Pro-Root v. Anti-Root: Some Thoughts

[dmmarck]

Well you are mistaken. This is coming from someone who is not rooted. I have rooted other phones to get the functionality of this phone. I see no need to root. In fact, there is a common misconception of what root is. I rooted older phones so that I could:

1) Tether. By simply installing a free non-root widget, I bypass Verizon's check to see if I have paid for tethering service. I don't. I also don't tether very much as I have wifi at work now and use my tablet to look up stuff I need to there.

2) Take Screen Shots. This is a feature built into 3.0+ devices.

3) Install a custom recovery. With an unlocked bootloader, this is unnecessary. All you need is a computer... or a tablet with a usb-port. You don't even need to flash it, you can boot into the recovery an perform all the same tasks flashing a recovery to the device does. This is helpful for installing leaks that need the stock bootloader in order to flash.

That is all I needed root for in the past. Since you can boot into recovery, you don't even need to root to try a custom ROM. You can make a backup, flash ROM, if you don't like it, restore your backup and everything is exactly the way it was. You even preserve the functionality of installing updates.

The point is... You do not have a right to complain. Take that crap elsewhere. We are all tired of hearing it. I have even gotten to the point where I do not help out on here because of the constant bickering. If you don't want to read, you should not type.

While I understand that you're frustrated, they do have a right to complain--hence this topic as a means of redirecting complaints, etc., from topics that should not have it (like the 85 update threads) to this thread. If folks can complain and discuss it, we may in fact learn something--at least that's my hope .

Regarding root, you are correct--many people have misconceived ideas of what it is, what it does, and what it means. All "rooting" does is give you the ability to grant (or deny) permissions. These permissions access the very "starting" point of the file system--or the root of the file system. That's all. Unlocking the bootloader, at least how I see it, is far more impactful and powerful of an action. But because of common parlance, unlocking seems to be subsumed within the commonly used term of "rooting."

In fact, I have not "rooted" a device in some time. It's a superfluous step, IMO. I unlock the bootloader to flash unsigned packages--namely, ROMs and the like. Roms, for the most part, come rooted, and some (e.g. CM) come with the option to "disable" root or only offer limited access (which, in reality, helps stay clear of security issues; CM did this because of those very concerns, particularly with Wallet).

 

[rufflez]

While I understand that you're frustrated, they do have a right to complain--hence this topic as a means of redirecting complaints, etc., from topics that should not have it (like the 85 update threads) to this thread. If folks can complain and discuss it, we may in fact learn something--at least that's my hope .

Regarding root, you are correct--many people have misconceived ideas of what it is, what it does, and what it means. All "rooting" does is give you the ability to grant (or deny) permissions. These permissions access the very "starting" point of the file system--or the root of the file system. That's all. Unlocking the bootloader, at least how I see it, is far more impactful and powerful of an action. But because of common parlance, unlocking seems to be subsumed within the commonly used term of "rooting."

In fact, I have not "rooted" a device in some time. It's a superfluous step, IMO. I unlock the bootloader to flash unsigned packages--namely, ROMs and the like. Roms, for the most part, come rooted, and some (e.g. CM) come with the option to "disable" root or only offer limited access (which, in reality, helps stay clear of security issues; CM did this because of those very concerns, particularly with Wallet).

No, they can complain elsewhere, to Google, Samsung, Verizon. There is no reason we should be treated like we caused whatever issue they have. The do not have the right to treat the people who help like dirt. If they want help, come with open eye/ears. Put your frustrations aside and ask politely. Other forums have rules about this... this one is pretty lax on the Search before you ask rule.

 

[dmmarck]

No, they can complain elsewhere, to Google, Samsung, Verizon. There is no reason we should be treated like we caused whatever issue they have. The do not have the right to treat the people who help like dirt. If they want help, come with open eye/ears. Put your frustrations aside and ask politely. Other forums have rules about this... this one is pretty lax on the Search before you ask rule.

If you don't want to read their complaints, don't. But I made the purpose of this topic very clear. I don't want those complaints, arguments, etc. in threads where the original purpose of the thread was something entirely different, i.e. an update. But here, if they want to have civilized, meaningful discourse, not only is that kosher, but that's completely encouraged. Any discussion that is not of that nature, well, that's not good and not going to be tolerated. If they want to discuss why they believe it to be a "bullying" attitude, then do so; I believe the fruits of the argument will pay dividends, but that's just my opinion. Everything can be discussed, just in a way that maintains "communal spirit."

If you see someone who you think is bullying, acting unfairly, or being abusive, use the report function.

Lastly, the "search before you ask" replies grind my gears like nothing else. If you (or anyone) wants to post like that, post up a link to help--or a variety of links. Otherwise, it's not really beneficial to our community, the member, or our "database" of resources.

 

[TabGuy]

Isn't it ironic that the original post, which in itself is a complaint, is a plea to stop complaining?

People generally complain because things aren't going the way they want them to go, it's a control issue,

So it is with this thread

 

[dmmarck]

Isn't it ironic that the original post, which in itself is a complaint, is a plea to stop complaining?

People generally complain because things aren't going the way they want them to go, it's a control issue,

So it is with this thread

I'd argue it's coincidental, merely because the purpose behind my thread and the relevant posts are entirely different in intent and desired effect. Further, I have no real personal affection either for or against the posts. Rather, I'm viewing this entirely as a moderator, advisor, etc.

I was not complaining, I was asking. Not a plea, either. Let me distill it down. Such distillation would be:

"No more complaints in other threads, put them here. Any and all other complaints in other threads are not acceptable because they deviate off topic and add nothing to the affected threads and discussions."

If you construe my original post or the thread as anything else, please reference the line above. That is the purpose and thus the manifests my intent and the desired effect of such intent. If that did not come across in the OP, my apologies. However, I do not have the time to restructure/rewrite it, so again, please reference this post as the clarifying post.

 

[anon(596177)]

Back to the topic:

I get there are those people that cannot unlock/root their devices because they are work phones, and that really sucks, my sympathies go out to you.

But there are also people out there that cannot root simply because everything about computers confuses them. When I think about the average Nexus owner, I think about someone like my grandfather when he's pounding away on his computer. If hes not browsing the internet or not typing something in Word, he probably doesnt know how to do it, and this is the mindset I have with most people when it comes to technology, simply because I'm surrounded by stuff like that in my work environment.

So to say "either root it or shut up" just isn't logical to me, because there are users on this forum that simply cant comprehend the steps necessary to unlock their bootloader (if they even know what that is) and root the phone.

But then there are the users who are tech-savvy but are just adamant about leaving their phone locked. This I have a little bit more trouble understanding. Maybe they want the complete stock experience.. Okay, I get that I guess...

I dont really get those that say "I shouldnt have to root and flash a custom rom to enjoy this phone".... because chances are if you are capable and have the knowledge of doing it, you will most likely enjoy the phone HEAPS more anyway if it were unlocked, even if the stock experience wasn't so tainted by Verizon.

Then there are those that refuse to do it because of "risk of voiding the warranty" which I kind of get as well, but not really. These people just need to be educated in the fact that as long as this phone powers on, you can return it to a locked, stock experience at ANY time, meaning if you need to ship it back to verizon just flash it back to stock and you are good to go. It's not like the resources needed aren't readily available on this forum. Really, the only way you could void your warranty in this fashion would be to flaunt your Custom ROMed Nexus around in a verizon store and give your name to a sales rep thats having a bad day and decided they were gonna take you down with them, or by being a herp derp and sending back your phone without returning it to stock.

just my $.02 though. Some situations I can completely understand not rooting. Others, not so much. All I know is I'm happy with my AOKP JB Nexus equipped with Google Now and a boatload of other features and customization options that will keep me interested in this phone LONG after other phones have fallen short and become boring.

 

[vivek615]

Back to the topic:

I get there are those people that cannot unlock/root their devices because they are work phones, and that really sucks, my sympathies go out to you.

But there are also people out there that cannot root simply because everything about computers confuses them. When I think about the average Nexus owner, I think about someone like my grandfather when he's pounding away on his computer. If hes not browsing the internet or not typing something in Word, he probably doesnt know how to do it, and this is the mindset I have with most people when it comes to technology, simply because I'm surrounded by stuff like that in my work environment.

So to say "either root it or shut up" just isn't logical to me, because there are users on this forum that simply cant comprehend the steps necessary to unlock their bootloader (if they even know what that is) and root the phone.

But then there are the users who are tech-savvy but are just adamant about leaving their phone locked. This I have a little bit more trouble understanding. Maybe they want the complete stock experience.. Okay, I get that I guess...

I dont really get those that say "I shouldnt have to root and flash a custom rom to enjoy this phone".... because chances are if you are capable and have the knowledge of doing it, you will most likely enjoy the phone HEAPS more anyway if it were unlocked, even if the stock experience wasn't so tainted by Verizon.

Then there are those that refuse to do it because of "risk of voiding the warranty" which I kind of get as well, but not really. These people just need to be educated in the fact that as long as this phone powers on, you can return it to a locked, stock experience at ANY time, meaning if you need to ship it back to verizon just flash it back to stock and you are good to go. It's not like the resources needed aren't readily available on this forum. Really, the only way you could void your warranty in this fashion would be to flaunt your Custom ROMed Nexus around in a verizon store and give your name to a sales rep thats having a bad day and decided they were gonna take you down with them, or by being a herp derp and sending back your phone without returning it to stock.

just my $.02 though. Some situations I can completely understand not rooting. Others, not so much. All I know is I'm happy with my AOKP JB Nexus equipped with Google Now and a boatload of other features and customization options that will keep me interested in this phone LONG after other phones have fallen short and become boring.

Your USB slot could fail while rooted... I know there are apps that allow relock but what if you were stock unrooted unlocked then your USB failed? Other hardware issues can also be pita and smartphone hardware is highly likely to fail...

This is something that might make me want stock back

Also some don't want to lose data by unlocking


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[ChuckG73]

Too pile on the conversation about to root or not to root. Rooting in my opinion is the way to get the most out of a certain OS release or to update your non Nexus phone to Google's latest OS. The RUB that we are all feeling I think is that we have a Nexus device and we should not have to look to root in order to have the latest OS.

 

[turdbogls]

Too pile on the conversation about to root or not to root. Rooting in my opinion is the way to get the most out of a certain OS release or to update your non Nexus phone to Google's latest OS. The RUB that we are all feeling I think is that we have a Nexus device and we should not have to look to root in order to have the latest OS.

but if you take that "non nexus" part out of your post....isn't that what we are all doing?
since our phone isn't on the latest OS version...we root and put it on there...just like every other phone on the market. only it is about 10X easier and safer on this phone

 

[anon(596177)]

Your USB slot could fail while rooted... I know there are apps that allow relock but what if you were stock unrooted unlocked then your USB failed? Other hardware issues can also be pita and smartphone hardware is highly likely to fail...

This is something that might make me want stock back

Also some don't want to lose data by unlocking


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

a failed usb port is a good reason to be worried about rooting, but is there not a tool out there now that allows wireless ADB access? Its easy enough to wirelessly transfer a rom and radios over to the phone using some sort of cloud storage, so that would be the only issue.

I have never had a charging port fail on me on a phone so I am not too worried about that. And honestly if it did, I'm sure I could ship it off to samsung for a 50-100 dollar fix, pretty much the amount id have to pay to get a new one from verizon anyway.

 

[jova33]

guys, I'm reading this Samsung warranty, and it doesn't say anything about unlocking, rooting, or flashing a custom ROM voiding the warranty.

Actually, I'm not reading it right now, because I already read it awhile ago when someone asked if rooting and ROMing voided the warranty.

But I remember the gist of it. Basically if you get a malfunction caused by any software you install that isn't certified by Samsung, you're screwed on the warranty. So you can void your warranty without even rooting. Basically any app off the play store, any side loaded apps, or any app that didn't ship with your phone or come through an official update.

But if some piece of hardware malfunctions, that's covered by warranty, they're not going to shoot you down because you're running CM10. UNLESS that hardware malfunction was caused by software you installed.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[dmmarck]

guys, I'm reading this Samsung warranty, and it doesn't say anything about unlocking, rooting, or flashing a custom ROM voiding the warranty.

Actually, I'm not reading it right now, because I already read it awhile ago when someone asked if rooting and ROMing voided the warranty.

But I remember the gist of it. Basically if you get a malfunction caused by any software you install that isn't certified by Samsung, you're screwed on the warranty. So you can void your warranty without even rooting. Basically any app off the play store, any side loaded apps, or any app that didn't ship with your phone or come through an official update.

But if some piece of hardware malfunctions, that's covered by warranty, they're not going to shoot you down because you're running CM10. UNLESS that hardware malfunction was caused by software you installed.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I actually talked about this in a recent hangout...basically, the language on the bootloader itself says "may" void the warranty. Legally, that's permissive. It's not mandatory. That's a huge legal distinction. Samsung/Verizon doesn't automatically void your warranty; they simply reserve the right to make it "voidable."

 

[jova33]

I actually talked about this in a recent hangout...basically, the language on the bootloader itself says "may" void the warranty. Legally, that's permissive. It's not mandatory. That's a huge legal distinction. Samsung/Verizon doesn't automatically void your warranty; they simply reserve the right to make it "voidable."

Where did it say this? If it was when I was unlocking the bootloader, that was so long ago I don't remember lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[dmmarck]

Where did it say this? If it was when I was unlocking the bootloader, that was so long ago I don't remember lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Literally on the bootloader screen when you select either yes or no with the volume toggle. The "Yes...yada yada...may void your warranty" selection lol

 

[zero neck]

I'm pro root.
Wait, this isn't a survey???
Nvm then.
Carry on

 

[vivek615]

I actually thought my port failed after my microusb connector got badly damaged..its quite common to see issues esp. If using a traditional dock

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[menschmaschine5]

Really, at this point, unlocking and installing a custom ROM just seems like a huge pain. I suppose I could find a way to root without unlocking so I could make a backup, but again, pain. I used to flash a different ROM on my old Droid Incredible almost every week, but each ROM flash takes time (backup, actual ROM flash, restore), and it's time that I frankly would like to spend on something else at this point.

I'm not complaining about this phone, though. As much as I like having the latest stuff, I can wait another few weeks for Jelly Bean (which, given the recent leak, is all it will take), and my phone works better than my Dinc ever did without root. Maybe people shouldn't complain about the slow updates, but complaints about signal issues, etc are perfectly valid. The phone should work just fine out of the box. Mine does, but not everyone's does.

 

[jova33]

Even doing a backup, you'd have to move it to your PC before unlocking. And you'd also have to move all your saved media(music and pictures) to PC. It is a real pain when you've got like 15 GB
saved to your phone. That's like an hour there, and another hour to move it all back, and add an hour to that when the wife bumps the USB cable and disconnects your device for a millisecond.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[jmiesse134]

The original reason I rooted was so I could just fix the display colors and such. As soon as I got home I rooted and got what I wanted. I Like this community because you guys are all so helpful.
Just want to give a big thanks to Dmmarck and all the others that seem to answer my questions so quickly!

 

[anon(596177)]

Really, at this point, unlocking and installing a custom ROM just seems like a huge pain. I suppose I could find a way to root without unlocking so I could make a backup, but again, pain. I used to flash a different ROM on my old Droid Incredible almost every week, but each ROM flash takes time (backup, actual ROM flash, restore), and it's time that I frankly would like to spend on something else at this point.

I'm not complaining about this phone, though. As much as I like having the latest stuff, I can wait another few weeks for Jelly Bean (which, given the recent leak, is all it will take), and my phone works better than my Dinc ever did without root. Maybe people shouldn't complain about the slow updates, but complaints about signal issues, etc are perfectly valid. The phone should work just fine out of the box. Mine does, but not everyone's does.

If you didnt unlock right when you got the phone, yes the process can be quite a pain in the rear end. And yes, every ROM you flash takes time out of your day, whether it be 15 mins or an hour and 15 mins. So those things are obvious drawbacks. And the biggest thing is you (personally) arent complaining about your phone's functionality, so really if you like the phone the way it is, power to you!