iPad Mini resolution no match for Nexus 7.

[natehoy]

I agree, and regardless of what Apple says about this being in their plan all along, the iPad mini feels like a rushed product. They were caught off guard thinking there was no market for smaller tablets and never planned on making one until they saw Android tablets selling. I say it feels rushed because they just took their old tech (A5 chip, non-retina screen) and slapped them into a smaller form factor. Anyone who claims this took them a long time to engineer is fooling themselves. Their biggest decision was screen size and they figured 7.9" vs. 7" they could trump how they have "more room" on their screen then 7" tablets. All the technology is already there, it wouldn't have taken Apple very long at all to put this product together.

Yeah, I saw the screenshots of the announcement, and in particular the resolution (I get non-retina, but 1024x768? 4x3? Really?) and the 5mpix rear-facing camera (*) really made it sound like a "oh, (fecal matter)! This niche really does exist, and we ain't in it! We gotta get something to market STAT before Google finishes our lunch and starts in on dessert!"

I'm sure they are built well - Apple is good at that. And I'm sure every component, including the ow-resolution screen and the mediocre camera, will be taken fully advantage of and look great. But the specs are slapdash, not what I'd expect from Apple.

(*) I get that a rear-facing camera is useful to some and the Nexus 7 lacks one entirely, but for an actual portable device you should AT LEAST be including an 8mpix, and if you are as serious about visuals as Apple that should be a 12mpix with a decent-sized lens - my HTC THUNDERBOLT has a better camera, and it's 2-year-old tech!

 

[cormaster628]

I agree, and regardless of what Apple says about this being in their plan all along, the iPad mini feels like a rushed product. They were caught off guard thinking there was no market for smaller tablets and never planned on making one until they saw Android tablets selling. I say it feels rushed because they just took their old tech (A5 chip, non-retina screen) and slapped them into a smaller form factor. Anyone who claims this took them a long time to engineer is fooling themselves. Their biggest decision was screen size and they figured 7.9" vs. 7" they could trump how they have "more room" on their screen then 7" tablets. All the technology is already there, it wouldn't have taken Apple very long at all to put this product together.

I agree and what are they going to do now? Correct that mistake and release one with retina in 6 months and piss off a bunch of people who bought the current one like they did with the iPad 3?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[return_0]

As opposed to the build quality issues of the N7? I like my N7 but I think it is important that Google step up the build quality on the Nexus. I don't want another Nexus phone whose power button wears out in less than a year, or a tablet whose screen delams. I don't want cheap Samsung junk either.

Don't know whether you've disassembled your N7 but its power button is not long for this world either. This is a component that should be designed for heavy use and clearly it is not. This is something that Apple thinks about, and that Nexus OEM's don't.

Is anyone really satisfied with build quality of their N7 when you compare it side by side with an iPad?

Actually, I find the build quality of my N7 to be better than that of the iPad. iPads break too easily, while my N7 is pretty durable.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums

 

[badbrad17]

I agree and what are they going to do now? Correct that mistake and release one with retina in 6 months and piss off a bunch of people who bought the current one like they did with the iPad 3?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

I bet this is exactly what they are working on. But they want to test the waters first to see how much money they can take from the isuckers.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Android Central Forums

 

[natehoy]

I agree and what are they going to do now? Correct that mistake and release one with retina in 6 months and piss off a bunch of people who bought the current one like they did with the iPad 3?

Interesting point. Google (if the rumors are true) will demonstrate right out of the gate that they are ready, willing, and able to obsolete their own product line in a matter of a few months. Apple has kept an annual release going like clockwork and there hasn't been anything truly revolutionary out of Cupertino for a while now. The best Apple can bring to the table at the moment is more expensive and lower-performing in a whole lot of ways than Google's original offerings from a few months ago, and Google has a major announcement in just a few more days.

Honestly, it would not surprise me one bit if Google had a Nexus 7 Prime with an 8- or 12-mpix rear facing camera with a $50 premium in time for delivery by Santy Claws. They have so many manufacturers to partner with, they can have multiple irons in the fire at any given point.

 

[badbrad17]

Yeah, I saw the screenshots of the announcement, and in particular the resolution (I get non-retina, but 1024x768? 4x3? Really?) and the 5mpix rear-facing camera (*) really made it sound like a "oh, (fecal matter)! This niche really does exist, and we ain't in it! We gotta get something to market STAT before Google finishes our lunch and starts in on dessert!"

I'm sure they are built well - Apple is good at that. And I'm sure every component, including the ow-resolution screen and the mediocre camera, will be taken fully advantage of and look great. But the specs are slapdash, not what I'd expect from Apple.

(*) I get that a rear-facing camera is useful to some and the Nexus 7 lacks one entirely, but for an actual portable device you should AT LEAST be including an 8mpix, and if you are as serious about visuals as Apple that should be a 12mpix with a decent-sized lens - my HTC THUNDERBOLT has a better camera, and it's 2-year-old tech!

Personally I find my rear camera useless on my Transformer Prime. It takes great looking photos, I just never really use it.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Android Central Forums

 

[ajbrsb]

Private schools? Perhaps. Public schools? Not any of the ones I know. Heck, most public school districts can barely afford 3 year old Dells. Where would they get the money to equip classrooms with miniature tablets?

Our local school district started a program this year giving all students 6th grade and up a Mac Book instead of text books....

 

[badbrad17]

Not sure where you got that from my post.

All I said was that the iPad Mini was sucky 2 year old tech, and that Android device makers have a deplorable record for patching / updating their devices (Apples record is superb).

I hate to just shut down debate, but the above 2 statements are hardly deniable.

N7 is clearly superior to the iPad Mini, but if you're comparing N7 to iPad 3 / 4 it makes me wonder if you're in some other forum somewhere debating about how much better a Mustang is vs a Grand Caravan...


Sent from my iPod Shuffle

How is the N7 not being updated? It's a nexus device so you are clearly the one who is misinformed. My Transformer Prime has been updated from HC to ICS to JB like clockwork and it's only a year old. My now dated SGS2 is running ICS and should be getting JB before Christmas. There is some fragmentation but not for those of us that make wise purchases.

The N7 dollar for dollar will have fantastic shelf life and continue to get every update that it can handle. And it will be doing this with a price tag of $200.

Please enlighten me how I missed the point?

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Android Central Forums

 

[natehoy]

Personally I find my rear camera useless on my Transformer Prime. It takes great looking photos, I just never really use it.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Android Central Forums

Agreed. And, honestly, not to argue with my own point but the only camera I'd really find useful on my Nexus 7 would be just enough camera to scan barcodes and run augmented reality apps - in other words take the 1.whatever mpix camera from the front and clone it to the back.

But the main point is that, if you're going to actually put a multi-megapixel camera in a portable device because you think people might actually want on, why pick 5 megapixels? It's overkill for barcode/augmented reality with a 1024x768 screen, yet it's not going to take anything better than simple snapshots and 8mpix and 12mpix sensors aren't that much pricier... It's a really, REALLY odd resolution to pick. It ain't useful for a lot, and what it is useful for, it's entirely overkill.

Actually, it's analogous to Apple's chosen screen size and resolution or the iPad Mini. Just bigger enough to not fit in a jeans pocket any more and be harder to handle.

I love Apple. I really do. My fourth computer was an Apple IIe, and I admired its flexibility, its innovation, and many things about it. I own an iPod Touch Gen 2, and it is, even now, a thing of beauty that has held up remarkably well. Apple's design team routinely comes out with beautiful shiny well-designed things. Mostly things that are above my chosen price range for toys, or things that were not made for me (the iPhone, even the 5, is too small for my large hands, but I admire its beauty and quality all the same, even if it's useless to me), but I admire the shiny things. I want all the shiny things.

But not the iPad Mini. I can honestly say that this is the first Apple device that I cannot imagine owning. Not only would I not pay a premium for it, I would not pay AS MUCH as I would for a Nexus 7 for it.

It's too full of weird compromises, and it's like the brilliant design people who have been pumping out beautiful things went on vacation for 6 months. I don't know who snuck in and took their place, but... damn.

Don't get me wrong - at a lower price or with an actually useful camera and actual 7" form factor with a higher-resolution screen, I'd be seriously looking at finally relenting to all my iThingie-owning pals and joining the other 90% of people at work who own iPhones.

But not for this. Not at that price.

 

[iN8ter]

Apple has a superior media and tablet app ecosystem. It worth paying more since you will get more value out of the device compared to a Nexus 7. Also, Stock Android is missing a lot of the service integraton that OSes like Widnows RT and iOS 5/6 has. I still am trying to figure out why Google put a Phone UI on a 7" Tablet. They chouldn't even optimize their own tablet OS for the DPI and screen resolution they use on their own tablet? Ludicrous.

That being said, the lack of a back camera on the Nexus 7 makes it a show-stopper for every coach here who uses an iPad, cause they use the back camera on their devices. Google doesn't have any decent alternatives to iPhoto, iMovie, and iWorks (Google Docs/Drives doesn't compare) nor do they have a companion software that is comparable to iTunes (DoubleTwist won't let you roll back your firmware, for example, and you have to pay to Sync via WiFi).

No one cares about stock price people were linking the same crap before the 4S set sales records. It's all about UX and delivering what people want. It will sell well.

Not sure how anyone can complain about the MP in the back camera. The Nexus 7 has no back camera. And MP doesn't matter. If they put a 12MP camera in there it will likely be like the Xperia ion's camera. 12.1MP crammed in a sensor the same size as the average 8MP camera that takes worse pictures than a great 5MP camera nevermind terrible/grainy low light performance. 5MP is big enough. Most pictures you upload to sites like Google+, Facebook, or Twitter will be resized, anyways. I doubt anyone here is taking pictures with a phone to print on posters or billboards. You use a real camera for that.

Most cameras look like champions when you view them on a small screen (even 10" is small for 8-12MP images). When you put them on a PC and view them at full size that often tells a different story. At that point you'll realize things like... The HTC Vivid has a superior camera to the GS3 and produces better, sharper images and some phones like the Xperia ion that has 12MP BSI Exmor R (yay!!!!) sensors, or the Lumia 900 with its Carl Zeiss lens are absolutely abysmal. The people who look at images on a phone or tablet screen are also the ones who think the Galaxy Nexus camera is a great 5MP camera. Small screens and compression hide noise and make the images look sharper than they actually are. Aside from saving space, that's also why a lot of sites resize them.

 

[janesa13]

I've never seen Apple directly attempt to trash a competitor product side by side with their own like they did with the Nexus 7 vs iPad mini. Was the reasoning behind that? This thing will sell regardless of how they position it against Google.

It's a common reaction for a company in #2 position (in the small tablet space, apple is a new entrant) to always take a shot at the company ahead of them.
Ever see Coke commercial making fun of Pepsi? It's the other way around usually.
Ditto for "I'm a PC vs I'm a Mac" commercial. Microsoft commercial never even acknowledged Apple.

 

[badbrad17]

The average person won't know. My wife was asking me about the iPad mini and I told her its much more expensive compared to Android tablets that have better tech. She said to me "I wouldn't know I'd just see iPad in the store and think 'oh that is apple is must be good'"

This is a huge problem for competitors right now, mind share with non techie buyers. People just assume they get top tier stuff with apple because it's apple and don't bother doing research or asking why they're paying more. They figure higher cost means it's better.

I agree to some degree, but I believe there is a shift happening. It's not something that happens over night but consider that most tablet buyers are getting the device for entertainment, Web browsing, Facebook and some email. This is not a critical device. Any salesperson worth their salt would show people their options and price is important for many people who are not cutting edge buyers.

If people can get a N7 for half price with better specs I think there will be a ton of people choosing the cheaper option.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Android Central Forums

 

[natehoy]

Android device makers have a deplorable record for patching / updating their devices (Apples record is superb).

Apple's record at updating Apple-branded devices is superb, but keep in mind that Apple does not have any non-Apple-branded devices running iOS. Eventually, Apple devices stop getting iOS upgrades when the hardware simply will not support the new OS (as evidenced my by iPod Touch Gen 2, which saw its last iOS upgrade about 2 years after I acquired it).

Google's record for updating GOOGLE-branded devices (with the codename "Nexus") is similarly excellent.

Google also has the advantage/disadvantage of releasing the Android OS so any phone/tablet manufacturer on the planet can freely use it to power their own self-supported devices. This leads to the advantage of a large and diverse variety of devices, all interoperable with each other, all running the same basic software but with the ability to tune and tweak and alter it to run on all sorts of interesting things. But since those things are all built by different people with different ideas, you also run into market fragmentation over things like support duration, timeliness of upgrades, and even UI differences that can make a different brand of phone an almost entirely different beast to operate (but you can always buy or get free standard market applications that make your phone suit your personal preferences).

Android is also open-source, meaning people can (and do) build aftermarket versions of the operating systems. So even most non-Nexus phones CAN be running the latest Android OS with pretty minimal effort, as long as the hardware can support it.

If you want an Android device that you know will receive timely official updates, look for the "Nexus" name. It will limit your choices, true, but those are choices the Apple ecosystem, for all of its excellent design considerations and build quality, simply does not offer.

 

[badbrad17]

I actually really like the mini. i think the price point was about $25-$30 too high, but that is just me. if they matched the N7 in resolution it would be a different story.

I think it's $100 over priced. Had they gone with a Retina display they would be about $25 over but not with these specs.

 

[natehoy]

Any salesperson worth their salt would show people their options and price is important for many people who are not cutting edge buyers.

The problem is that Androids are not generally sold by salespeople who "know their salt". In Best Buy and Staples and Wal-Mart and other places where Android tablets are sold, manufacturers are not competing for the mind share of salesfolk. They are competing for primo shelf space, where the potential buyers see your product first. And Apple routinely outbids everyone to pay for those oh-so-valuable endcaps.

About the only place you'll get an actual sit-down with someone who knows their breadth of product well is going to be a boutique store. And I know of only one company that runs those any more. They are headquartered in Cupertino.

Google is geek-marketing, which is great for us geeks. They give us all the technical specs and the ability to tune the devices 14 ways to Sunday.

Apple's got the marketing chops for the commodity crowd, and Google has an uphill battle in that arena in many ways.

 

[badbrad17]

Apple has a superior media and tablet app ecosystem. It worth paying more since you will get more value out of the device compared to a Nexus 7. Also, Stock Android is missing a lot of the service integraton that OSes like Widnows RT and iOS 5/6 has. I still am trying to figure out why Google put a Phone UI on a 7" Tablet. They chouldn't even optimize their own tablet OS for the DPI and screen resolution they use on their own tablet? Ludicrous.

That being said, the lack of a back camera on the Nexus 7 makes it a show-stopper for every coach here who uses an iPad, cause they use the back camera on their devices. Google doesn't have any decent alternatives to iPhoto, iMovie, and iWorks (Google Docs/Drives doesn't compare) nor do they have a companion software that is comparable to iTunes (DoubleTwist won't let you roll back your firmware, for example, and you have to pay to Sync via WiFi).

I agree with your camera comments so I omitted them to shorten the post.

In terms of what Google offers software wise and app wise I think you may not be looking at they complete picture here. Google is 2 years behind Apple in tablet and smartphones. For a good number of years apple was staying ahead. Yet now what we are seeing is a transition in who is leading. The N7 is a good example. Apple is now trying to enter a market dominated by Android tablets. Some are better than others but Google is now activating 70,000 tablets a day. This is not yet to the numbers Apple is activating but it says something very important. It is very reminiscent of a couple of years ago when Apple fans said Android would never outsell the iPhone yet here we are selling more. Yes the tablet apps need some work and the Os is still growing up but with the pace that technology is changing it is only a matter of time before Google plugs every piece in their puzzle and is offering better products in every way.

 

[Shilohcane]

Oh yeahhhhh... I forgot. But the revamped iPad 3 introduced yesterday has an A6X, right?

The N7 has twice the CPU performance as the current iPad 3. So that would make the N7 about four times faster than the over priced iPad min with it's old iPad 2 cpu (A5X). Check out the video of N7 CPU vs iPad 3.

Nexus 7 vs iPad | Fastest Android Tablet EVER - YouTube

 

[RichardRight]

The hypocrisy in this thread is amazing. A wider iPad is now suddenly uncomfortable to hold, but when Android phones come with 4.7", 4.8" screen compared to the iPhone's 4" screen, they are perfectly fine. View attachment 42749

I have the right to buy whatever is most comfortable for me to hold, even if it offends an Apple fan, even if it offends you. I have frequently stated that a person should not be criticized for buying what works for him. but I expect the same consideration in return. A fat tablet like the iPad Mini just would not be comfortable for me to hold in 1 hand while I read a book. I don't have 1 of those big screen Android phones, but if I did, I wouldn't be holding it in 1 hand for long stretches while I read anyway. And 1 last point: there's an article by Bloomberg magazine this morning where they make that very point, that it feels awkward holding the iPad mini in 1 hand.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums

 

[saintforlife]

I have the right to buy whatever is most comfortable for me to hold, even if it offends an Apple fan, even if it offends you. I have frequently stated that a person should not be criticized for buying what works for him. but I expect the same consideration in return. A fat tablet like the iPad Mini just would not be comfortable for me to hold in 1 hand while I read a book. I don't have 1 of those big screen Android phones, but if I did, I wouldn't be holding it in 1 hand for long stretches while I read anyway. And 1 last point: there's an article by Bloomberg magazine this morning where they make that very point, that it feels awkward holding the iPad mini in 1 hand.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums

People can buy whatever they want. I never said anything to the contrary. I myself have a Samsung Galaxy S3. I was just pointing out how hypocritical some people can be. FWIW, I also point out hypocrisy on Apple forums.

Having said that, the iPad mini is only 7.2 mm thick compared to the Nexus 7's 10.45 mm thickness. It also weighs only 308 gms compared to the Nexus 7's 340 gms. The iPad mini is not 'fat' by any means. The same reasons that make large Android phones like the GS3 and the HOX very easy to hold (thin and light) will make the iPad mini easy to hold in one hand.

ETA:
The Kindle Fire HD dimensions are 7.6" x 5.4" x 0.4" and weighs 394 gms and the iPad mini dimensions are 7.87" x 5.3" x 0.28" and weighs 308 gms. Tell me in what world the iPad mini is not more portable than one of the best tablets in the market for e-reading and content consumption?

 

[mzanette]

The N7 has twice the CPU performance as the current iPad 3. So that would make the N7 about four times faster than the over priced iPad min with it's old iPad 2 cpu (A5X). Check out the video of N7 CPU vs iPad 3.

Nexus 7 vs iPad | Fastest Android Tablet EVER - YouTube

That was the iPad 3? Wow. The iPad 3 uses the A5X chip, the new iPad mini uses the A5 chip which would be even slower.