HTC Vigor!!!

[FD2]

Specs wise I like this device. I'm just so over Sense, had it been vanilla I would be all over it. I need a vanilla device and hate loading CM cause crap will be broke (no 720P on camera ect).

 

[equake]

Do you guys think the Vigor will have the new 28nm chip? HTC said they would be releasing a device with it by the end of the year.. and I don't see any other high-end devices being announced by HTC. Also the chip is cited at being 1.5GHz which the MSM8960 is also clocked at I believe.
Thoughts?

Its a possibility for this latest generation Snapdragon S4 but the "Krait" snapdragon is supposedly clocked at 1.7GHz+. The current MSM8660 is can be clocked @1.5GHz but are clocked slower by the likes of the EVO 3D and Sensation.

If it is using Krait then than it is a battle between it and the Nexus Prime (or whatever it gets called). The Prime supposedly is using an OMAP chipset but it could also use Snapdragon on Verizon.

My 2 cents

 

[rrhartjr]

Its a possibility for this latest generation Snapdragon S4 but the "Krait" snapdragon is supposedly clocked at 1.7GHz+. The current MSM8660 is can be clocked @1.5GHz but are clocked slower by the likes of the EVO 3D and Sensation.

If it is using Krait then than it is a battle between it and the Nexus Prime (or whatever it gets called). The Prime supposedly is using an OMAP chipset but it could also use Snapdragon on Verizon.

My 2 cents

The Vigor is not Krait. FCC docs show it supporting it SVDO, which is only possible in a two modem scenario (ie: MSM8660 + MDM9600)

All the Krait SOCs have a multi-mode LTE modem as part of the SOC...

 

[equake]

The Vigor is not Krait. FCC docs show it supporting it SVDO, which is only possible in a two modem scenario (ie: MSM8660 + MDM9600)

All the Krait SOCs have a multi-mode LTE modem as part of the SOC...

This is not quite true, svdo has nothing to do with multiple chipsets but has to do with firmware support of voice over on the evdo channel with data on another evdo channel. The mdm9600 is a lte chipset and has nothing to do with evdo.

 

[whiteshadow001]

Im excited for beats integration (mainly cause i own a pair of beats studios). I have a thunderbolt and love it but this phone sounds to good to pass up

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1

 

[rrhartjr]

This is not quite true, svdo has nothing to do with multiple chipsets but has to do with firmware support of voice over on the evdo channel with data on another evdo channel. The mdm9600 is a lte chipset and has nothing to do with evdo.

Cellular voice doesn't transact over EVDO, only 1xRTT.. you can do voice chat over EVDO.. but that's just transacting cellular data.. not voice.

The way that the Thunderbolt supports SVDO is by using the modem in the Snapdragon SoC for 1xRTT (cellular voice, sms) and the discrete MDM9600 for the EVDO or LTE session.

Thus, you can always have a 1x connection for voice/sms, and use EVDO or LTE for data.

 

[equake]

Cellular voice doesn't transact over EVDO, only 1xRTT.. you can do voice chat over EVDO.. but that's just transacting cellular data.. not voice.

The way that the Thunderbolt supports SVDO is by using the modem in the Snapdragon SoC for 1xRTT (cellular voice, sms) and the discrete MDM9600 for the EVDO or LTE session.

Thus, you can always have a 1x connection for voice/sms, and use EVDO or LTE for data.

I call it a channel but you are correct it is the 1xRtt again it really is the number of attennas in place to transmit and receive voice and data over the respective baseband. Even if everything is integrated on a single chipset it can do SVDO. Technically all 4G phones on Verizon are SVDO because all of them can do do voice over 3G and data over 4G. In fact the Revolution can VoLTE so both data and voice can be on the same Baseband.

 

[rrhartjr]

I call it a channel but you are correct it is the 1xRtt again it really is the number of attennas in place to transmit and receive voice and data over the respective baseband. Even if everything is integrated on a single chipset it can do SVDO. Technically all 4G phones on Verizon are SVDO because all of them can do do voice over 3G and data over 4G. In fact the Revolution can VoLTE so both data and voice can be on the same Baseband.

Just so we're clear, SVDO means "Simultaneous Voice & Data Optimized", DO is the short form of EV-DO, which is the 3G packet data protocol used by Verizon.

The Revolution, the Droid Charge, nor the Droid Bionic support SVDO, as they all use a single discrete LTE-only chip provided by their manufacturer. The baseband in the SoC (Snapdragon or Hummingbird) provides the 1x OR EV-DO session. The baseband has a single attennna and can only transmit using one of the above protocols.

The Thunderbolt (and the Vigor) is unique because the LTE modem chip used by HTC is the MDM9600, which is a multi-mode modem supporting the GSM freqs used by LTE and the CDMA freqs used by 1x/EVDO.

If you look at the FCC docs for any of the LTE phones, you'll see a description in the SAR Report that details the "simultaneous transmission scenarios", because they must be enumerated to test maximum output powers. Only the Thunderbolt and Vigor are able to transmit on a CDMA voice channel and a EVDO data channel simultaneously.

Thunderbolt FCC: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...me=N&application_id=579333&fcc_id='NM8PG05100'

Note the "SAR Report rev 2-8-11"

Page 4: see the reference to two attennas, one for 1xRTT, one for EVDO/LTE
Page 8: see the table detailing the Simultaneous Transmission Possibilities, note the CDMA Voice + DO Data configurations

And for a counterpoint.. the Droid Charge..

Droid Charge FCC: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=641193&fcc_id=

Note the "RF Exposure Info 1"

Page 41: Figure 17-3 shows the "transmission paths", there's only one for 1x Voice AND 3G EVDO Data. A second path exists for LTE and a third for BT/WIFI.
Page 41: Table 17-1 show the Supported Transmission Combinations. Note the presence of CDMA+LTE (this is SVLTE).. but not CDMA+EVDO (this would be SVDO)

The Droid Charge uses the modem in its Hummingbird as the Voice and EVDO Path. The Samsung LTE baseband is used for LTE data sessions.

As an aside, the Revolution was demo'ed with VoLTE at CES, but did not ship with that capability.

Hope that helps.

 

[equake]

Just so we're clear, SVDO means "Simultaneous Voice & Data Optimized", DO is the short form of EV-DO, which is the 3G packet data protocol used by Verizon.

The Revolution, the Droid Charge, nor the Droid Bionic support SVDO, as they all use a single discrete LTE-only chip provided by their manufacturer. The baseband in the SoC (Snapdragon or Hummingbird) provides the 1x OR EV-DO session. The baseband has a single attennna and can only transmit using one of the above protocols.

The Thunderbolt (and the Vigor) is unique because the LTE modem chip used by HTC is the MDM9600, which is a multi-mode modem supporting the GSM freqs used by LTE and the CDMA freqs used by 1x/EVDO.

If you look at the FCC docs for any of the LTE phones, you'll see a description in the SAR Report that details the "simultaneous transmission scenarios", because they must be enumerated to test maximum output powers. Only the Thunderbolt and Vigor are able to transmit on a CDMA voice channel and a EVDO data channel simultaneously.

Thunderbolt FCC: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...me=N&application_id=579333&fcc_id='NM8PG05100'

Note the "SAR Report rev 2-8-11"

Page 4: see the reference to two attennas, one for 1xRTT, one for EVDO/LTE
Page 8: see the table detailing the Simultaneous Transmission Possibilities, note the CDMA Voice + DO Data configurations

And for a counterpoint.. the Droid Charge..

Droid Charge FCC: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=641193&fcc_id=

Note the "RF Exposure Info 1"

Page 41: Figure 17-3 shows the "transmission paths", there's only one for 1x Voice AND 3G EVDO Data. A second path exists for LTE and a third for BT/WIFI.
Page 41: Table 17-1 show the Supported Transmission Combinations. Note the presence of CDMA+LTE (this is SVLTE).. but not CDMA+EVDO (this would be SVDO)

The Droid Charge uses the modem in its Hummingbird as the Voice and EVDO Path. The Samsung LTE baseband is used for LTE data sessions.

As an aside, the Revolution was demo'ed with VoLTE at CES, but did not ship with that capability.

Hope that helps.

Perhaps its semantics but all the Verizon 4G do support voice and data simultaneously and its up to to the vendor to implement it correctly. Its also the same for 3G as long as there are multiple antennas.

Here is the official CDMA/EVDO definition CDG : Technology : Simultaneous Voice and Data (SVDO)

 

[rrhartjr]

Perhaps its semantics but all the Verizon 4G do support voice and data simultaneously and its up to to the vendor to implement it correctly. Its also the same for 3G as long as there are multiple antennas.

Here is the official CDMA/EVDO definition CDG : Technology : Simultaneous Voice and Data (SVDO)

Yea, the network supports it sure.. but there are basically no SVDO devices because of the infrastructure necessary (multiple modems and multiple antennas) and that includes the Verizon LTE devices, save for the Thunderbolt.

 

[equake]

Yea, the network supports it sure.. but there are basically no SVDO devices because of the infrastructure necessary (multiple modems and multiple antennas) and that includes the Verizon LTE devices, save for the Thunderbolt.

True save for the Vigor, but once LTE is built out for Verizon they'll just go with having 4G devices that can do simultaeneous voice/data over 4G. They just don't want to have dropped calls with current infrastructure by handing off calls from 4G to 3G

My point is that its not multi-modems but Baseband support for multi-antennas and baseband switching. With Krait Snapdragon there is no need for multiple modems and still support SVDO, VoLTE if the necessary antennas are there. The SoC will support all basebands and its up to the firmware to handle switching given the antennas on the phone.

My 2 Cents

 

[angel35]

I understand where you're coming from. However, from my vantage point (as a very frustrated and thankfully nearing the end of my contract Storm 2 user), phones such as the Bionic that are tauted for so long as the next "answer" need to be hashed out and released in a timely manner by the carrier (in other words, if the phone couldn't be released by May/June then it's not worth releasing it now). If they're unsure about the tech, then don't tell people about it or at the very least don't release it at $300. Anyone with half-a-brain knows that's a total insult.

Yes, most technology is obsolete in 3-6 months of release, but the difference with the Bionic is that it's obsolete AT RELEASE. It's almost irrelevant and ignorant to go and buy it and not wait an additional couple of months (even through January '12) to get something better and at the same price point.

As to computing power, I'm not using the phone for anything so intense that it'll bog down with any of the spec currently on the market. I'm more interested in power management with the newer chipsets. As that side of the technology gets better, the more enjoyable the experience is for me.

P.S. You're absolutely right...99% of consumers are stupid. LOL

Are come on now its more like 100%
:'(

 

[flenn]

I understand where you're coming from. However, from my vantage point (as a very frustrated and thankfully nearing the end of my contract Storm 2 user), phones such as the Bionic that are tauted for so long as the next "answer" need to be hashed out and released in a timely manner by the carrier (in other words, if the phone couldn't be released by May/June then it's not worth releasing it now). If they're unsure about the tech, then don't tell people about it or at the very least don't release it at $300. Anyone with half-a-brain knows that's a total insult.

Yes, most technology is obsolete in 3-6 months of release, but the difference with the Bionic is that it's obsolete AT RELEASE. It's almost irrelevant and ignorant to go and buy it and not wait an additional couple of months (even through January '12) to get something better and at the same price point.

As to computing power, I'm not using the phone for anything so intense that it'll bog down with any of the spec currently on the market. I'm more interested in power management with the newer chipsets. As that side of the technology gets better, the more enjoyable the experience is for me.

P.S. You're absolutely right...99% of consumers are stupid. LOL

The Bionic is not obsolete on release. It's not a compelling enough jump for me from my Dx, but it's at the head of the class if you're in the market for a V smartphone. If there ever was a phone that was obsolete on release, it was the Storm 2. Yet you bought one.

 

[labs point]

The Bionic is not obsolete on release. It's not a compelling enough jump for me from my Dx, but it's at the head of the class if you're in the market for a V smartphone. If there ever was a phone that was obsolete on release, it was the Storm 2. Yet you bought one.

It sure looks to me like the Sensation which is on the news feed here coming to England is exactly like the leaked pics of the Vigor.

Do those of you more in the know, think this is the same device coming to VZW?

 

[DougD84]

The Bionic is not obsolete on release. It's not a compelling enough jump for me from my Dx, but it's at the head of the class if you're in the market for a V smartphone. If there ever was a phone that was obsolete on release, it was the Storm 2. Yet you bought one.

Crackberry addiction does strange things to people. Trust me, I regret paying for this phone and just can't wait until the day I can put it back in the retail box and rock an Android handset (preferably the Vigor of course).

I guess what I mean about the Bionic being obsolete at release is that there quite a few phones out on the market (granted with different carriers) that already have better hardware available. Plus, if the rumors are to be believed, the Vigor and Prime will each dethrone the Bionic from its perch as the best phone on VZW. What bothers me is that its not even fashionably late to the party, it damn near missed the party entirely. If it released back in May/June I definitely wouldn't even insinuate that the Bionic wasn't worth it. However, in light of upcoming releases in the next month and a half (Vigor, Prime and iPhone 5) it almost doesn't even make sense from an informed consumers point of view to consider the Bionic without first waiting for the other devices to release and compare them.

**EDIT** Just another thought. I truly believe that part of the reason that Verizon didn't pick up an SGS II variant was because they didn't want it directly competing with the Bionic. Head-to-head, which would you choose when given the choice? Personally, I go with the SGS II 10 times out of 10 over the Bionic.

As you said, you have a DX and don't deem the Bionic as a worthy enough successor. Unfortunately for Moto, that's what I believe a lot of people will think. I'm not saying its not the best handset on Big Red NOW; I'm saying that it will be yesterday's tech in 3 weeks, which is entirely too short of an existence for a phone that is priced as a premium handset. I would expect at least 3 months of total dominance for $300.

 

[Droid800]

The Vigor is not Krait. FCC docs show it supporting it SVDO, which is only possible in a two modem scenario (ie: MSM8660 + MDM9600)

All the Krait SOCs have a multi-mode LTE modem as part of the SOC...

Sorry, no. The krait processors were specifically designed to integrate the LTE modem, and it has nothing to do with svdo.

It is entirely possible this has an S4 under the hood, but I doubt it. The s4 sampled in June, so it could be ready in time for the vigor, but that would be a super tight testing schedule.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[EggoEspada]

Yea, it's definitely possible like I was stating before. Course with the LTE modem integrated, the device would be noticeably slimmer correct? As far as I can tell from the photos we have, it looks to be similar to the Sensation.

Sent from my ADR6400L

 

[equake]

Sorry, no. The krait processors were specifically designed to integrate the LTE modem, and it has nothing to do with svdo.

It is entirely possible this has an S4 under the hood, but I doubt it. The s4 sampled in June, so it could be ready in time for the vigor, but that would be a super tight testing schedule.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think I already had beat that one to death. S4 was targeted for End of year deployment in handsets so its still conceivable that this handset would have it and lotsa blog sites mentioned that Google was looking at Krait, OMAP, Tegra for the next Nexus.

 

[crzycrkr]

Disregard

 

[Droid800]

This is my next device. Got a bionic and didn't like all of it enough to justify the full retail, so I'm going to get this instead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk