I don't care what they say, removable batteries are where its at.

[Kevin OQuinn]

Lol, apologies but that sounds like damage control or trying to keep the thread in check. It's funny and ironic to me as it wouldn't have been needed if so many with green badges hadn't road in and taken over the thread with unneeded debate. Guess you guys just couldn't let us have it to ourselves to enjoy....

I don't agree with this. It's not damage control.

But, those that actually USE a removable battery are in the minority. Samsung's data indicates that the majority of people don't care about a removable battery, and are willing to concede some market share because of that.

LG, as far as we know, may or may not be a data driven company. I would like to think that they are, so let's go based on that. They obviously look at their data and see enough of a benefit to see a positive side to keeping the trade-offs of removable battery. They see enough people that want one that they continue to do it. That does not imply that a majority want it, but that enough do to keep them doing it.

How is that bad for anyone? If both companies continued to do the same thing and were sort of mimicking each other this would be a very boring market for consumers.

Wait, it's only bad for those Note 4 hold outs that want a removable battery to come back to the Note line. I can say nothing to console those poor souls. Maybe LG will introduce a proper Note competitor....

 

[anon(394005)]

I say this on a regular basis, probably every couple of weeks or so: "Want what you like, buy what you want, love what you bought". Sometimes it changes slightly, but I've been saying it for years. It's kind of my thing, an older twist on "Be Together, Not the Same". When saying that, I mean let's definitely have a vigorous debate on what OEM's ought to do, etc... but at the end of the day, buy what you want, don't let others here tell you what you should or shouldn't want.

As for the rest of it, we encourage our ambassadors and moderators (and all regular members) to engage in conversation on all topics that they're interested in, so long as it is done in a polite and respectful tone. Our first job as volunteers is simply to participate in the community. We're all nerds here and there's no requirement for the "green badges" to avoid conversations just because someone doesn't want their opinions to be heard. Quite the contrary, we welcome the dissent and conversation because it brings more ideas to the table. In this thread, some people may not have realized that you can buy a 20,100 mAh battery for under $50 and charge your phone for a week off it. That may encourage them to check out devices they may have otherwise ignored.

If the purpose of a post is just to create one side of an argument and never have anything challenge it, the proper place for that post is in a person's diary or on their own website with closed comments. A public forum is a place that sparks dialogue and expecting 100% agreement throughout the world on any topic probably just isn't realistic. As long as we're all sharing in a civil manner, sharing opinions, including dissenting opinions, is a good thing IMO.

Completely understand but my point is that many users will see this thread and all the subsequent "green badges", all of which are dissenting opinions, as the overriding main point and subsequently eschew the point of the thread entirely (don't underestimate your influence). As a big proponent of user-replaceable batteries and their benefits this is very frustrating as it feels like you're cutting us off at the knees and IMHO is partly why so many OEMS have moved to sealed/embedded batteries (along with so many tech reviewers slathering praise on such designs, what I call form over function).

 

[Aquila]

Completely understand but my point is that many users will see this thread and all the subsequent "green badges", all of which are dissenting opinions, as the overriding main point and subsequently eschew the point of the thread entirely (don't underestimate your influence). As a big proponent of user-replaceable batteries and their benefits this is very frustrating as it feels like you're cutting us off at the knees and IMHO is partly why so many OEMS have moved to sealed/embedded batteries (along with so many tech reviewers slathering praise on such designs, what I call for over function).

Yeah, honestly I decided to disengage from the actual debate awhile ago because it was getting redundant and I don't want to drown out anyone's voice. I tend to make posts longer than they need to be I only came back and responded because it seemed like people were trying to convert others into their way of thinking, which I guess is sorta the point of a debate? But I didn't want it to get lost that it's totally find to want whatever you like and we shouldn't be trying to say, "NO YOUR WAY IS WRONG!" - rather than just talking intelligently about the pros and cons of each way of doing things. That's where the "buy what you want" message becomes important to me. It's not like one side or the other has an invalid opinion of what's going on - it's that we use our devices differently and so what works for me MIGHT work for you, but it might not and if it doesn't - who cares? Use it how you like to, not how I like to.

All that said, I don't think it's totally a form over function debate, I think it's a priority of function over function debate. The form part of it is kind of a side effect of a more nuanced functionality argument, rather than a goal - the way I see it. Which is the only reason I like discussing this topic every once in awhile, because if it were truly a form vs function argument, I'd be on your side with function all day long.

 

[LeoRex]

All that said, I don't think it's totally a form over function debate, I think it's a priority of function over function debate. The form part of it is kind of a side effect of a more nuanced functionality argument, rather than a goal - the way I see it. Which is the only reason I like discussing this topic every once in awhile, because if it were truly a form vs function argument, I'd be on your side with function all day long.

hear hear!

I mean, look at the G5... it has a removable battery.. but there were substantial design compromises made to make that happen. I don't think it is any coincidence that the battery capacity dropped in the process. Getting the internals laid out in order to allow for that cradle to connect and have room for the battery, probably a little bit of strengthening and such, that takes away space. Look at the G5 and S7 Edge, two phones that have similar HW specs and are nearly identical in terms of size. The S7 Edge has a battery that is 800mah larger to go with the slightly larger screen.

Now, I get that the cradle thing on the G5 is meant for more than a removable battery, but to a vast majority of the owners of the G5, that is its sole use. Between the two, I mean, I would much rather have had LG seal that sucker up and pack a 3600mah battery of its own in there.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Completely understand but my point is that many users will see this thread and all the subsequent "green badges", all of which are dissenting opinions, as the overriding main point and subsequently eschew the point of the thread entirely (don't underestimate your influence). As a big proponent of user-replaceable batteries and their benefits this is very frustrating as it feels like you're cutting us off at the knees and IMHO is partly why so many OEMS have moved to sealed/embedded batteries (along with so many tech reviewers slathering praise on such designs, what I call form over function).

I gotta say. You just gave credit to badged AC members for influencing the design of most major phones.

I like that.

 

[johnshaft]

Unfortunately, the phone manufacturers are heading towards non-removable battery phones. For better or for worse.
For worse for us because we would like to change batteries on the fly and keep working. But no matter what we try to do as consumers there are only a handful that will listen. For them its an advantage because they know that in two plus years that most will likely get a new phone at the latest. That's their gimmick in coming out phones each year. For those you used to play video games long ago, I'll give you this analogy. New phones that come out are like the Madden NFL series. Each year they introduce a new feature or two, and sometimes take a feature away from a previous year. When people notice and get upset, they usually put the feature back in. Especially if there is a high demand for it.

With the exception to having an extended battery. Sadly, only a few (BLU, LG for example) remain. It is highly possible that all will eventually do this at some point.

 

[Aquila]

How could someone be against removeable batteries? I can see where you say that it isn't a big deal, but to say that it is a negative is odd. I would love to have a removeable battery but not enough for me to roll with a V10 or G4 or 5. I carry a portable charger with me at all times. I hardly ever need it but it has saved me a few times.

Removable battery has some steep costs associated with it, including functionality, financial and opportunity costs. It's also solving a problem that no longer needs to be solved for the vast majority of users; and for those that would benefit from it, there are some equally compelling solutions.

The drawbacks of a removable battery begin with design: Obviously the device has to be thicker and wider than it otherwise would be. And the battery itself must conform to a 'normal' shape, typically rectangular solid, whereas it could be shaped differently if it didn't have to be removable. The battery will be smaller than it would be if it didn't have to be removable, which impacts battery life and is a good lead into the next problem, functionality: Battery life is worse with a smaller battery than with a larger battery, when all other things are equal. The location of the battery has to be different in order to be removable, which hurts the effectiveness of heat dispersion and reduces the availability of other components due to the lack of real estate in tight three dimensional spaces. This ultimately means less features are available without making the device bigger. The device is also physically less secure, more prone to breakage with user movable or removable parts. Next are financial issues which I also tie to opportunity cost: It costs a lot of money to have engineers moving everything around to try to accomplish a device with a removable battery without sacrificing too much of the rest of the engineering constraints. That money could have been spent on any number of more important things, such as better software, more product testing to proactively prevent recall level issues, faster software updates, better software testing, better performance on security updates, better advertising or those savings could even theoretically be passed on to the consumer directly.

Those are the cost considerations every OEM has to think about when choosing this feature over that feature, and on this specific feature this list is definitely not comprehensive but it's a good idea of the types of considerations. Within those is a market opportunity cost: will the sales lost from not having this feature or that feature be more or less than the sales lost in the future from having a poor experience or from having the wrong numbers on the spec sheet or from missing other sought after features? Fun job, right?

The way Samsung articulated it today (link I posted in this thread earlier) was pretty decent, they listed a couple considerations and then pointed out that in the S7 Edge they have a humongous battery, fast charging and even wireless charging. They also have data on who uses battery packs and many consumers are using battery packs. Samsung pointed out that with a battery pack or a battery, either way you're carrying something - and they feel that a internal battery that lasts all day and adding fast charging and wireless charging is a better solution for most consumers.

And this is all solving a problem that was "solved" over 3 years ago, when battery life stopped sucking in phones and external chargers and fast charging became more acceptable.

TLDR, there are definitely tradeoffs and each OEM has to decide which tradeoffs they're willing to accept and then each user has to decide which tradeoffs they're willing to accept and purchase accordingly. For me personally, a removable battery signifies the OEM isn't thinking things through they way I hope they ought to. For others, lacking a removable battery means that the OEM isn't even trying to sell the phone to them.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I don't agree with this. It's not damage control.

But, those that actually USE a removable battery are in the minority. Samsung's data indicates that the majority of people don't care about a removable battery, and are willing to concede some market share because of that.

LG, as far as we know, may or may not be a data driven company. I would like to think that they are, so let's go based on that. They obviously look at their data and see enough of a benefit to see a positive side to keeping the trade-offs of removable battery. They see enough people that want one that they continue to do it. That does not imply that a majority want it, but that enough do to keep them doing it.

How is that bad for anyone? If both companies continued to do the same thing and were sort of mimicking each other this would be a very boring market for consumers.

Wait, it's only bad for those Note 4 hold outs that want a removable battery to come back to the Note line. I can say nothing to console those poor souls. Maybe LG will introduce a proper Note competitor....

When I had devices with removable batteries, I never owned more than one battery. I just charged those devices the same way I charged my other devices that don't have removable batteries.

I've purchased a lot of different accessories for my devices over the years, such as headphones (wired and Bluetooth) charging packs, car chargers, but I've never purchased extra batteries. One of the main reasons why I like charging packs better than removable batteries is because I like to use my accessories for multiple devices. I'd rather have something that works with all of my gear, rather than works with just a single device.

 

[Aquila]

Laura brings up a good point. I normally don't use any single device for long enough that buying a bunch of individual things for it is a good investment. For people who use a single device for more than a year, especially 2+ years, having things dedicated to that one device may be a better idea. But for me, having things that work with any device is much more beneficial.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Laura brings up a good point. I normally don't use any single device for long enough that buying a bunch of individual things for it is a good investment. For people who use a single device for more than a year, especially 2+ years, having things dedicated to that one device may be a better idea. But for me, having things that work with any device is much more beneficial.

Even if someone keeps devices longer than a year, they still might have multiple devices such as phones and tablets, or they want to share their accessories with family members who don't have the same phones.

 

[Mike Dee]

Even if someone keeps devices longer than a year, they still might have multiple devices such as phones and tablets, or they want to share their accessories with family members who don't have the same phones.

While this may be true for some the difference with the G5 is that you can use the battery and cradle for other devices so you are not limited to use it with one device.

Posted via the Android Central App

 

[Aquila]

While this may be true for some the difference with the G5 is that you can use the battery and cradle for other devices so you are not limited to use it with one device.

Posted via the Android Central App

Could you explain that a little further? Which other devices are using the G5 battery and cradle?

 

[Mike Dee]

The battery sits inside a charging cradle so you can use it as an external battery pack to use with any USB device. You can also charge the battery outside of the phone.

Posted via the Android Central App

 

[dpham00]

The battery sits inside a charging cradle so you can use it as an external battery pack to use with any USB device. You can also charge the battery outside of the phone.

Posted via the Android Central App

It seems bulky to be used just as a 2800mah battery pack... Does it charge another device at 5v/2a?

 

[itguyjax8430]

I'm still trying to understand why you wouldn't just plug your phone in while it's mounted on you dash using navigation. Do you just have something against using your car charger? If so why do you have one? 45 minute drive is plenty of time to top off most phones with QC.


It's like you guys are totally against plugging your phone in unless it's almost dead or you are at home about to go to bed. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[1901Madison]

Personally, I think stuff like removable batteries and quick charging should complement and support good battery life.

I don't think they're a good excuse for average to poor battery life.

Yes, this!

 

[Aquila]

The battery sits inside a charging cradle so you can use it as an external battery pack to use with any USB device. You can also charge the battery outside of the phone.

Posted via the Android Central App

That's a cool idea. LG consistently surprises me with things they thought of that everyone else should have.

 

[Mike Dee]

I'm still trying to understand why you wouldn't just plug your phone in while it's mounted on you dash using navigation. Do you just have something against using your car charger? If so why do you have one? 45 minute drive is plenty of time to top off most phones with QC.


It's like you guys are totally against plugging your phone in unless it's almost dead or you are at home about to go to bed. Doesn't make sense to me.

There are lots of reasons why its not always convenient or possible. I didn't say I never plug in my phone. Is there something wrong with my liking having a removable battery and thinking its a great thing?

Posted via the Android Central App

 

[itguyjax8430]

There are lots of reasons why its not always convenient or possible. I didn't say I never plug in my phone. Is there something wrong with my liking having a removable battery and thinking its a great thing?

Posted via the Android Central App

No there's nothing wrong with liking a removable battery. I wasn't trying to imply that . I'm just trying to see the logic in not charging the phone if access is available. I can say personally I have never been in a situation where it wasn't convenient or possible for me to charge my phone. If I'm in the car and going to work I'll plug my phone in. I'm very rarely below 50% on my phone. I plug in when I get to work because I stream all day long and when I leave work I'm usually at 100%. I get in my car I turn on Waze and Google Music, when I plug in my phone when I get home I'm at 100%. I have quick charging Chargers all over the place in my house and in my car / wife's car, and I have a quick charging battery pack that's in my laptop bag. I guess what I'm getting at is that a removable is convenient but so is pluging in your phone and charging it.

 

[Aquila]

Is there something wrong with my liking having a removable battery and thinking its a great thing?

Nope. Totally fine. It's weird, but fine.