Majority of Android phones are not "junk" phones

[LeoRex]

Touchwiz is still here because Samsung executives have deluded themselves into thinking Touchwiz is an Asset...it's not. If anything it's a liability. Their hardware is that good that it can compensate for this pollution

Yep... there was a study just sent out that talked about all the crud that Samsung dumps into their phones.... While Samsung will tout how many users use it, they were counting 'activations'... where a user clicked on something and launched it for the first time. Turns out that most everyone (I think it was something ridiculously in the high 90%'s) stops using them after a couple of tries because a) they kind of suck and b) there are several, well-established alternatives that are readily available.

They buy Samsung because they have a reputation of making a good phone. If their prowess for software development (there's no sarcasm text formatting) had any real impact, they'd be a footnote....

(in an attempt to get things a little back on topic and away from the WP/Android clash)

That being said, I think the Moto line, in particular the E and G lines might pose more of a problem for Apple than one would expect. The top shelf smartphone market is saturated.... And while Apple has done a great job of introducing a paradox to their users - Your iPhone is AWESOME!!!!! But here's a new one that you have to buy TODAY or your a total loser - The only place to get real growth now is the emerging markets.... And if a company can offer an excellent, low cost phone.... which both the G and E most certainly are, Apple is going to have a hell of a time convincing people that their phone is worth 5 times the price (which it isn't, but that's besides the point). We have never seen ANYTHING along the lines of those two phones... not even close.

 

[A895]

Yep... there was a study just sent out that talked about all the crud that Samsung dumps into their phones.... While Samsung will tout how many users use it, they were counting 'activations'... where a user clicked on something and launched it for the first time. Turns out that most everyone (I think it was something ridiculously in the high 90%'s) stops using them after a couple of tries because a) they kind of suck and b) there are several, well-established alternatives that are readily available.

They buy Samsung because they have a reputation of making a good phone. If their prowess for software development (there's no sarcasm text formatting) had any real impact, they'd be a footnote....

(in an attempt to get things a little back on topic and away from the WP/Android clash)

That being said, I think the Moto line, in particular the E and G lines might pose more of a problem for Apple than one would expect. The top shelf smartphone market is saturated.... And while Apple has done a great job of introducing a paradox to their users - Your iPhone is AWESOME!!!!! But here's a new one that you have to buy TODAY or your a total loser - The only place to get real growth now is the emerging markets.... And if a company can offer an excellent, low cost phone.... which both the G and E most certainly are, Apple is going to have a hell of a time convincing people that their phone is worth 5 times the price (which it isn't, but that's besides the point). We have never seen ANYTHING along the lines of those two phones... not even close.

Well the Moto G/E and the iPhone target two different demographics you know that right?

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[LeoRex]

Well the Moto G/E and the iPhone target two different demographics you know that right?

True... but that massive growth that Apple floated upon is going to dry up as that top end dries up. It wasn't that long ago that the majority of customers (at least here in the US) still had 'feature' phones. As they transitioned to smartphones, we saw HUGE growth.. units sold, profits... etc... as those transitioning users are drying up, it becomes more maintenance (replacing older models). While there is money to be made there, it's a small slice when compared.

Apple needs people to buy their overly marked phones for them to keep rolling in cash..... and internationally, they are going to have a harder time convincing customers to pony up piles of cash for an iPhone when there is an excellent phone, like the Moto E, G or even X sitting there. Most all of the Android nameplates offer less expensive, yet capable, phones to compliment their top shelf stuff. Those 'value' lines are VASTLY improved over their counterparts from a couple of years ago.... Back then, reviews would say "Only buy this if you absolutely can't afford otherwise." Now, it is a completely different story.

What does Apple do? They take the outgoing model, wrap it in plastic, discount it a couple of bucks and make it out as the end-all. I don't think that is going to continue to work as well as it had once had.

 

[A895]

True... but that massive growth that Apple floated upon is going to dry up as that top end dries up. It wasn't that long ago that the majority of customers (at least here in the US) still had 'feature' phones. As they transitioned to smartphones, we saw HUGE growth.. units sold, profits... etc... as those transitioning users are drying up, it becomes more maintenance (replacing older models). While there is money to be made there, it's a small slice when compared.

Apple needs people to buy their overly marked phones for them to keep rolling in cash..... and internationally, they are going to have a harder time convincing customers to pony up piles of cash for an iPhone when there is an excellent phone, like the Moto E, G or even X sitting there. Most all of the Android nameplates offer less expensive, yet capable, phones to compliment their top shelf stuff. Those 'value' lines are VASTLY improved over their counterparts from a couple of years ago.... Back then, reviews would say "Only buy this if you absolutely can't afford otherwise." Now, it is a completely different story.

What does Apple do? They take the outgoing model, wrap it in plastic, discount it a couple of bucks and make it out as the end-all. I don't think that is going to continue to work as well as it had once had.

I mean eventually they will have to change (2-3 years from now) but for now they still make a ton off of their current model.

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[JeffDenver]

Yep... there was a study just sent out that talked about all the crud that Samsung dumps into their phones....

Here is the study.

As Samsung Electronics's005930.SE -1.05% best-selling smartphones face increasing competition from a horde of Chinese lookalikes, one of the South Korean giant’s key goals has been to translate demand for its devices into interest for Samsung’s homegrown software and services.

But a new study shows how far the company still has to go.

Strategy Analytics, a Newton, Mass.-based research firm, said in a report Tuesday that U.S. users of Samsung’s devices spend little time on its own messaging, music and voice-activated applications including apps like ChatON, the South Korean company’s answer to services like WhatsApp, Line and Viber.

The report said that U.S. users of Samsung’s Galaxy S3 and S4 smartphones logged an average of six seconds per month using ChatON, compared to more than 11 hours per month on Facebook and about two hours per month on Instagram.

The Strategy Analytics study tracked more than 250 U.S. users of the Galaxy S3 and S4 and their use of apps last month. On average, users spent just seven minutes during the month on an array of Samsung apps — including ChatON, voice-activated search app S Voice and app store Samsung Hub. By contrast, they spent an average of 149 minutes on just three apps by software partner GoogleGOOGL +1.96% — its app store Play Store, video-watching site YouTube and its flagship search engine.

Study: Samsung’s Apps Are Ubiquitous but Unloved - Digits - WSJ

 

[LeoRex]

Good... this is bascially part of Samsung's long term goal of disconnecting from Google's Android and moving to their own platform... of course, this would probably be disastrous for Samsung. While most users see Android through their eyes... if they ran Tizen, it would probably push users away.

I think this is the real driving force behind Android Silver. Google wants their logo, and the Android name plastered all over the place at point of sale.... Why do you think Google all of a sudden forced people to put "Powered By Android" on their bootloaders? I think their patience with Samsung's hamfisted fumbling of their platform has run dry.

I mean, even though Motorola is going over to Lenovo, do you think that either Motorola or Lenovo is going to alter the Moto formula? They're selling phones again, and sellilng a TON of them... so at least SOMEONE figured out that if you put Android on a phone and don't pour a dumptruck full of garbage on top, you don't need a top of the line processor to run well.

 

[A895]

Good... this is bascially part of Samsung's long term goal of disconnecting from Google's Android and moving to their own platform... of course, this would probably be disastrous for Samsung. While most users see Android through their eyes... if they ran Tizen, it would probably push users away.

I think this is the real driving force behind Android Silver. Google wants their logo, and the Android name plastered all over the place at point of sale.... Why do you think Google all of a sudden forced people to put "Powered By Android" on their bootloaders? I think their patience with Samsung's hamfisted fumbling of their platform has run dry.

I mean, even though Motorola is going over to Lenovo, do you think that either Motorola or Lenovo is going to alter the Moto formula? They're selling phones again, and sellilng a TON of them... so at least SOMEONE figured out that if you put Android on a phone and don't pour a dumptruck full of garbage on top, you don't need a top of the line processor to run well.

You are speculating. Samsung ain't leaving Android anytime soon. Tizen is not even out yet.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[LeoRex]

You are speculating. Samsung ain't leaving Android anytime soon. Tizen is not even out yet.

Of COURSE I'm speculating.... But Tizen isn't that far off. They are going to unleash it upon unsuspecting customers in Russia and India. Since Europe, Japan and all said "Yeah... er... that's cool and all... maybe later, ok?", and it's be DOA here in the States, that doesn't leave a lot of options.

But that is exactly what Samsung is after. They want out of Android, but can't figure out a way to do it.... because to do so would require them to convince users to accept their software platform. Now, I haven't used Tizen, but I can only draw conclusions based on their home-grown apps: they aren't good and all have superior alternatives (mostly from Google). So a Samsung sourced OS? Meh...

I am guessing that they're only hope is to get a foothold in areas where people have no clue (and nothing like the Moto E/G to compare to).. .Guessing that's Russia and India.

 

[A895]

Of COURSE I'm speculating.... But Tizen isn't that far off. They are going to unleash it upon unsuspecting customers in Russia and India. Since Europe, Japan and all said "Yeah... er... that's cool and all... maybe later, ok?", and it's be DOA here in the States, that doesn't leave a lot of options.

But that is exactly what Samsung is after. They want out of Android, but can't figure out a way to do it.... because to do so would require them to convince users to accept their software platform. Now, I haven't used Tizen, but I can only draw conclusions based on their home-grown apps: they aren't good and all have superior alternatives (mostly from Google). So a Samsung sourced OS? Meh...

I am guessing that they're only hope is to get a foothold in areas where people have no clue (and nothing like the Moto E/G to compare to).. .Guessing that's Russia and India.

Are you a Samsung insider? Because otherwise nothing you said is beyond a wild speculation.

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[pappy53]

...but probably not as smooth as a Nexus 5. And the Nexus hardware in technically inferior to the S5.

Probably smoother than a Nexus 5.

 

[LeoRex]

Are you a Samsung insider? Because otherwise nothing you said is beyond a wild speculation.

So I'm the only one with this crackpot theory that Samsung is positioning themselves to try to replace Android on their devices with Tizen? That it showed up on their new wearables and they are trying to roll out Tizen-based phones in various markets... nothing to see here....

 

[A895]

So I'm the only one with this crackpot theory that Samsung is positioning themselves to try to replace Android on their devices with Tizen? That it showed up on their new wearables and they are trying to roll out Tizen-based phones in various markets... nothing to see here....

You are right nothing to see here. If anything they want to build Tizen up before going all in with it. We don't even have Tizen phones on the market yet.

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[JeffDenver]

Probably smoother than a Nexus 5.

No one else seems to agree. Actually, people are complaining about the S5 being laggy. Got this from a casual google search.

Despite the crisper fit and finish, Samsung still hasn't fixed some of the deeper software problems. The phone is running the 2.5GHz quad-core Snapdragon 801, which means it should by rights be the fastest phone you can buy. It's not. The S5 still suffers from stutters and lag during operations as simple as scrolling between home screens, opening your app drawer, and even loading apps.
Samsung Galaxy S5 Review: Less Is So Much More

Some users have reported that the Galaxy S5 suffers from lags due to the heavy TouchWiz UI
Samsung Galaxy S5 Major Issues and Solutions: Slow Camera, Camera Failed, Download Booster, Lags or Stutters - International Business Times

However, I'm not a fan of the plastic design, cartoonish app icons, slight lag in responsiveness compared to the One (M8), and long extensive new settings area.
Samsung Galaxy S5 first take: Can it trump the new HTC One? | ZDNet

Phonebook and contacts app still lags, thank TouchWiz for that. Can you believe that TouchWiz still stutters here and there? Even with the newest and most powerful quad-core Snapdragon 801 system chip on board.
The dark side of the Samsung Galaxy S5: 5 (plus one) mighty annoying features

I can tell you the Nexus 5 does not suffer from this (or any) lag at all, even completely stock. You do not have to tweak it or install special apps to get rid of lag, because there is none there to begin with.

Heh found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQDcfrBS6-c

Just...no. The Nexus 5 is SO much faster than that it is not even funny. The S5 has more RAM and a better CPU...it should be much much faster than this.

 

[JeffDenver]

So I'm the only one with this crackpot theory that Samsung is positioning themselves to try to replace Android on their devices with Tizen? That it showed up on their new wearables and they are trying to roll out Tizen-based phones in various markets... nothing to see here....

Of course they would like to. Thats not the question. The question is WILL they.

The answer is...probably not. Simply because they are not stupid. They do understand the value of Android from a brand loyalty standpoint if nothing else...people know what Android is. No one knows what Tizen or Touchwiz is.

They could overcome that if Tizen introduced something new and cool, but that is not the case. Tizen has a laundry list of "Me too" features encased in a UI that, frankly, is not going to be that appealing to most people anyway. Thats why there is nothing to see here. Blackberry and Windows Phone have a better chance of catching on than Samsung's awful Tizen oS.

 

[JeffDenver]

But that is exactly what Samsung is after. They want out of Android, but can't figure out a way to do it.... because to do so would require them to convince users to accept their software platform.

No one is going to accept their platform unless it can do something new that the competing platforms cannot (and maybe not even then). Even Windows Phone at least has a novel UI and can run on extremely low end hardware well...what does Tizen do that is special? Until you can answer that, I think it is safe to assume by default that they will fail.

Simply being different is not going to be enough. Not in 2014.

 

[LeoRex]

No one is going to accept their platform unless it can do something new that the competing platforms cannot (and maybe not even then). Even Windows Phone at least has a novel UI and can run on extremely low end hardware well...what does Tizen do that is special? Until you can answer that, I think it is safe to assume by default that they will fail.

Exactly.. and I agree that it would be a disaster, agree 100%... But apparently the people at Samsung thing differently because they are already putting out feelers.... Granted, there isn't a Tizen phone out there now (just wearables). In tech-savy markets like Europe and Japan, they floated the idea to carriers, but in both regions, their advances were swatted away. And near as I can tell, they didn't even look at the US... I guess they figured that trying to get into Android, iOS and Windows's home turf wouldn't go over all that well (go figure). So at least, at some level, Sammy recognizes that.

But even with that hanging over the platform's head, they aren't abandoning it... they are trying to move forward in other, emerging markets where the climate might be a little different and people would rather have a lower-spec'd smartphone in their hands rather than look at cost-prohibitive powerhouse on a billboard. Though, even that might end up not being so welcoming now that you have someone like Motorola putting out sub $200 phones that are actually pretty good even when you don't take price into consideration, and absolutely great if you do.

Looking at the heavily biased article in the OP... The days of automatically calling a sub-$200 smartphone "junk" are in our rearview mirror. Of course, the author of the article seems to hold on to the idea that anything that doesn't have an Apple logo on the back automatically means it's junk, but that is kind of expected.

 

[JeffDenver]

Exactly.. and I agree that it would be a disaster, agree 100%... But apparently the people at Samsung thing differently because they are already putting out feelers....

If they really thought differently they would be doing more than putting out feelers. At best I think they are looking at this as a supplement, not a replacement.

And Android is actually far more entrenched in the rest of the world than it is in the US.

 

[pappy53]

No one else seems to agree. Actually, people are complaining about the S5 being laggy. Got this from a casual google search.



I can tell you the Nexus 5 does not suffer from this (or any) lag at all, even completely stock. You do not have to tweak it or install special apps to get rid of lag, because there is none there to begin with.

Heh found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQDcfrBS6-c

Just...no. The Nexus 5 is SO much faster than that it is not even funny. The S5 has more RAM and a better CPU...it should be much much faster than this.

Sorry, I misread it. I was talking about the 5s.

 

[JeffDenver]

Sorry, I misread it. I was talking about the 5s.

The Nexus 5 is faster than that too.

 

[pappy53]

The Nexus 5 is faster than that too.

In your opinion.