MS Surface -big fail or serious competitor?

[mr_nobody]

This is one reason why android tablets don't even have a chance of reaching the sales numbers apple achieves and why I don't think MS can do much better.

Guess you missed this:

Device Ownership | Project for Excellence in Journalism (PEJ)

Guess that apple guy who was up on stage the other day missed it too...

 

[thundersome]

No I hadn't seen that. It's interesting but I am going to ignore the "survey" and just focus on the actual sales numbers as reported in the cbs link. And in that link I'm also going to ignore the projected sales numbers for 2012 since I'm pretty sure they were pulled straight out of Gartner's ass. For 2011 apple owned 2/3rds of the market. Now the android part is quite a lot of sales but it still had less than a third of the market and remember that's split between many many oems and different models and even sizes. I'm sure Android has taken more of a share in 2012 but I'm not going to rely on estimates. Microsoft could do okay but like I said again the price point is a major detractor and I don't think there will be a large variety or large differentiation between oem models at least for a year or two. And by that point Apple and Google will have cemented themselves as the No. 1/2 in the tablet market and everyone else will be vying for 3rd place (just like the phone market).

 

[crackberrytraitor]

The surface will be awesome. Not the RT, but the proper one. Anyone who thinks it will fail probably doesn't do real work/multitasking with a PC.

Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums

 

[jtskier11]

Remember the Zune?? Oh wait............

 

[dmmarck]

The surface will be awesome. Not the RT, but the proper one. Anyone who thinks it will fail probably doesn't do real work/multitasking with a PC.

Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums

I don't think that's true at all. I think it has a chance of failing because the hardware venture is a massive, massive risk for MS. So is W8.

 

[anon(924308)]

Remember the Zune?? Oh wait............

Zune was just essentially a "knockoff iPod". I'm sure it was more flexible than the iPod, but it didn't have iTunes. The Surface is the first widely-hyped product of its kind--something that bridges the gap between laptop and tablet by having a full-featured desktop mode. I mean, even if there are some desktop Android devices out there, you can't run any major programs on them like MS Office or Photoshop.

The Surface RT is destined to fail. $600 (assuming you get the keyboard) for a tablet with a weak app market, no desktop feature, etc? If anyone wants a Surface, I'm sure they'd just go for the Pro.

Since the Pro is the 'first of its kind', it won't really have direct product competition. I'm sure there are at least a handful of enthusiasts willing to pay $1000 for it. You'd have to really want that desktop feature to pay that much, though..

 

[GMJeff]

I don't think that's true at all. I think it has a chance of failing because the hardware venture is a massive, massive risk for MS. So is W8.

Of course it is a risk for them. They are new to the tablet market, but not to the phone market (windows mobile). In that market with windows phone, they are in a catch 22 where they need larger developers to help the platform succeed, but the developers will not come because the platform is young and volatile.

People don't remember that microsoft has a war chest that is bursting at the seams. They can throw money at a project hand over fist if they want, ala the xbox. The xbox was hemmoraging money until they made the right changes to make it a money maker. The zune could have been the same, but they decided to scrap it for a converged device called windows phone.

I can see windows phone becoming a contender as long as they keep their relationship with Nokia. That name alone will sell millions of phones worldwide, not just in America. All they have to do is make a windows phone that is on the same level as some of their european models, the world outside of the US will buy it. It looks like the Lumia is getting close with the new 920.

Give them time. If nothing else, history shows that Microsoft doesn't play to lose.

Note2 or Note10, that is the question

 

[swyost]

What do you guys think?

Why does anyone here care? They are not targeting the same market segment and even if they were, there are lots of products on the market. BTW, they really did sell out of pre-orders in three days and are trying to fill orders for Friday by having them ship directly from the Chinese factory. That tends to confirm that they have run through all of their initial online stock run that was in the US. I know that as a fact because I had a unit get lost in transit before it ever got out of China. It ships with Office; a bunch of the heavy hitter apps are live or are rolling out over the next couple days; is designed to multi-task; is multi-user enabled; comes with double the memory of any Android tablet; and has a MicroSDXC slot (what slot does that Nexus 7 have?). It seems like something people might want to consider if it suits their needs. In reality though why does it matter in any way to people here whether someone else buys a Surface tablet, one of the other RT or Pro tablets (there are a bunch hitting the market Friday), an iPad, a PlayBook, or any of the barely Android Kindles?

 

[TomsAndroid]

In think that it will be a generation or two before Microsoft sorts out pricing, features and design. This first lot doesn't look bad but like any device, they aren't perfect. As W8 grows though, so will these devices.

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

[thundersome]

Why does anyone here care? They are not targeting the same market segment and even if they were, there are lots of products on the market. BTW, they really did sell out of pre-orders in three days and are trying to fill orders for Friday by having them ship directly from the Chinese factory. That tends to confirm that they have run through all of their initial online stock run that was in the US. I know that as a fact because I had a unit get lost in transit before it ever got out of China. It ships with Office; a bunch of the heavy hitter apps are live or are rolling out over the next couple days; is designed to multi-task; is multi-user enabled; comes with double the memory of any Android tablet; and has a MicroSDXC slot (what slot does that Nexus 7 have?). It seems like something people might want to consider if it suits their needs. In reality though why does it matter in any way to people here whether someone else buys a Surface tablet, one of the other RT or Pro tablets (there are a bunch hitting the market Friday), an iPad, a PlayBook, or any of the barely Android Kindles?

No one cares if someone else here is buying the surface. We're discussing the tablet, if we do or do not like it and why we believe it will or will not be a success. I don't see what you're complaining about.

 

[JustinMueller8810]

I read an article saying that it's basically a big flop but has potential.

 

[a1kemist]

Remember the Zune?? Oh wait............

I still use my zune HD and like it. I don't need to play games on an mp3 player. I don't need a store to put music on there, I can think for myself.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums

 

[crackberrytraitor]

I don't think that's true at all. I think it has a chance of failing because the hardware venture is a massive, massive risk for MS. So is W8.

The hardware will be by far the best of any tablet. It will also be the most functional for actual work and have the largest ecosystem of any mobile device on day 1. And it's not like they're going to end up with unsold hardware. They'll start with small batches and see how they sell. If it's a flop they'll only lose on R&D. And honestly, if you don't think Win8 will be successful, I don't think you understand Microsoft's tactics. Every new PC will come preloaded with Windows 8. In a couple years, it will be on everything. This same drama played out in 2009, with people saying they were going to keep xp and not upgrade to 7.

Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums

 

[dmmarck]

The hardware will be by far the best of any tablet. It will also be the most functional for actual work and have the largest ecosystem of any mobile device on day 1. And it's not like they're going to end up with unsold hardware. They'll start with small batches and see how they sell. If it's a flop they'll only lose on R&D. And honestly, if you don't think Win8 will be successful, I don't think you understand Microsoft's tactics. Every new PC will come preloaded with Windows 8. In a couple years, it will be on everything. This same drama played out in 2009, with people saying they were going to keep xp and not upgrade to 7.

Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums

It depends on how you read success. Financially, bundling W8 with new machines is brilliant. However, that does not mean that the OS itself--bundled economics aside--is a success. Heck, several reviews (Giz, Verge, etc.) are already cognizant of its shortcomings. The fact that MS is betting the farm on this is, well, risky.

 

[crackberrytraitor]

It depends on how you read success. Financially, bundling W8 with new machines is brilliant. However, that does not mean that the OS itself--bundled economics aside--is a success. Heck, several reviews (Giz, Verge, etc.) are already cognizant of its shortcomings. The fact that MS is betting the farm on this is, well, risky.

I'll say it again. I've used Windows since 3.1 and Gateway 2000. Windows 8 is an improvement in every way possible. The only iffy feature us the start button, which can be reverted back to classic in like 60 seconds with Start 8. People saying it's so confusing, or drastic or whatever are either total technophobes or just trying to stir up hype for their blog posts. Like seriously, Windows 8 is really, really good.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums

 

[dmmarck]

I'll say it again. I've used Windows since 3.1 and Gateway 2000. Windows 8 is an improvement in every way possible. The only iffy feature us the start button, which can be reverted back to classic in like 60 seconds with Start 8. People saying it's so confusing, or drastic or whatever are either total technophobes or just trying to stir up hype for their blog posts. Like seriously, Windows 8 is really, really good.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums

It could be, and that very well may be happening due to the concerns/reasons you listed, but that does not discount the fact it's still happening and that MS is breaking from its more traditional methodologies. Any time a company breaks for a new path it's a risk, and the pairing of Surface + 8 is a risk, no matter how you cut it.

 

[YAYTech]

It could be, and that very well may be happening due to the concerns/reasons you listed, but that does not discount the fact it's still happening and that MS is breaking from its more traditional methodologies. Any time a company breaks for a new path it's a risk, and the pairing of Surface + 8 is a risk, no matter how you cut it.

It is a risk, but without risk MS would rot. People hated Vista but loved 7. Part of that was some polish missing from some new approaches in Vista, part of it was issues that were resolved with service packs. I think most of it is that MS tried new things with Vista, and people complained because they don't like change. Then people tried 7, and much of what they loved with 7 were things that were actually introduced with Vista, but polished a bit in 7. I think we'll see the same thing with 8 - people will (and are) freak out because of change, but by the time the next version rolls around, the shock will be over, and MS will know how to apply some polish to things to smooth and sooth the experience. It's not that 8 is or will be bad, it's that people take time to adjust to change, and the next version will polish new things tried in 8.

That said, one thing that seems to be a big differentiation between Vista and 8 is that Vista's new features seemed to bring some software bloat with them, while 8 seems to be keeping that to a minimum, or even reducing bloat, and at the same time enhancing efficiency with some new tech, which makes it that much more efficient.

I'll be installing 8, but keeping 7 in a partition as a security blanket. But frankly, I doubt I'll use 7 much as long as I don't find any program or driver issues.

 

[crackberrytraitor]

It is a risk, but without risk MS would rot. People hated Vista but loved 7. Part of that was some polish missing from some new approaches in Vista, part of it was issues that were resolved with service packs. I think most of it is that MS tried new things with Vista, and people complained because they don't like change. Then people tried 7, and much of what they loved with 7 were things that were actually introduced with Vista, but polished a bit in 7. I think we'll see the same thing with 8 - people will (and are) freak out because of change, but by the time the next version rolls around, the shock will be over, and MS will know how to apply some polish to things to smooth and sooth the experience. It's not that 8 is or will be bad, it's that people take time to adjust to change, and the next version will polish new things tried in 8.

That said, one thing that seems to be a big differentiation between Vista and 8 is that Vista's new features seemed to bring some software bloat with them, while 8 seems to be keeping that to a minimum, or even reducing bloat, and at the same time enhancing efficiency with some new tech, which makes it that much more efficient.

I'll be installing 8, but keeping 7 in a partition as a security blanket. But frankly, I doubt I'll use 7 much as long as I don't find any program or driver issues.

That's what I love about 8. I installed it on an old Pentium 3 with 1 gig of RAM, just for kicks and it still runs smooth. The software optimization in 8 is downright Amazing.

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[dmmarck]

That's what I love about 8. I installed it on an old Pentium 3 with 1 gig of RAM, just for kicks and it still runs smooth. The software optimization in 8 is downright Amazing.

Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums

I sure hope you're right. I've heard the exact opposite, but that was in the early preview stage.

 

[ravenas]

My view has changed since seeing the Surface RT presentation today. Now I think the Surface Pro will fail and the RT will succeed. The difference is what we use tablets for.

I've been using tablets since the iPad1. My daily work involves e-mail, web research, editing MS Word documents, HTML/javascript coding and graphic design. I also throw in video editing on the side. I need to use Skype for keeping in touch with coworkers and VPN to connect to the work server.

iPad1 gave me the ability to do my web research and e-mail, but I really missed the ability to video conference. iPad2 gave me the camera I needed for that. There are a ton of apps for iOS, but that software keyboard proved too clunky for any long editing sessions. So I tried using a series of bluetooth keyboards. Then I had issues with software. No iOS apps can effectively edit a full MS Word page. I need to update headers & footers with macro fields as well as use tables and graphics, then output to PDF for uploading to a work server. Forget about doing any real graphic design work for the web. The lack of a file system for drag-n-drop makes iOS unusable for real work. Best solution was remote desktop apps that let me use my existing laptop/desktop. So why use a tablet?

Enter Android and its file system. Got an Asus Transformer because that solved the keyboard and USB problem. But again, as good as KingSoft and OpenOffice are, neither can give me the same editing features as MS Word. However, the Google apps integration is killer for me. All my PIM info (calendar, e-mail, contacts) is on Google. And using Chrome allows me to pick up my internet research from device to device. But since I can't do as much of the Word editing as I need, having a big 10" tablet feels a bit overkill. Not quite as usable as laptop and a little bulkier to carry around as a portable.

Now I have Surface RT which comes with MS Office, the integrated keyboard, cameras and a microSD card slot. I get the ability to do my research and edit my work files. Since RT is tied to Windows 8 I expect it will be a fluid experience, far more than iOS and at least on par with Android. It looks to be a better 10" tablet candidate for work. Meanwhile I've transitioned my home tablet use to the 7" form factor. The Nexus 7 is portable enough to fit in my purse and easily be used in bed without tiring my arms.

My guess is no business will buy any Windows 8 devices. The lack of a Start Menu and the changes to the OS make IT guys fret over all the retraining. So it is the Consumer market will be driving Win 8 sales. They'll get a Surface because of the ability to edit work files and connect to their Windows systems. They won't want to shell out $1000 for a Pro device when they could put that money into a touch laptop. They didn't go for Ultraportables for the same reason.

The markets who will see the biggest threat are Netbooks and iPads. Android will do just fine as long as Google plays it like they are. Develop the 7" portable tablets that integrate well with phones and existing desktops as media consumption devices. This time next year the game will be between Microsoft vs Google with each making the case their OS is best for play & work while Apple is seen as offering expensive toys and wondering why they aren't seen as "the" tablet maker.