Nexus 9.... I went with a SHIELD Tablet instead

Not everybody wants something like that sticking out of their tablet.......

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When they make a Low Profile or Ultra Fit like this with a Micro USB most people will like it.

Or they can get a Wi Fi portable SanDisk Connect 64GB Wireless Media Drive that also adds a SDHC/SDXC memory card slot for storage expansion that won't add any bulk to the Nexus 9.

I'm not wasting any money buying a obsolete 32 bit Tablet now just to get a SD card. Android has moved to a 64 bit OS that will provide Superior graphics and wider memory access over the old 32 bit devices. There will be tons of 64bit Android tablets coming out in 1H of 2015 with The Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 810 processor. Then again I don't need a SD card since I have at least a minimum of 11 GB of free space on all my Nexus & Samsung devices since I use the free Google drive to off set the need for a SD card.
 
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You keep banging on about 32 bit being obsolete.... Its nowhere near obsolete. I don't know why or how you come to that conclusion. Do you honestly think that within a year we are not going to have 32bit apps?

I understand 64bit being new and the next big thing but its not exclusive and won't be for a couple of years at least.

You seem to be dead against anyone having reasons not to buy a Nexus 9, maybe I don't want to spend more money on WiFi storage, maybe I don't want a low profile wart sticking out of my already expensive tablet. Maybe I don't want to spend $479 plus tax and then more for the add ons you mention. Especially when I have a tablet that up until the Nexus 9 drops is the fastest android tablet out there

Your reasoning is starting to not make sense and is starting to look a bit like fanboyism

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You keep banging on about 32 bit being obsolete.... Its nowhere near obsolete. I don't know why or how you come to that conclusion. Do you honestly think that within a year we are not going to have 32bit apps?

I understand 64bit being new and the next big thing but its not exclusive and won't be for a couple of years at least.

You seem to be dead against anyone having reasons not to buy a Nexus 9, maybe I don't want to spend more money on WiFi storage, maybe I don't want a low profile wart sticking out of my already expensive tablet. Maybe I don't want to spend $479 plus tax and then more for the add ons you mention. Especially when I have a tablet that up until the Nexus 9 drops is the fastest android tablet out there

Your reasoning is starting to not make sense and is starting to look a bit like fanboyism

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I have a feeling that he doesn't really understand what a 64-bit CPU is supposed to be or how things will transition moving forward. To put things into perspective, there are still apps offering Gingerbread support to this day.
 
I read everything about N9 the past few months and expected to join the parade. The lack of an SD card slot and the price led me to the Shield. I am not a gamer but quite happy with the decision.

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I have a feeling that he doesn't really understand what a 64-bit CPU is supposed to be or how things will transition moving forward. To put things into perspective, there are still apps offering Gingerbread support to this day.

I understand CPU better than most people on these boards. I have worked for Computer manufactures and programed or sold high end computers for IBM and others for 35 years. I have been a computer programers on 12, 16, 24, 32 and 64 bit computers. Do you know anything about Big and Little Endian Byte order? I never said they are going to drop 32 bit support any time soon as the Shield fans Op hinted I was saying.

Fact 32 bit days are numbered with Android Lollypop as everything is moving up to 64. Nothing against the 32 bit Shield tablet but it just isn't in the same quality class as the Nexus 9 tablet in graphics, memory width or processing power. The Nexus 9 has graphics with those 192-core Kepler architecture-based GPU that will be Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 quality. With 64 bit becoming the new standard in Android Lollypop it is the standard to meet now. Again if the Nexus 9 was a cell phone and not a tablet that is also designed for business and college productivity the 32 vs 64 wouldn't be as important.
 
The shield also has the 192 core keplar GPU.....

You said you are not gonna waste cash on an obsolete tablet.... And I'm saying 32bit tablets are not going to be obsolete anytime soon so that argument hold very little if any.

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I read everything about N9 the past few months and expected to join the parade. The lack of an SD card slot and the price led me to the Shield. I am not a gamer but quite happy with the decision.

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I have no idea what would give you the impression that Nexus devices would support an SD card.
 
So the nexus 9 is 64bit but also remember the nexus 6 is still just 32. I'll believe that 64 bit is the new standard once phones start adopting that architecture as well. Phones are what drive the android ecosystem....not tablets. It'll be at least a year or two before developers see enough 64 bit devices on market to adopt it as a new standard. By the time that rolls around there will be tablets that will blow the nexus 9 away. I'll probably end up getting a nexus 9 now but the fact that it has 64 bit architecture doesn't factor into my decision at all.
 
So the nexus 9 is 64bit but also remember the nexus 6 is still just 32. I'll believe that 64 bit is the new standard once phones start adopting that architecture as well. Phones are what drive the android ecosystem....not tablets. It'll be at least a year or two before developers see enough 64 bit devices on market to adopt it as a new standard. By the time that rolls around there will be tablets that will blow the nexus 9 away. I'll probably end up getting a nexus 9 now but the fact that it has 64 bit architecture doesn't factor into my decision at all.

Actually if ART takes hold, which it should, then the runtime apps are compiled to the device CPU. In this case if the compiler uses the native ISA, then it can be a big deal. Not to mention the enhanced floating point/NEON functions that are available over the previous 32 bit ISA. Nvidia covers a number of the changes in the new architecture.

https://developer.nvidia.com/conten...h-officially-unveiling-nvidia-tegra-k1-64-bit
 
They never did and I never did. The price was also exactly what it was speculated to be. On release I decided not to drop $399 on a 16gb tab. I dropped $299 for one and added à 32gb card for much less than the difference. For my needs N7 was really a better option than N9.

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Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

I guess it all in what you use your device for since I see nothing the Shield does that my 2013 or 2012 Nexus 7 doesn't do with that logic. The Shield and Nexus 7 are all 32 bits and have enough horse power to run most apps today. Again you ignore the much higher quality graphics with shadowing and lighting effects with 64 bits that add realism to graphics applications. Plus you ignore the wider 64 bit bus to memory that video Frame rate will benefit from a wider data path to memory. The 64 BitTegra K1 gives you the GPU that were the quality of the Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3 that the Shield doesn't. In a cell phone I wouldn't care about 64 bits with a limited size screen and a cell phone is more of a communication device. A tablet is more like a laptop type of device that should be 64 bits.

Android 4.4.4 will be the last major release of 32 bits with Android 5.0 Lollypop that supports true 64 bits. I have nothing against the Shield but I am going to future proof myself with only 64 bit Android devices from this point on. There is day coming that Apps won't be designed to work in 32 bit devices as Android 32 bit OS fades into the sunset. I could never recommend at 32 bit Android tablet to any of my friends since 32 bits days are numbered between both Apple and Android moving up to 64 bits. It won't be long before you see App developers having 64 bit only Apps since that is the industry standard now. Apple just announced that starting February 1, 2015, all new iOS apps uploaded to the App Store must include 64-bit support. App developers are moving to 64 bits or they will be out of business.

Your entire logic is pretty shaky. You are 100% false in your assertion that lollipop will be the last 32 bit compatible release. IF that was true then every android device today besides the Nexus 9 will not be supported after Lollipop. So the Nexus 6 is a brick before even being released. You better tell anyone who ordered a Nexus 6 to cancel their order. There is no special tablet only android os, that was honeycomb and you saw how well that turned out. You keep making a comparison to Apple, but you don't seem to actually thought out what you are actually comparing. Most of Apple's Ipads that are in consumers hands are 32 bit! People aren't buying ipads in droves, hence why it's a flat market. People who have bought iPads are keeping them for a long time.

You say 64 bit for phones doesn't matter. The majority of 64 bit devices apple sells are PHONES. 64 bit is not industry standard for phones or tablets. It will be a standard, but the vast majority of devices are still 32 bit. Apple hasn't stopped support for 32 bit and they don't plan to for the next 2 years. 4:3 ratio is for web browsing and ebook reading. You don't need 64 bit for that. That's proven by Apple and the numbers prove it. You keep confusing 64 bit support and 32 bit not being supported. Those are two different concepts that you keep intertwining.The days of 32 bit may be numbered, but that number of days are counted in years.
 
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Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

Your entire logic is pretty shaky. You are 100% false in your assertion that lollipop will be the last 32 bit compatible release. IF that was true then every android device today besides the Nexus 9 will not be supported after Lollipop. So the Nexus 6 is a brick before even being released.

You are reading into my statement things I never implied. Never said 32 bit wouldn't be supported after Lollypop. Microsoft still supports 32 bit laptops as legacy devices but almost everyone buys 64bit laptops now. As soon as there are more 64 bit device choices the same will be true in Android where people buy 64 over older 32 bit devices. Tablets are replacing low to mid lever laptops. Tablets are being used for productivity in college class and even business and 64 bits CPU will provide more productivity. The Nvidia Tegra K1 64 bit is a laptop replacement CPU. Tablets have far greater need for 64bit CPU than cell phones today that are more communication devices.

The OP started this thread with his view that the Shield at $100 less than the Nexus 9 is a better deal and by that logic the Nexus 7 at $100 cheaper than a Shield is even a better deal. I have no use for SD card and there are several work around to the extra storage without a SD card. The Nexus 9 is a much better tablet both spec wise, performances wise, screen wise and productivity wise than a Shield. 64bit is the new Android standard but yes 32 bits will still be supported as legacy systems in Android. I wouldn't waste my money buying a old 32 bit Android tablet now that in January 2015 at CES there will be several new 64 bit Android devices being announced and some will have SD cards.
 
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Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

You are reading into my statement things I never implied. Never said 32 bit wouldn't be supported after Lollypop. Microsoft still supports 32 bit laptops as legacy devices but almost everyone buys 64bit laptops now. As soon as there are more 64 bit device choices the same will be true in Android where people buy 64 over older 32 bit devices. Tablets are replacing low to mid lever laptops. Tablets are being used for productivity in college class and even business and 64 bits CPU will provide more productivity. The Nvidia Tegra K1 64 bit is a laptop replacement CPU. Tablets have far greater need for 64bit CPU than cell phones today that are more communication devices.

The OP started this thread with his view that the Shield at $100 less than the Nexus 9 is a better deal and by that logic the Nexus 7 at $100 cheaper than a Shield is even a better deal. I have no use for SD card and there are several work around to the extra storage without a SD card. The Nexus 9 is a much better tablet both spec wise, performances wise, screen wise and productivity wise than a Shield. 64bit is the new Android standard but yes 32 bits will still be supported as legacy systems in Android. I wouldn't waste my money buying a old 32 bit Android tablet now that in January 2015 at CES there will be several new 64 bit Android devices being announced and some will have SD cards.

I'm not reading into your statements at all
Android 4.4.4 will be the last major release of 32 bits with Android 5.0 Lollypop that supports true 64 bits.
That's more than implied. You could have stated that 4.4.4 would be the the last 32 bit only release. but you didn't. You made a vague statement specifically to skew a readers perspective. Sorry, not buying it.

The shield k1 has faster per core speeds than the N9. Both chips have the SAME GPU so that's another fact you keep glossing over. If a program is written for multi-core it will perform exactly the same across the two tablets. 64 bit is great, but the programs that need it need something else.... RAM. 64 bit programs are ram intensive. You keep saying that tablets are replacing laptops, which isn't true that's why the tablet market is flat, would you buy a laptop with 2 GBs of ram? the N9 will actually be worse trying to run next year's 64 bit programs that are ram intensive than a 32 bit chip with the same ram running the exact same program in 32 bit mode.

A tablet limited to 32gb can't be used for much productivity. File sizes are large. One file in photoshop easily reaches 2gb in size. Don't even get started on video editing. Where are you going to store that? Tablets are media consumption device with light productivity thrown in as a bonus (again look at the apple ipad). The programs that benefit most from 64 bit aren't something you are going to be using on a tablet with 32gb and 2 gb of ram. Because you know word processing and being a mobile pos are really intensive programs. Again, not buying it.

The value isn't there for the N9 except for internet fanboys can scream i gotz teh 64 bits. If apple has to FORCE developers to include 64 bit support, the need really isn't there. By the time 64 bit will be an issue the n9 will be so far outdated it won't be funny. Save the 100-200 now, and save it for a tablet in 2 years that will actually take advantage of 64 bit and has more than 2gb of ram.
 
Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

The OP started this thread with his view that the Shield at $100 less than the Nexus 9 is a better deal and by that logic the Nexus 7 at $100 cheaper than a Shield is even a better deal. I have no use for SD card and there are several work around to the extra storage without a SD card. The Nexus 9 is a much better tablet both spec wise, performances wise, screen wise and productivity wise than a Shield. 64bit is the new Android standard but yes 32 bits will still be supported as legacy systems in Android. I wouldn't waste my money buying a old 32 bit Android tablet now that in January 2015 at CES there will be several new 64 bit Android devices being announced and some will have SD cards.

Your logic is so far off, how can the Nexus 7 be a better deal than the Shield?, you are totally wide of the mark. Both the Nexus 9 and Shield run the Tegra K1 chip with the EXACT same 192 Keplar GPU, one is quad core 32bit and the other is dual core 64bit.... one has a 1080p screen the other has a 2k display, one has Micro SD the other has none, one had HDMI the other does not, both have dual front facing speakers, one has a 4:3 ratio the other is 16:9, one starts at 16gb priced at $399 the other starts at 16gb for $299, if you want LTE then one is $599.... the other is $399..... this reason the Shield right now and probs for the next 12 months is the better buy, saving a big chink of change and still getting massive performance gains over the snapdragon counterparts

Now break down your logic regarding the N7 regarding the shield and show me where it has any comparison at all in specs... it doesnt.... Your logic hurts my head
 
Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

I'm not reading into your statements at all That's more than implied. You could have stated that 4.4.4 would be the the last 32 bit only release. but you didn't. You made a vague statement specifically to skew a readers perspective. Sorry, not buying it.

The shield k1 has faster per core speeds than the N9. Both chips have the SAME GPU so that's another fact you keep glossing over. If a program is written for multi-core it will perform exactly the same across the two tablets. 64 bit is great, but the programs that need it need something else.... RAM. 64 bit programs are ram intensive. You keep saying that tablets are replacing laptops, which isn't true that's why the tablet market is flat, would you buy a laptop with 2 GBs of ram? the N9 will actually be worse trying to run next year's 64 bit programs that are ram intensive than a 32 bit chip with the same ram running the exact same program in 32 bit mode.

A tablet limited to 32gb can't be used for much productivity. File sizes are large. One file in photoshop easily reaches 2gb in size. Don't even get started on video editing. Where are you going to store that? Tablets are media consumption device with light productivity thrown in as a bonus (again look at the apple ipad). The programs that benefit most from 64 bit aren't something you are going to be using on a tablet with 32gb and 2 gb of ram. Because you know word processing and being a mobile pos are really intensive programs. Again, not buying it.

The value isn't there for the N9 except for internet fanboys can scream i gotz teh 64 bits. If apple has to FORCE developers to include 64 bit support, the need really isn't there. By the time 64 bit will be an issue the n9 will be so far outdated it won't be funny. Save the 100-200 now, and save it for a tablet in 2 years that will actually take advantage of 64 bit and has more than 2gb of ram.

Logic..... its wasted on some folks :)
 
Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

I was reading the AndroidAuthority SoC Guide for this fall and my understanding of what they said is that the new Tegra K1 in the Nexus 9 is not just 64 bit but also faster and better in other ways too... Here's a quote: "The Denver chip can be clocked up to 2.5 GHz, but it’s more than just the clock speed that will give Nvidia’s chip a per core performance boost. Nvidia’s own benchmarks, which we should be a little wary of, puts the Denver K1’s performance close to Intel’s Haswell Celeron 2955U." And... "Gaming, and other CPU intensive tasks, traditionally demand stronger single core performance, which the Cortex A53 doesn’t really have. The new Tegra K1 could really shine when it comes to gaming."

I'm no expert in these matters but it looks to me like they are saying the new K1 is faster and that it performs on par with Haswell... Also they posted some pics from Nvidia one of which seems to outline the differences in the old Tegra K1 (Shield) and new K1 (N9)...

Denver-Hot-Chips-TK1.png

I don't pretend to know what superscalers are but it says that the N9 version has 7 way while the Shield version has 3 way. It also mentions a 2.5 GHz speed as opposed to 2.3 and obviously the 64 bit thing plus some other differences. I also found interesting this chart:

Tegra-K1-Denver-CPU-performance-710x403.jpg

... inwhich the new K1 outperforms Haswell in a bunch of benchmarks.

So correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that the N9's K1 is not just 64 Bit but also faster too... So what I'm getting at is does it really matter whether 64 Bit makes a difference? Isn't it more important which is faster? Personally I don't really care which is faster, I got the N9 cause it's Nexus... I'm sure they are both great tablets.
 
Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

I was reading the AndroidAuthority SoC Guide for this fall and my understanding of what they said is that the new Tegra K1 in the Nexus 9 is not just 64 bit but also faster and better in other ways too... Here's a quote: "The Denver chip can be clocked up to 2.5 GHz, but it’s more than just the clock speed that will give Nvidia’s chip a per core performance boost. Nvidia’s own benchmarks, which we should be a little wary of, puts the Denver K1’s performance close to Intel’s Haswell Celeron 2955U." And... "Gaming, and other CPU intensive tasks, traditionally demand stronger single core performance, which the Cortex A53 doesn’t really have. The new Tegra K1 could really shine when it comes to gaming."

I'm no expert in these matters but it looks to me like they are saying the new K1 is faster and that it performs on par with Haswell... Also they posted some pics from Nvidia one of which seems to outline the differences in the old Tegra K1 (Shield) and new K1 (N9)...

View attachment 144020

I don't pretend to know what superscalers are but it says that the N9 version has 7 way while the Shield version has 3 way. It also mentions a 2.5 GHz speed as opposed to 2.3 and obviously the 64 bit thing plus some other differences. I also found interesting this chart:

View attachment 144022

... inwhich the new K1 outperforms Haswell in a bunch of benchmarks.

So correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that the N9's K1 is not just 64 Bit but also faster too... So what I'm getting at is does it really matter whether 64 Bit makes a difference? Isn't it more important which is faster? Personally I don't really care which is faster, I got the N9 cause it's Nexus... I'm sure they are both great tablets.

The fastness of the denver k1 over shield k1 is greatly over exaggerated. The only large advantage of the k1 64 bit is the ability at handling ram, but with 2 Gbs of ram that is not a real noticable real world difference. Basically 2gb of ram is a 100 foot distance. does it matter if you are going 60 mph over 30 mph if it saves you less than a fraction of a fraction of a second? and is that worth almost double the price?

I finally found this benchmark test I saw a couple of days ago on daily tech. It's clear that the denver k1 handles ram more quickly. but everything else is basically the same between the two except the K1 32 bit is far faster per core than the 64 bit denver. At this present time quad-core cpus are industry standard and many game devs are coding for multi and quad core cpus.
53cefc3284c04296b8994402dc58365a.jpg
 
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Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

The fastness of the denver k1 over shield k1 is greatly over exaggerated. The only large advantage of the k1 64 bit is the ability at handling ram, but with 2 Gbs of ram that is not a real noticable real world difference. Basically 2gb of ram is a 100 foot distance. does it matter if you are going 60 mph over 30 mph if it saves you less than a fraction of a fraction of a second? and is that worth almost double the price?

I finally found this benchmark test I saw a couple of days ago on daily tech. It's clear that the denver k1 handles ram more quickly. but everything else is basically the same between the two except the K1 32 bit is far faster per core than the 64 bit denver. At this present time quad-core cpus are industry standard and many game devs are coding for multi and quad core cpus.
View attachment 144060

There is way, way, way more to it than that. First of all, those are very old Antutu benchmarks, so who knows what it is comparing (probably not 64 bit version). Besides that's 4 A15 cores versus only 2 Denver cores.

To learn about the basics of 64 bit ARMv8 architecture you can read these white papers linked below. It explicitly points out that ARMv7 (32 bit) processors could support large amounts of RAM with the LPAE extension (40 bit addressing instead of 32 bit). It added unnecessary cost, so pretty much nobody did it, compared to going straight to 64 bit.

More importantly, the instruction set is completely new! Brand new! Kind of like going from Intel instruction set to PowerPC, or vice-versa. The 32 bit CPU is not compatible to the 64 bit instruction, however the 64 bit CPU includes backward compatibility to the 32 bit instructions. Given that most programs are written in high level languages, they just need to be compiled to the new version.

"Fundamental to ARMv8 has to be the new instruction set, known as A64; the encoding of instructions to enable an application to utilize a 64-bit machine. ARM took the decision to introduce 64-bit through a new instruction set rather than extension of an existing instruction set for many good reasons. Most notably, and probably as no surprise, because we could develop a new independent instruction set to execute code in a lower power manner than by adding instructions to the existing instruction set."

http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/ARMv8_white_paper_v5.pdf
http://www.arm.com/files/pdf/ARM_Qualcomm_White_paper_Final.pdf
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/19/197211/ARMv8-A IR webcast 24_03_2014.pdf


In addition, the Denver CPU Nvidia built is a custom CPU with it's own native instruction set. It is not really an ARM CPU, but is compatible to ARM instructions. They did it to design the most efficient CPU for mobile independent of instruction set.
 
Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

I don't pretend to know what superscalers are but it says that the N9 version has 7 way while the Shield version has 3 way. It also mentions a 2.5 GHz speed as opposed to 2.3 and obviously the 64 bit thing plus some other differences. I also found interesting this chart:

.

The Superscalers implements simultaneous parallel Multiple Instructions execution threads. Each thread will have have separate memory access that allows Multiple Data throughput that makes the memory bus more efficient. This allows separate execution threads.

What it means in the 64 bit Denver version of the K1 has up to 7 simultaneous instruction execution threads filling up those 192 GPU. Not only is the 64bit data path wider it contains more graphics texturing and shading information in each 64 bit word. Superscalers therefore allows faster CPU throughput than would otherwise be possible at a given clock rate.
 
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Re: Nexus 9.... I went with a Shield tablet instead

The fastness of the denver k1 over shield k1 is greatly over exaggerated. The only large advantage of the k1 64 bit is the ability at handling ram, but with 2 Gbs of ram that is not a real noticable real world difference. Basically 2gb of ram is a 100 foot distance. does it matter if you are going 60 mph over 30 mph if it saves you less than a fraction of a fraction of a second? and is that worth almost double the price?

First the price of the Shield is $299 and the Nexus 9 is $399 for the same 16GB of internal memory. Not even close to double the price. If a $100 is that much then you should consider the Nexus 7 that is a $100 less than the Shield as a bigger bargain.

However for $100 more than the Shield the Nexus 9 has many more improved features over the Shield.

The N9 has HTC's Boom Sound that alone is worth a lot of the price differences.

The N9 has faster CPU clock speed that is 4.55% faster CPU clock speed plus 7 Superscalers execution paths vs 3 in the Shield.

The N9 has Clearly higher resolution of 28% higher resolution of 2048x1440 px vs the Shield's 1920x1200 px

The N9 has 11.25% bigger screen size of 8.9 " vs Shield's 8 "

The N9 is Thinner 7.9 mm vs Shield's 9.2 mm

The N9 camera has a flash LED and has more megapixels of 8 MP vs The Shield's 5 MP

The N9 has optional 32 GB internal storage vs the Shield's 16 GB which does have SD expansion port even if Apps can't be stored on the SD card without hacking it.

The N9 is Is DLNA certified which allow devices connected to the same network to transferred easily between them. The Shield isn't DLNA certified.

The N9 has a fast 802.11ac WiFi connection where the Shield has the older Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n, dual-band.

The N9 has three full subpixels per pixel, resulting in a sharp and crisp picture. Pixels in some displays (like AMOLED) share one subpixel to preserve space. This can result in a less crisp, slightly blurred image.

The N9 has Nvidia Tegra K1 (64-bit) CPU and the Shield has Nvidia Tegra K1 (32-bit). The N9 is more Future Proof by a much wider margin.

The N9 Supports ECC memory the Shield doesn't. Error-correcting code memory can detect and correct data corruption. It is used when is it essential to avoid corruption, such as scientific computing or when running a server.

HTC Nexus 9 vs Nvidia Shield Tablet - Tablets Specs Comparison
 
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