Is Tmo's 700MHz LTE only for cellular data?

[Eight Ball]

If your device has VoLTE then it would use the B12 700mhz LTE signal for a voice call just as its using it for data.

FWIW, I tried browsing through TMO's current lineup of phones, and they list 14 new phones as being b12 compatible. I'd be surprised though if all 14 of them can do voLTE.

Does this mean only TMO branded phones, (and b12 compatible; and voLTE capable) can do voLTE on 700 MHz where 700 MHz has been deployed?

Additionally, what about non TMO branded phones that have the b12 antenna? I believe the Alcatel Idol 3 has b12 antenna. Assuming it cannot do voLTE, would it still be able to take advantage of data on 700 MHz?

 

[raino]

Does this mean only TMO branded phones, (and b12 compatible; and voLTE capable) can do voLTE on 700 MHz where 700 MHz has been deployed?

Correct on the branded part, and as far as I'm concerned, TBD on "voLTE wherever 700 MHz has been deployed."

Additionally, what about non TMO branded phones that have the b12 antenna? I believe the Alcatel Idol 3 has b12 antenna. Assuming it cannot do voLTE, would it still be able to take advantage of data on 700 MHz?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Eight Ball]

Up thread there is reference Motorola disabling b12 (assuming Moto g) because it's not voLTE capable. Keep in mind this stuff is all above my head, but as a layperson making a casual remark, you would think Motorola would have kept the b12 enabled on the Moto g (2015) if it could still pull in b12 cellular data. (Assuming that b12 hardware is there and they in fact disabled it).

 

[raino]

Up thread there is reference Motorola disabling b12 (assuming Moto g) because it's not voLTE capable. Keep in mind this stuff is all above my head, but as a layperson making a casual remark, you would think Motorola would have kept the b12 enabled on the Moto g (2015) if it could still pull in b12 cellular data. (Assuming that b12 hardware is there and they in fact disabled it).

Apparently according to "Tom Motorola Support," it was at the carrier's behest. In 5.1 they completely disabled b12; if you downgrade, it works. You can read "Tom's" comment it here, it's the third comment thread: PSA - Moto's 5.1 Update to the 2015 Moto E Disables Band 12 : tmobile

Has TMO officially denied this?

 

[Sean473]

I can confirm that B12 LTE is used for voice calls over LTE on my H811... Had B12 all over Bethesda when I went around..

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

[Shilohcane]

I was asking if people in those places with just b12 LTE have documented voLTE. Even if they didn't, you could easily meet a marketer's definition of 'nationwide.'

T-Mobile has both Nation wide VoLTE and VoWiFi. LTE is a standardized global communication protocol regardless of the spectrum it is broadcasted over. LTE is LTE so it doesn't matter if the LTE is on Band 12 or Band 2 or 4. T-Mobile has activated Carrier Aggregation using 5Mhz Band 12 as Primary Component Carrier with 10MHz Band 4 as Secondary Component Carrier for the maximum aggregated download rates of 110Mbps. I have used both VoLTE on Band 12 and Band 4 and VoWiFi to make High Def phone calls with my LG G4. There is no carrier in the nation that covers every location in this country including AT&T and Verizon that both have huge holes in their coverage maps just like everyone else.

 

[UDPGuy]

T-Mobile has both Nation wide VoLTE and VoWiFi. LTE is a standardized global communication protocol regardless of the spectrum it is broadcasted over. LTE is LTE so it doesn't matter if the LTE is on Band 12 or Band 2 or 4. T-Mobile has activated Carrier Aggregation using 5Mhz Band 12 as Primary Component Carrier with 10MHz Band 4 as Secondary Component Carrier for the maximum aggregated download rates of 110Mbps. I have used both VoLTE on Band 12 and Band 4 and VoWiFi to make High Def phone calls with my LG G4. There is no carrier in the nation that covers every location in this country including AT&T and Verizon that both have huge holes in their coverage maps just like everyone else.

Long story short, to get band 12 the phone must support volte or T-Mobile disables band 12 (I.E. Motorola phones)

Posted via Nexus 6 with unlimited international data via AT&T

 

[Almeuit]

Long story short, to get band 12 the phone must support volte or T-Mobile disables band 12 (I.E. Motorola phones)

Posted via Nexus 6 with unlimited international data via AT&T

Luckily with the Moto X Style (or "Pure Edition") that I will be getting this won't be the case since it won't be touched by the carrier .

 

[raino]

Luckily with the Moto X Style (or "Pure Edition") that I will be getting this won't be the case since it won't be touched by the carrier .

What do you mean by 'touched?' IIRC, the Moto E wasn't sold/supported by TMO either, yet they overreached and had its band 12 disabled.

 

[Almeuit]

What do you mean by 'touched?' IIRC, the Moto E wasn't sold/supported by TMO either, yet they overreached and had its band 12 disabled.

I mean no bloat or anything -- won't even be sold by T-Mobile. The only way I could see it being disabled would have to be Motorola putting it in the software to disable if on T-Mobile.

 

[raino]

I mean no bloat or anything -- won't even be sold by T-Mobile.

Gotcha. But there's still a possibility--a large one, given the situation with Moto E--that TMO could ask Motorola to disable band 12 again.

 

[Shilohcane]

Gotcha. But there's still a possibility--a large one, given the situation with Moto E--that TMO could ask Motorola to disable band 12 again.

T-Mobile doesn't have the right or the ability to tell Motorola to disable band 12. Only the FCC could order Motorola to disable a phone's band. T-Mobile doesn't own Band 12 or more specificity the 700Mhz Block A spectrum. The 700Mhz Block A spectrum is also licences to US Cellular and Cspire among the larger networks. The 700Mhz Block A spectrum is also licences to many small regional networks and communication companies as well as small rural cooperatives with networks. In fact even AT&T is licensed with 700Mhz Block A spectrum in Myrtle Beach, SC where they are doing testing on their Multiple Frequency Band Indicator (MFBI)

When AT&T finally settled with the FCC over the 700Mhz interoperability issue in 2013 that limited the equipment of Band 12, AT&T agreed in 2013 to deploy the MFBI feature in its network by Sept. 30, 2015.

 

[raino]

T-Mobile doesn't have the right or the ability to tell Motorola to disable band 12.

Here you go: http://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/39j0qb/psa_motos_51_update_to_the_2015_moto_e_disables/

 

[Shilohcane]

Here you go: http://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/39j0qb/psa_motos_51_update_to_the_2015_moto_e_disables/

Yeah. They can't put anything on the Internet that isn't true... cue the commercial. Give me a break what does some post that has no proof they were ever on Band 12 in the first place have to do with proving T-Mobile has ordered Moto to disable Band 12?

How is he sure he was ever using Band 12 on T-Mobile in the first place since only a few phones have the true ability to display what Band it is using (Mainly Samsung and Nexus 6). Also, as much as I love Cellmapper and LTE Discover App they aren't 100% correct at identifying which Band your phone is using.

It is telling that US Cellular that also uses 700Mhz Block A for LTE also isn't selling the Moto G 3rd Gen. Again, if Moto had anything turned off it would have been the FCC that forced Moto to do it. Since Verizon Band 13 and AT&T Band 17 are subsets of Band 12 there are a lot of filter issues that are being worked out in software on the phones so they don't interfere with other networks.

 

[raino]

Yeah. They can't put anything on the Internet that isn't true... cue the commercial. Give me a break what does some post that has no proof they were ever on Band 12 in the first place have to do with proving T-Mobile has ordered Moto to disable Band 12?

Here you go, does the reply from a Motorola Forums Manager make the internet more believable for you: https://forums.motorola.com/posts/ecb8265dfc?page=2

Or how about this: Motorola, T-Mobile, Give Moto E Its LTE Band 12 Back: Page 8

And you may like to read the comments here as well: List: All current T-Mobile 700MHz band 12 LTE compatible smartphones » TmoNews

Do you have any of the phones mentioned (Moto E, Moto G, Zenfone 2) to personally refute the claim? Or better yet, can you find us a denial from TMO? BTW, I wasn't the first to point out this b12 disabling in this thread, so you may want to read the whole thread again.

 

[UDPGuy]

Luckily with the Moto X Style (or "Pure Edition") that I will be getting this won't be the case since it won't be touched by the carrier .

Band 12 will probably disable when you put a sin card in it. Just like they do in the previous models

Posted via Nexus 6 with unlimited international data via AT&T

 

[Almeuit]

Band 12 will probably disable when you put a sin card in it. Just like they do in the previous models

Posted via Nexus 6 with unlimited international data via AT&T

We shall see . It wouldn't matter too much for me anyway due to no band 12 where I am at .. except Orlando IIRC.

 

[Shilohcane]

Here you go, does the reply from a Motorola Forums Manager make the internet more believable for you: https://forums.motorola.com/posts/ecb8265dfc?page=2

Or how about this: Motorola, T-Mobile, Give Moto E Its LTE Band 12 Back: Page 8

And you may like to read the comments here as well: List: All current T-Mobile 700MHz band 12 LTE compatible smartphones » TmoNews

Do you have any of the phones mentioned (Moto E, Moto G, Zenfone 2) to personally refute the claim? Or better yet, can you find us a denial from TMO? BTW, I wasn't the first to point out this b12 disabling in this thread, so you may want to read the whole thread again.

OK this is the first I have heard of it and I believe it. T-Mobile can disable devices on their network but they still can't make Motorola disable Band 12 if they aren't on T-Mobile which was my point. With this statement it makes senses why T-Mobile won't support that phone on Band 12, "On non-VoLTE phones like the MOTO E, your phone could even show you have a signal, but would be unable to complete a call. "

I can see why T-Mobile won't allow it if the phone won't disconnect from Band 12 and won't be able to make a phone call where Band 12 is the strongest spectrum. Band 12 on T-Mobile is always LTE and that phone won't switch from Band 12 areas to Band 4 or 2 to make a phone call. Seems like Motorola needs to make a better phone that meets the industry standards.

T-Mobiles CTO Neville Ray has said his goal is to make T-Mobile into a 100% LTE network as fast as he can. GSM's 2G days are moving in a direction of going the way of 1G Analog signal and be sunset sometime in the future. Glad to see T-Mobile is moving people to phones that will support their new technology like VoLTE, VoWiFi and the over-the-top Rich Communication Services.

Today their are about 20+ phones that supports T-Mobile Band 12 and VoLTE with new phones like the iPhone 6s coming soon. Since VoWiFi is carrier specific it cost T-Mobile a lot of money to software update the phone to use VoWiFi. Motorola should try to start working with T-Mobile like Apple did to keep their phones up to date with the new technology and it looks like the Moto 2015 Pure Edition will meet the T-Mobile standards.

 

[Shilohcane]

Or how about this: Motorola, T-Mobile, Give Moto E Its LTE Band 12 Back: Page 8

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This quote from that link tells you the reason is the Moto E doesn't work in all cases on the T-Mobile network with Band 12. With T-Mobile using Band 12 in a lot of rural areas like the Dakotas this would be a real issue when a phone has a LTE signal on Band 12 and yet won't make a phone call.

The reason, Motorola argues, is that the Moto E does not support VoLTE, and T-Mobile is only allowing VoLTE-capable phones to use LTE Band 12. T-Mobile, according to Motorola, argues that if a phone had a strong LTE Band 12 signal – but no UMTS or GSM signal, that the phone would hold onto the strong LTE Band 12 signal and not be able to make a phone call. Also, Verizon and Sprint have similar LTE issues like this.

This is actually not isolated to Band 12. This happens quite a bit on non-VoLTE phones today with other LTE bands – and on CDMA/LTE hybrid carriers like Verizon Wireless and Sprint. If the phone only has an LTE signal, it may not make or receive a voice call if that secondary signal is out of range.

It appears T-Mobile is really concerned that someone in a rural area might see five bars of LTE signal, and think that their phone is capable of making/receiving calls, when it in fact isn’t.

 

[raino]

This quote from that link tells you the reason is the Moto E doesn't work in all cases on the T-Mobile network with Band 12. With T-Mobile using Band 12 in a lot of rural areas like the Dakotas this would be a real issue when a phone has a LTE signal on Band 12 and yet won't make a phone call.

Well yeah...it doesn't have voLTE because TMO chose to not carry this phone (how is that not anti-competitive, not giving Motorola voLTE and then asking them to disable band 12 everywhere because TMO doesn't have a lower network around and/or perhaps doesn't want to pay for roaming in some places?)

From the same link:

this could easily be resolved by adding VoLTE. The second-generation Moto E is a Qualcomm Snapdragon 400 smartphone – and could easily handle the T-Mobile VoLTE stack. It appears this was a marketing decision to position the Moto E as a lower-cost device, and try to push VoLTE-interested consumers into more expensive devices. Indeed, under normal circumstances, devices like the LG Leon are more expensive than the second-gen Moto E on T-Mobile.

Uncarrier indeed.

Why is it Motorola--or any other OEM's--problem if voLTE doesn't work for everyone on band 12, as long as the OEMs provide a way to turn it off (which can be as basic as facilitating a hand-off to a lower, non-LTE network for calls?) They aren't marketing this phone specifically for TMO, are they?

BTW, TMO owns PCS block B&C licenses in the Dakotas. Now if they choose not to build towers there or provision them as non-LTE or whatever, again, that's not an OEM's fault.