Pixel vs. S7

[Kayza]

S7 Pros over Pixel(IMO)
+ Use of space in design. S7 and S7e are smaller than other phones of equal screen size.
+ Water resistance
+ Wireless charging
+ Screen size/resolution (S7 vs Pixel)
+ Micro SD
+ Samsung Pay/offers (Samsung Pay is awesome by itself, but I also managed to ear ~$150 in gift cards through various promotions).

Android Pay is available for more banks. I have an S6, and I couldn't use Samsung Pay, because none of my cards are supported. (I don't have tons of cards, but my primary card is from a major bank.)

As for the resolution, once you get to ~400 PPI, are you really going to see a difference? Also, the XL does have the same ppi as the Samsung. Or are you talking about color, brightness and saturation?

 

[jd78]

Android Pay is available for more banks. I have an S6, and I couldn't use Samsung Pay, because none of my cards are supported. (I don't have tons of cards, but my primary card is from a major bank.)

As for the resolution, once you get to ~400 PPI, are you really going to see a difference? Also, the XL does have the same ppi as the Samsung. Or are you talking about color, brightness and saturation?

I think the discussion was mostly reg Pixel vs S7 regarding resolution. Regardless if its indiscernible, the numbers are still in Samsung's favor. Unlike other members, i'm not going to the numbers or facts.

Android Pay does support more banks, but Samsung Pay's MST allows it to be used at more point-of-sale systems. Plus, I really liked the promotions. Using Samsung pay for every day shopping netted me ~$150 gift cards.

 

[JasW]

I think the discussion was mostly reg Pixel vs S7 regarding resolution.

I'm not sure why the OP, coming from a Note 5 and now getting rid of a Note 7, is considering either the S7 or the regular Pixel. If you've been using Notes, you should be looking at the XL or the V20, not the S7 or regular Pixel. Unless size actually doesn't matter.

 

[jd78]

I'm not sure why the OP, coming from a Note 5 and now getting rid of a Note 7, is considering either the S7 or the regular Pixel. If you've been using Notes, you should be looking at the XL or the V20, not the S7 or regular Pixel. Unless size actually doesn't matter.

My change isn't as drastic, but i've recently used an iPhone 6s Plus and a Samsung GS7 Edge and am going with the regular Pixel this time around. I completely get wanting to go smaller, but can't say if I would feel the same if I had previously been using even larger phones like the Notes.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

Those are exactly the photos you can't use to judge camera performance. You have no idea who those people are (or maybe you do), lighting situation, overall environment, were they shaking like a leaf, etc. You have been delivered a ratings chart for phones evaluated by an independent 3rd party who specializes in this area and you want to use images taken by Joe six pack to argue your point.

Next you will say the S7 is faster because my friend said it feels faster regardless of what the benchmarks say. There will be more camera ratings in the next 1-2 weeks I'm sure so time will tell if the Pixel camera holds up.

You're really stretching here lol. As I've said before, what a professional photographer can do with a camera is irrelevent to me since I'm not a professional photographer.

The S7 is faster because you can visually see that it is faster. Kind of like you can see the Pixel's images and see them for yourself.

 

[SteelGator]

I think the discussion was mostly reg Pixel vs S7 regarding resolution. Regardless if its indiscernible, the numbers are still in Samsung's favor. Unlike other members, i'm not going to the numbers or facts.

Android Pay does support more banks, but Samsung Pay's MST allows it to be used at more point-of-sale systems. Plus, I really liked the promotions. Using Samsung pay for every day shopping netted me ~$150 gift cards.

There is no comparison, Samsung pay is far and away the best mobile payment system. I will miss it. I am not sure that I will go back to Android Pay due to the limited number of terminals enabled.

 

[jd78]

You're really stretching here lol. As I've said before, what a professional photographer can do with a camera is irrelevent to me since I'm not a professional photographer.

The S7 is faster because you can visually see that it is faster. Kind of like you can see the Pixel's images and see them for yourself.

Not a professional, but your word is better than Dxomark? Look, you can have your opinion, but do us all a favor and voice your posts as opinion. Right now your tone is coming across as fact, when there has already been industry standard contradictory evidence.

 

[Aquila]

You're really stretching here lol. As I've said before, what a professional photographer can do with a camera is irrelevent to me since I'm not a professional photographer.

The S7 is faster because you can visually see that it is faster. Kind of like you can see the Pixel's images and see them for yourself.

What an expert professional can do with it in a variety of controlled test conditions is exactly what is important to the objectivity and credibility of tests. You're giving us the equivelant of, "I don't care what nearly every expert climate scientist says is happening, I felt cold yesterday and therefore conclude that the EVIDENCE indicates climate change isn't real". No, that's not how logic or evidence work.

Please see the earlier request of a refutation standard. We need you to provide a dissenting expert analysis, as indicated by "what I would ask from you in order to refute that evidence is to produce a dissenting expert analysis that is also objective, using equipment to measure the quality of each and is analyzing all of the same devices (or more) and ranking them according to their findings".

The argument of "a random layman looked at random photos (not even side by side, random scenes from one and random from another) and preferred one over another" is not evidence, it is not relevant and it is sort of ridiculous.

So at this point, please provide your sources for disagreement (criteria above), detail their credentials and methodology and provide your reasons for believing that their methodology is more valid and why their conclusions should be valued over that of other experts. Anything else is just what we talked about earlier - it is your preference despite the evidence, not any factual argument. The statement that the evidence supports your claim is simply false.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

Not a professional, but your word is better than Dxomark? Look, you can have your opinion, but do us all a favor and voice your posts as opinion. Right now your tone is coming across as fact, when there has already been industry standard contradictory evidence.

And there is also evidence that contradicts what DXO Mark claimed. Also, their review did not cover night shots, the true test.

 

[Aquila]

To clarify why this is an evidence discussion - it's because of the term "best". This has a connotation of objectivity and therefore must imply that objective testing determines the results.

I have no issues with anyone saying, "i like this thing more" - about anything, because preferences are subjective and can even change in the same individual over time. I know damn well my Nexus 5X isn't the best at anything - but there are still many things that I like about it and most of what it does is still good enough for how I use it. It does certain things better than the S7 & S7 Edge, but mostly just related to software, security and software updates. Me liking it is a separate argument from it being the best in any particular category.

This is why it's so hard to talk about a "best smartphone" - because that's a subjective aggregate assessment of several objective categories that intrinsically requires weighing the value of certain features against each other and making judgement calls about which features are most important, by how much and arriving a conclusion supported by logical argument of those judgments.

 

[jd78]

And there is also evidence that contradicts what DXO Mark claimed. Also, their review did not cover night shots, the true test.

You are completely missing the point... At this moment Dxomark is the only one to objectively test and review the Pixel camera and through there controlled tests have stated the Pixel camera is the best (at the moment). The other "evidence" are people (professional or otherwise), stating their opinion as they have not had the same type of exposure to the camera, but they are at least stating their opinion. What you are doing is blindly ignoring the evidence for the Pixel (an actually official test) and going with the unofficial evidence against and you're tone is that of fact (i.e. "S7 is better, PERIOD!").

Even the Dxomark review acknowledge the S7 was better is a couple scenarios, but their rating was based on a number of varieties and scenarios.

Summary: The best smartphone camera we’ve tested to date
Simply put, the Pixel raises the bar for what is possible with a smartphone camera. Image quality continues to improve, and the increased use of HDR+ to render scenes that have previously been difficult for small sensors such as those in smartphones broadens what is possible with these ubiquitous devices. While we have reviewed other smartphone cameras that matched the Pixel’s numbers in a few categories, the Pixel is uniquely capable of capturing outstanding images under a wide variety of conditions, and is also among the best we have tested for video capture.

Hence why the difference is only 1 point. You keep stating the Pixel might as well be the same as the iPhone 7, but its several points ahead of it.

I get it, you like your samsung. I own one and like it too, but its ok to admit something is as good or possibly better. Doesn't mean you have to like your samsung less. There real winner are Android fans... It's gonna be OK. In about 5-6 months you can come back in here and tell us how much better the S8 is to the Pixel.

 

[Aquila]

And there is also evidence that contradicts what DXO Mark claimed.

Cite that evidence; detail their credentials and methodology and provide your reasons for believing that their methodology is more valid and why their conclusions should be valued over that of other experts.

I didn't quote the second half of your statement because it is also contradicted by the evidence and therefore should not be repeated.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

What an expert professional can do with it in a variety of controlled test conditions is exactly what is important to the objectivity and credibility of tests. You're giving us the equivelant of, "I don't care what nearly every expert climate scientist says is happening, I felt cold yesterday and therefore conclude that the EVIDENCE indicates climate change isn't real". No, that's not how logic or evidence work.

Please see the earlier request of a refutation standard. We need you to provide a dissenting expert analysis, as indicated by "what I would ask from you in order to refute that evidence is to produce a dissenting expert analysis that is also objective, using equipment to measure the quality of each and is analyzing all of the same devices (or more) and ranking them according to their findings".

The argument of "a random layman looked at random photos (not even side by side, random scenes from one and random from another) and preferred one over another" is not evidence, it is not relevant and it is sort of ridiculous.

So at this point, please provide your sources for disagreement (criteria above), detail their credentials and methodology and provide your reasons for believing that their methodology is more valid and why their conclusions should be valued over that of other experts. Anything else is just what we talked about earlier - it is your preference despite the evidence, not any factual argument. The statement that the evidence supports your claim is simply false.

DXO Marks scores are arbitrary. According to DXO Mark, the Nexus 6P is the best low light phone camera. According to everyone else, it's the S7 Edge. Again, the evidence that matters when it comes to smartphone cameras are the results everyday people have been achieving with their phones.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

The evidence is the pictures people have taken with their Pixel cameras. Their credentials are that they own the phone. You're implying that a subjective score from a company is more important than real-world results by Pixel owners. When Google said their camera got the highest score ever for a smartphone camera, every reviewer said, "We'll see about that". Nobody said, "Well, it's the best. Case closed."

 

[Aquila]

DXO Marks scores are arbitrary. According to DXO Mark, the Nexus 6P is the best low light phone camera. According to everyone else, it's the S7 Edge. Again, the evidence that matters when it comes to smartphone cameras are the results everyday people have been achieving with their phones.

Ok, please provide expert analysis refuting the results of DXO. Or expert analysis proving the S7 Edge pulls ahead or maybe even define who everyone else is. @LeoRex had both and took a lot of photos with both and the 6P was definitely ahead. But that's anecdotal because he's one person and just because his results agree with the expert analysis doesn't lend credibility to the expert analysis, it works in the other direction.

And everyday people can NOT be expert judges of what is objectively the best. They can only attest to their own subjective experiences within the context of their own capabilities. So that's not evidence, that's a) subjective b) anecdotal and c) not relevant to what's actually, objectively, the best.

Everyday people can only be experts on what they prefer. You can only be an expert on what you prefer UNLESS you do a substantial amount of research of credible expert analysis and then provide synthesis in your arguments that is in accord with all of that evidence - with the exception of certain evidence that you dismiss based on logical arguments founded in the expert analysis of other experts.

You won't even cite one expert - so your opinions on any objective statement cannot be considered AT ALL, let alone considered to be credible.

 

[Aquila]

The evidence is the pictures people have taken with their Pixel cameras. Their credentials are that they own the phone. You're implying that a subjective score from a company is more important than real-world results by Pixel owners. When Google said their camera got the highest score ever for a smartphone camera, every reviewer said, "We'll see about that". Nobody said, "Well, it's the best. Case closed."

Now DXO is subjective and anecdotal laymen perceptions are more objective than laboratory testing?

You are twisted this around enough that I'm starting to think you actually believe these fabrications. See above post for what is necessary to credibly assert that DXO's methodology is flawed, subjective or whatever it is that you're claiming.

I'm implying that when you make a factual claim about reality that is in disagreement with the results of objective expert analysis that the burden of evidence is on you and that you need to provide your sources of alternative objective expert analysis and make well reasoned arguments supported by objective expert analysis for why you are choosing to support one claim over another.

So again, and again, and again, just change your argument to "I like it more" instead of trying to assert either that it is objectively better despite the evidence or lying and stating that the evidence supports your argument.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

Now DXO is subjective and anecdotal laymen perceptions are more objective than laboratory testing?

You are twisted this around enough that I'm starting to think you actually believe these fabrications. See above post for what is necessary to credibly assert that DXO's methodology is flawed, subjective or whatever it is that you're claiming.

I'm implying that when you make a factual claim about reality that is in disagreement with the results of objective expert analysis that the burden of evidence is on you and that you need to provide your sources of alternative objective expert analysis and make well reasoned arguments supported by objective expert analysis for why you are choosing to support one claim over another.

So again, and again, and again, just change your argument to "I like it more" instead of trying to assert either that it is objectively better despite the evidence or lying and stating that the evidence supports your argument.

Stop acting like an authority on this subject and talking down to me. You're making yourself look like a *****. More evidence has cropped up that the Pixel camera isn't as good as DXO Mark says it is. A thread just popped up in these forums showing the Pixel against the iPhone 7 and S7 Edge and the Puxel images often lack detail or are softer than they should be. Oh wait, no. We aren't allowed to judge for ourselves unless we become professional photographers. Sorry, I forgot.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

And yes, DXO Marks scores are subjective, as they readily admit.

 

[Aquila]

Stop acting like an authority on this subject and talking down to me. You're making yourself look like a *****.

This isn't personal and it'd be a good idea not to make it personal. My issue has been clearly restated over and over to be a discussion over the nature of objective and subjective arguments. I'm not talking down to you, I'm trying to help you understand the difference between opinions and expert analysis. If you don't want to do that, then let's just stop having the conversation.

 

[jd78]

And yes, DXO Marks scores are subjective, as they readily admit.

Yes, but the part you aren't getting is subjectivity goes both ways.