.

 

[bworley50]

Adhering to terms of a contract applies to adhesion contracts as well as negotiated contracts. Once it's signed it's the deal. True, there's no wiggle room in a Verizon contract, and true, they may vary state to state (but they probably don't, at least not much), and true, disputes go before state courts not the Feds. But the things in this thread never go to court. Verizon can't spend lawyer rates messing with our $80 contracts and they know we don't have lawyer money to fight them either. So they do what they do, we can gripe at CS, and it gets handled at that level, just like people who went $300 over their text message limit back in the day (my kid did that, and he paid too). Those people are now protected by warnings, that was the Feds doing. And I doubt it stemmed from some local yokel hiring a lawyer to sue Verizon.

That is why I tether without paying additional money. Get it?

 

[Paul627g]

Much better discussion going on here gang

Glad my input help set a better tone for this thread.

Enjoy.

 

[bworley50]

Much better discussion going on here gang

Glad my input help set a better tone for this thread.

Enjoy.

It wasn't you.

 

[Paul627g]

It wasn't you.

Okay.. No credit taken then. I know when I'm not wanted... :'(

LOL..

 

[thebignewt]

That is why I tether without paying additional money. Get it?

Sure, and I personally don't think it's immoral or unethical to tether without paying their (outrageous) fee UNLESS it's your only internet connection source and you're using gobs of data for your laptop/iPad. But if you are doing that it's possible Big Red will nab you and shut 'er down unless you pay up. And no person in that situation is gonna try "arbitration" (a term you used earler) which is another term for "beg for leniency with CS". There's no arbitration hearings in court for this crap lol.

 

[ScooberJake]

Also, you really should educate yourself about adhesion contracts before you develop an opinion about the law as it pertains to an adhesion contract.

So I have to become a legal expert before I can decide how to use my phone? This thread just keeps getting more ridiculous. I haven't read my contract all the way through, so I don't know exactly what it says. And even if I did I probably wouldn't understand it.

My impression is that Verizon does not allow unlimited tethering of laptop and PC devices through a phone data plan. (If I am incorrect and that is not Verizon's policy, then obviously what follows is pretty worthless. Sorry, I couldn't bring myself to wade through all of the name calling in this thread.) The reason for doing this is both simple and logical (though perhaps becoming outdated): because laptops and PCs are likely to use far more data than a smartphone. The unlimited smartphone data plan was available at a time when the connection speeds of the devices provided an inherent upper limit to the "unlimited" data option. This limitation is being removed as newer devices are connecting at higher and higher speeds, so the unlimited data plan is no longer available. It is only be Verizon's good graces that many of us are grandfathered in with our unlimited plans. They are under no obligation to do so. Therefore, I will try to enjoy this perk for long-time Verizon customers without abusing it.

Can Verizon tell me what to do with my data plan? Of course they can. I am basically renting bandwidth on their network, and as a private entity they have every right to regulate that however they want. If you rent a house, the owner has every right to specify that no pets are allowed. If you don't like Verizon's terms, then don't agree to the contract. Either choose a new provider (whose terms you agree with) or go create your own multi-billion dollar mobile network.

Now of course the world is not black and white. I occasionally tether to my phone when traveling to help me out of a jam. Although it always makes me a little nervous to do it, I feel ok about it knowing that I am at least obeying the spirit of the law. (Similar to speeding, I generally stick to the limit, but I occasionally go over when I believe I can do so without endangering other motorists.) I will not rack up massive amounts of data.

I think the word used earlier is perfectly correct: integrity. If you agree to certain terms of usage and then intentionally, blatantly, and excessively act contrary to those terms, I think that is the very definition of a lack of integrity.

 

[dcastillo]

I think the word used earlier is perfectly correct: integrity. If you agree to certain terms of usage and then intentionally, blatantly, and excessively act contrary to those terms, I think that is the very definition of a lack of integrity.

I think this comment is needs "excessively" removed... There is no grey area... your either following them or your not... Kind of like speeding, you are or youre not... (my personal opinion)

-Danny

 

[bworley50]

So I have to become a legal expert before I can decide how to use my phone? This thread just keeps getting more ridiculous. I haven't read my contract all the way through, so I don't know exactly what it says. And even if I did I probably wouldn't understand it.

My impression is that Verizon does not allow unlimited tethering of laptop and PC devices through a phone data plan. (If I am incorrect and that is not Verizon's policy, then obviously what follows is pretty worthless. Sorry, I couldn't bring myself to wade through all of the name calling in this thread.) The reason for doing this is both simple and logical (though perhaps becoming outdated): because laptops and PCs are likely to use far more data than a smartphone. The unlimited smartphone data plan was available at a time when the connection speeds of the devices provided an inherent upper limit to the "unlimited" data option. This limitation is being removed as newer devices are connecting at higher and higher speeds, so the unlimited data plan is no longer available. It is only be Verizon's good graces that many of us are grandfathered in with our unlimited plans. They are under no obligation to do so. Therefore, I will try to enjoy this perk for long-time Verizon customers without abusing it.

Can Verizon tell me what to do with my data plan? Of course they can. I am basically renting bandwidth on their network, and as a private entity they have every right to regulate that however they want. If you rent a house, the owner has every right to specify that no pets are allowed. If you don't like Verizon's terms, then don't agree to the contract. Either choose a new provider (whose terms you agree with) or go create your own multi-billion dollar mobile network.

Now of course the world is not black and white. I occasionally tether to my phone when traveling to help me out of a jam. Although it always makes me a little nervous to do it, I feel ok about it knowing that I am at least obeying the spirit of the law. (Similar to speeding, I generally stick to the limit, but I occasionally go over when I believe I can do so without endangering other motorists.) I will not rack up massive amounts of data.

I think the word used earlier is perfectly correct: integrity. If you agree to certain terms of usage and then intentionally, blatantly, and excessively act contrary to those terms, I think that is the very definition of a lack of integrity.

I agree with everything you said. The problem is that the contract we have with VZ says they can change your contract to whatever terms they want in the middle of the contract. Those kinds of contracts are common in the wireless industry.

 

[JustinTiburon#AC]

Who cares anymore..? Seriously people just come on here to start flame wars about that stuff that doesn't even effect them. Do you honestly lose sleep over knowing that people tether without paying?

 

[dcastillo]

Who cares anymore..? Seriously people just come on here to start flame wars about that stuff that doesn't even effect them. Do you honestly lose sleep over knowing that people tether without paying?

Im guessing most of us dont really care what others do... we are not responsible for anyone but ourselves...

I think we are just trying to keep our minds of the lack of OTA's we are receiving

As long as it stays nice and clean... its all fun... lets just not attack each other or else they may close the thread and we will have to start over from scratch

 

[JustinTiburon#AC]

Im guessing most of us dont really care what others do... we are not responsible for anyone but ourselves...

I think we are just trying to keep our minds of the lack of OTA's we are receiving

As long as it stays nice and clean... its all fun... lets just not attack each other or else they may close the thread and we will have to start over from scratch

Yeah, we already got a good foundation set up already. Would suck to find someone else to complain about.

 

[samkatz]

Ok. I'm not a wireless expert in any sense. So i go to Verizon buy Phone and read the instructions.I'm allowed to download any app and press any buttons. I am not rooting.
So if there's a menu item for wireless Hotspot,i follow the directions and use it, how is that stealing?

If i have a cable TV subscription and one day HBO starts showing up even though i didn't add it am i stealing if i watch it? No. Furthermore if they called me up and said hey we're Billing you for watching Boardwalk Empire last month I'd tell them to stick it.