HTC One (M8) camera discussion

[cdaq]

The problem again with this camera isn't the resolution unless you are looking to crop (zoom) or print. The biggest challenge is that it is calibrated to pick up fine details within a limited dynamic range meaning that if there are intense brights and darks in the scene it won't do well across the spectrum. For many common shots the camera is great, for others HDR (I'd use third party app) works best.

Here is a short write-up that explains this using a histogram and some samples to illustrate it: Productastic | Tech, Toys and other fun stuff by Heath Cajandig

R

Very interesting but I'm not sure I can agree with your assessment about the cameras dynamic range.
"The problem stems from the fact that while Ultrapixel camera is fantastic at picking up subtle differences within a range of lighting, it is very poor at dealing with situations where there is a very wide range."
The dynamic range "should" be better, not worse, than other camera phones due to the ultrapixels. The fact that you got the same results in the alley with your point and shoot should have been a red flag. It's beyond silly that you assume the the iphone, with a smaller dynamic range, would not have either saturated on the sky or under exposed the scene.

edit: I see that you did say you thought the iphone would have lost some detail on the bricks. This is simply a function of the camera software. You just can't get around the fact that an ultra pixel sensor will be able to capture a wider delta between the lights and darks than a normal sensor.

 

[cdaq]

The problem again with this camera isn't the resolution unless you are looking to crop (zoom) or print. The biggest challenge is that it is calibrated to pick up fine details within a limited dynamic range meaning that if there are intense brights and darks in the scene it won't do well across the spectrum. For many common shots the camera is great, for others HDR (I'd use third party app) works best.

Here is a short write-up that explains this using a histogram and some samples to illustrate it: Productastic | Tech, Toys and other fun stuff by Heath Cajandig

R

Found this write up on the M7
HTC One UltraPixel Camera Versus the Competition

Look at the daylight shots. They back up the assertion that the larger pixels will have a wider range. Anyway, this is kind of a stupid point. If your camera is blowing out a part the scene the only options are live with it, increase shutter speed, decrease sensitivity (iso), or stop down the aperture. Doing any of those will cause the darker elements in the scene to be underexposed (sounds like this is what the iphone does in the auto modes?). That said, the M8 should be able to capture a bigger difference between light and dark before you must make any trade-offs.

 

[ugxvibe]

Found this write up on the M7
HTC One UltraPixel Camera Versus the Competition

Look at the daylight shots. They back up the assertion that the larger pixels will have a wider range. Anyway, this is kind of a stupid point. If your camera is blowing out a part the scene the only options are live with it, increase shutter speed, decrease sensitivity (iso), or stop down the aperture. Doing any of those will cause the darker elements in the scene to be underexposed (sounds like this is what the iphone does in the auto modes?). That said, the M8 should be able to capture a bigger difference between light and dark before you must make any trade-offs.

Meaning there should hopefully be an update to tweak the camera settings on auto.. (crossing fingers)

 

[Skyway]

Meaning there should hopefully be an update to tweak the camera settings on auto.. (crossing fingers)

You can tweak the settings on manual mode. The point of auto is the phone "tweaks" the settings for you, it would be pointless to be able to adjust settings on auto

Posted via Android Central App

 

[ThatHeath]

Very interesting but I'm not sure I can agree with your assessment about the cameras dynamic range.
"The problem stems from the fact that while Ultrapixel camera is fantastic at picking up subtle differences within a range of lighting, it is very poor at dealing with situations where there is a very wide range."
The dynamic range "should" be better, not worse, than other camera phones due to the ultrapixels. The fact that you got the same results in the alley with your point and shoot should have been a red flag. It's beyond silly that you assume the the iphone, with a smaller dynamic range, would not have either saturated on the sky or under exposed the scene.

edit: I see that you did say you thought the iphone would have lost some detail on the bricks. This is simply a function of the camera software. You just can't get around the fact that an ultra pixel sensor will be able to capture a wider delta between the lights and darks than a normal sensor.

Mainly I was trying to communicate my observations but generally I find it very difficult to get a shot where the sky and the ground is well exposed in many cases. I say many, because sometimes it surprises me and it works.

Compared to the M7 camera, I don't see much difference in the output but I haven't done a true side-by-side. In general I think the auto exposure struggles and I personally believe it is because the camera is best at resolving detail within a constrained overall dynamic range and not a broad one regardless of what it should be able to do.

 

[ugxvibe]

You can tweak the settings on manual mode. The point of auto is the phone "tweaks" the settings for you, it would be pointless to be able to adjust settings on auto

Posted via Android Central App

Yea, I just mean in general the way auto looks at things. I have a few 'lenses' set up already. Maybe a little tweak to help the camera determine the exact setting for the lighting that is present to prevent the whiteout, which I have noticed sometimes.. I'm pretty lazy and like just snapping instantly.

 

[ThatHeath]

You can tweak the settings on manual mode. The point of auto is the phone "tweaks" the settings for you, it would be pointless to be able to adjust settings on auto

Posted via Android Central App

Skyway, was I find interesting about the manual mode is that in scenarios where the highs are blown out, manually adjusting exposure and/or shutter speed doesn't allow you to get to a point better than the auto exposure. I use several cameras in manual mode all the time and I am familiar with this and the M8 seems limited in dynamic range.

What have others seen with this? Auto vs Manual side by sides? I end up with the best case manual being close to the Auto.

 

[cdaq]

Skyway, was I find interesting about the manual mode is that in scenarios where the highs are blown out, manually adjusting exposure and/or shutter speed doesn't allow you to get to a point better than the auto exposure. I use several cameras in manual mode all the time and I am familiar with this and the M8 seems limited in dynamic range.

I guess I don't understand. Going manual and increasing shutter speed (for example) must bring the blown out regions out of saturation at the expense of under exposing the darker elements. How can this not be the case?

 

[jev425]

It's a cloudy day here in Seattle(figures) when I take pictures outside it hasn't been able to expose the landscape or the sky properly to get an acceptable picture, for me at least, as I have an iPhone 5s as well. It either wants to expose the sky correctly and you get all the detail from the clouds just as well as the iphone does but the landscape becomes too dark. Same goes for when you get the landscape correctly exposed it blows out the clouds and all you see is white sky. Hoping maybe a software fix can do the trick bc I honestly love this phone.

 

[Haalcyon]

It's a cloudy day here in Seattle(figures) when I take pictures outside it hasn't been able to expose the landscape or the sky properly to get an acceptable picture, for me at least, as I have an iPhone 5s as well. It either wants to expose the sky correctly and you get all the detail from the clouds just as well as the iphone does but the landscape becomes too dark. Same goes for when you get the landscape correctly exposed it blows out the clouds and all you see is white sky. Hoping maybe a software fix can do the trick bc I honestly love this phone.

Can you take a picture with both the cameras and post the results?


Sent from my MF003LL/A

 

[Haalcyon]

Can you take a picture with both the cameras and post the results?


Sent from my MF003LL/A

My iPhone 5s takes photos I'm happy with.

My other half's interpretation of tuna salad, captured with my 5s. To me it looks like a little tuna was added to the mayo but the fidelity of the shot is actually pretty good.


Sent from my MF003LL/A

 

[ThatHeath]

I guess I don't understand. Going manual and increasing shutter speed (for example) must bring the blown out regions out of saturation at the expense of under exposing the darker elements. How can this not be the case?

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. In automatic mode, the camera decides frequently to allow some regions to be blown out so that darker elements can be seen. When entering manual mode and adjusting, you can accomplish a scenario where the dark areas are near black but the light area is properly exposed. However, you can't get to a good balance and usually the auto mode selection looks the best although it is a choice of two poor shots.

Other cameras seem to do better with how the overall shot look at perhaps the expense of some details.

 

[adavyhou]

Hi Everyone,

I am seriously thinking about picking up the new M8. I just had one question out there for someone who has it already. I was wondering how quick the phone is at taking pictures from a locked and sleeping state. I tried to test this in store yesterday but the phone had some silly demo software on it and it kept messing things up. I have small kids so grabbing my phone and being able to capture the moment quickly is a big deal for me. I currently have the One XL and its just too slow. i have played with an iphone 5s and have been impressed with how quick it is.

Cheers

 

[jev425]

Hi Everyone,

I am seriously thinking about picking up the new M8. I just had one question out there for someone who has it already. I was wondering how quick the phone is at taking pictures from a locked and sleeping state. I tried to test this in store yesterday but the phone had some silly demo software on it and it kept messing things up. I have small kids so grabbing my phone and being able to capture the moment quickly is a big deal for me. I currently have the One XL and its just too slow. i have played with an iphone 5s and have been impressed with how quick it is.

Cheers

From screen turned off I have to say the iphone is a little fast by that I mean maybe 1 second maybe 2. Only because the iphone has a home button you can quickly press instead of either reaching or using your other hand to hit the power button at the top of the M8 or if you tap to wake it up.

EDIT: I take that back I completely forgot you can hit the volume button on the M8 when it's asleep and it goes straight to camera

 

[adavyhou]

Thanks for that. Can you wake up the phone with the volume button and then its in camera mode right away?

 

[B0WIE]

Hi Everyone,

I am seriously thinking about picking up the new M8. I just had one question out there for someone who has it already. I was wondering how quick the phone is at taking pictures from a locked and sleeping state. I tried to test this in store yesterday but the phone had some silly demo software on it and it kept messing things up. I have small kids so grabbing my phone and being able to capture the moment quickly is a big deal for me. I currently have the One XL and its just too slow. i have played with an iphone 5s and have been impressed with how quick it is.

Cheers

I tried my M8 just now and it was less than 2 seconds to launch from the lock screen [edit; I didn't even know about the short-cut mentioned above!]. BUT, I have the One X too and it might be a fraction slower, but it still at 2 secs or less. Not long enough that any other phone could have any kind of meaningful advantage over it. Maybe the One XL is different/slower? The one thing about the M8 that is very improved is the quickness in which the photo is taken/processed. The One X takes a while to snap and requires a steady hand so it doesn't blur. The M8 is so dang fast that you sometimes don't realize you took the pic. It's like snapping your fingers. Granted, I usually tap-to-focus first to make sure I'm happy with the white-balance, focus, etc. But, in a hurry, it will take great pics too. I posted one of my Chinchilla in the other thread. He's constantly moving and twitching his whiskers but the M8 had no probs.

 

[jev425]

Thanks for that. Can you wake up the phone with the volume button and then its in camera mode right away?

Yes, it goes straight to camera but you have to be holding the phone in landscape when you click the volume button for it to launch the camera

 

[jev425]

Can you take a picture with both the cameras and post the results?


Sent from my MF003LL/A ��

I deleted the cloud pics from earlier but I just took these now(was hoping it cleared up) so I was able to get blue sky and some clouds in there. These are both in "auto" mode with nothing else done to them. I know some people will argue you can manually set the M8 camera but I think for the majority of people, including myself, we like to pull out the phone and snap a quick picture and not sit there tweaking with settings. By no means am I bashing the phone because I love this thing so I am holding onto it as long as I can and hope to see some kind of software change that might help.
iphone5s

M8

iphone5s

M8

 

[adavyhou]

Thanks for that! I think im going to go and grab it at lunch!

 

[Skyway]

Thanks for that. Can you wake up the phone with the volume button and then its in camera mode right away?

Yes but you have to have it in landscape. It's one of the motion launch features

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