Man those guys in the head phone forums are rough

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Jerry, can you provide a link to these benchmarks?

Here's one that clearly has the V20 as the top dog (click on audio output):
LG V20 Benchmarks

I'm not talking about volume.

The HTC 10 and V10 are very close in frequency response and dynamic range. Close enough that moving the cable will change which one scores better when benchmarking.

The HTC 10 barely beats it when looking at stereo crosstalk and overall noise. But it beats it consistently.

THD is clearly better on the V10, so i say it "wins" benchmarks.

The V20 scores slightly lower in all tests, using the exact same equipment and audio files on the same day at the same time (+/- 5 minutes) here.

These are benchmarks, and only mean so much. All three of these phones perform well enough that to my ears, there is no difference when listening to generated tones at several different frequencies. none. I can;t find any even if i try hard. They all reproduce sound better than my ears can pick up.

When it comes to listening to music, the V10 is better for clean music that emphasises the mids or trebles. The HTC 10 is better for more dirty sounds. the HTC 10 sounds "bigger" so I wish this was reversed

I imagine the V20 will sound as good or better with my headphones and some music once the amp gets some burn time.

Overall, I think the V10 is still the best of the three for listening to music. But the software running on it makes me use the HTC 10 instead.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

<snip>

For the V20 that ratio is extremely low (around 0.0019%) thanks to four DACs pipelined in the chipset.

I see THD numbers upwards of .0050 here with the V20. With the same source for testing, the HTC 10 is in the .0040 range and the V10 is in the .0020 range.

For everyone else here, we're nitpicking. You'll probably not notice the difference. Sorry to hijack your thread.

 

[irvine752]

I see THD numbers upwards of .0050 here with the V20. With the same source for testing, the HTC 10 is in the .0040 range and the V10 is in the .0020 range.

For everyone else here, we're nitpicking. You'll probably not notice the difference. Sorry to hijack your thread.

That number I gave you is from the Sound Forge screenshots. Those are actual measurements of the output. The spec sheet of the chipset has the THD even rated much even lower. Please share a link to your findings. I would love to see the test parameters.

When manufacturers design these phones, the idea is keep on improving on what they have already. The improvements also tend to be very minimal at best. The V10 is a great, but it can't compete with the newer chipset in the V20 otherwise that would go against the paradigm shift.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

That number I gave you is from the Sound Forge screenshots. Those are actual measurements of the output. The spec sheet of the chipset has the THD even rated much even lower. Please share a link to your findings. I would love to see the test parameters.

When manufacturers design these phones, the idea is keep on improving on what they have already. The improvements also tend to be very minimal at best. The V10 is a great, but it can't compete with the newer chipset in the V20 otherwise that would go against the paradigm shift.

Not trying to speak for Jerry, but he has listed his testing methodology in a blog post before. He doesn't need to link to anything, he runs the tests himself.

Also, you can't go based on spec sheets. Rarely do things perform in the real world like they do on spec sheets.

 

[irvine752]

Not trying to speak for Jerry, but he has listed his testing methodology in a blog post before. He doesn't need to link to anything, he runs the tests himself.

Also, you can't go based on spec sheets. Rarely do things perform in the real world like they do on spec sheets.

The tests have been done before...much like how we have had this discussion before. I even have screenshots posted in the old thread. There's not much to debate...the proof is in the pudding.

As for posting links, that needs to be done to provide any sort of credibility. Writing a blog doesn't make you a credible source of information.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

The tests have been done before...much like how we have had this discussion before. I even have screenshots posted in the old thread. There's not much to debate...the proof is in the pudding.

As for posting links, that needs to be done to provide any sort of credibility. Writing a blog doesn't make you a credible source of information.

In the case of Android Central, yes it does. When it spells out the testing criteria and keeps it equal for all devices it makes it a valid test. It's not based on a spec sheet or manufacturer quoted numbers.

A link, TO A BLOG, by your definition, does not make it credible. Jerry ran the tests himself. That makes his tests far more valid than any data you have provided. Just going based on what you said, "Writing a blog doesn't make you a credible source of information".

 

[irvine752]

In the case of Android Central, yes it does. When it spells out the testing criteria and keeps it equal for all devices it makes it a valid test. It's not based on a spec sheet or manufacturer quoted numbers.

A link, TO A BLOG, by your definition, does not make it credible. Jerry ran the tests himself. That makes his tests far more valid than any data you have provided. Just going based on what you said, "Writing a blog doesn't make you a credible source of information".

Please take a look at the reference post before going off on a tangent. Nobody quoted anything from the spec. Why are you trying so hard to support Jerry? Can we let Jerry speak for himself? lol

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

That number I gave you is from the Sound Forge screenshots. Those are actual measurements of the output. The spec sheet of the chipset has the THD even rated much even lower. Please share a link to your findings. I would love to see the test parameters.

When manufacturers design these phones, the idea is keep on improving on what they have already. The improvements also tend to be very minimal at best. The V10 is a great, but it can't compete with the newer chipset in the V20 otherwise that would go against the paradigm shift.

Your post bringing up the spec sheet.

 

[irvine752]

Your post bringing up the spec sheet.

Do you see any numbers or anything quoted from the spec sheet? lol

 

[Ranny99]

Sorry, I thought I had posted earlier, the test that put the Axon 7 top, had the v20 as best earphone output but the speakers edged it for the Axon 7.

 

[irvine752]

Sorry, I thought I had posted earlier, the test that put the Axon 7 top, had the v20 as best earphone output but the speakers edged it for the Axon 7.

That sounds right.

 

[tadpoles]

Sorry, I thought I had posted earlier, the test that put the Axon 7 top, had the v20 as best earphone output but the speakers edged it for the Axon 7.

That definitely sounds right. The Axon's speakers are to be commended. I was reading Jerry's post above noting that the V10 beat the V20 in audio (THD+S/N). That's not hard to believe. I currently have both and honestly, honesty cannot discern a difference between the two with the cans I have. They both sound nice but to be honest, neither sounds as full and rewarding as my Burson Audio Solosist and HA-160D headphone amps. For phones though? They sound great but so does my husbands iPhone 7 Plus.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Do you see any numbers or anything quoted from the spec sheet? lol

You used the spec sheet as evidence of it being better.

 

[Ry]

Just an FYI.

Jerry tests the HTC 10: http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-10-audio-testing-boomsound-evolved

Here's how Jerry tests audio: http://forums.androidcentral.com/be...-android-phone-audio-benchmarking-thread.html

 

[Mike Dee]

That definitely sounds right. The Axon's speakers are to be commended. I was reading Jerry's post above noting that the V10 beat the V20 in audio (THD+S/N). That's not hard to believe. I currently have both and honestly, honesty cannot discern a difference between the two with the cans I have. They both sound nice but to be honest, neither sounds as full and rewarding as my Burson Audio Solosist and HA-160D headphone amps. For phones though? They sound great but so does my husbands iPhone 7 Plus.

You haven't actually heard the V20 amp kick in though have you? It really kicks tail once you are in high impedance mode.

 

[Mike Dee]

I see THD numbers upwards of .0050 here with the V20. With the same source for testing, the HTC 10 is in the .0040 range and the V10 is in the .0020 range.

For everyone else here, we're nitpicking. You'll probably not notice the difference. Sorry to hijack your thread.

Jerry... Do you have an opinion on these?
http://north-america.beyerdynamic.c...nd-stage/studio-headphones/custom-studio.html
They are 80 ohms, compared a lot to the DT 770s and some people actually like them better. I can get them for about 199

 

[irvine752]

You used the spec sheet as evidence of it being better.

You're still missing the point....Jerry posted a specific number which was much worse than what I had in the sound forge screenshots. The spec sheet reference was not the premise of the argument.*

Similar data can be seen on:
https://youtu.be/SI1qntIdCeI

 

[Aquila]

Reading through a lot of articles on the sound quality of these devices and apparently the HTC 10 might still be the actual champ on quality. The V20 and V10 are pushing a lot of power, but quite a reviewers and authors are putting the HTC 10 as the top on sound quality.

 

[irvine752]

Reading through a lot of articles on the sound quality of these devices and apparently the HTC 10 might still be the actual champ on quality. The V20 and V10 are pushing a lot of power, but quite a reviewers and authors are putting the HTC 10 as the top on sound quality.

It depends on how you define quality. What metrics are they using to define quality?

Edit:
Here's an interesting article comparing the V20 sound quality with the Astell & Kern 240 together with the HTC 10:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/articles/lg-v20-quad-dac-how-it-works/

 

[Mike Dee]

You guys are killing me.