Pro-Root v. Anti-Root: Some Thoughts

[vivek615]

I just thought of another potential major problem but need someone to confirm because I haven't flashed Google's factory images.

The issue is that some of us have hardware v9 and some, like me, have v10.... restoring to factory stock means it should display the correct hardware version under baseband right?

But if I flashed the whole aosp factory image toro package couldn't it show the hardware version that the package is based upon? I'm guessing it would show v9 which would prove to Verizon that you modified your v10 phone.... enough to blow your warranty!,

Edit: I have absolutely no reason to believe this I would hope and assume that hardware version is hardwired, but it needs to be pointed out if the above is ,in fact, the case

Edit again: okay this is not a real issue read further on this thread

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[jova33]

Literally on the bootloader screen when you select either yes or no with the volume toggle. The "Yes...yada yada...may void your warranty" selection lol

Someone, unlock your bootloader and take a pic. I wanna see this.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[dmmarck]

I just thought of another potential major problem but need someone to confirm because I haven't flashed Google's factory images.

The issue is that some of us have hardware v9 and some, like me, have v10.... restoring to factory stock means it should display the correct hardware version under baseband right?

But if I flashed the whole aosp factory image toro package couldn't it show the hardware version that the package is based upon? I'm guessing it would show v9 which would prove to Verizon that you modified your v10 phone.... enough to blow your warranty!,

Edit: I have absolutely no reason to believe this I would hope and assume that hardware version is hardwired, but it needs to be pointed out if the above is ,in fact, the case

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

The hardware version is hardwired. I have heard of one VZW rep seeing a different number there (e.g. 9 instead of 10) and assuming that they had "rooted" their phone, but I can assure you this from flashing as much as I have on 4 different devices--the hardware version does not change. It is your hardware. If you have a 9 (like the majority of the early, Korean devices), you will always have a 9. If you have a 10 (like some of the newer makes) you will always have a 10.

 

[TabGuy]

Even doing a backup, you'd have to move it to your PC before unlocking. And you'd also have to move all your saved media(music and pictures) to PC. It is a real pain when you've got like 15 GB
saved to your phone. That's like an hour there, and another hour to move it all back, and add an hour to that when the wife bumps the USB cable and disconnects your device for a millisecond.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

It's simple. If it's too much work for you don't do it. Although it's probably a lot less work than you're spending on this forum complaining about it.

 

[dmmarck]

Just by using fastboot on Ubuntu/Mac/Windows here are the average times I think a user would see, based upon my own experiences:

• Backing up - depends on what you want; if everything is synced including photos and you use the cloud, you don't really need to do anything. But if you have 15 gigs of stuff on your internal/faux SDcard, it might take some time.
• Unlocking - the actual command is "fastboot oem unlock" followed by using the volume toggle to select yes and then hitting power to actually choose yes. That takes ~5 seconds.
• Rooting - if you're flashing a rom, this is superfluous. It'll be rooted. If you choose to root the stock device/OS, you have two options: (1) fastboot flash a recovery (takes 5 seconds) and then go there and use an adb command to push the superuser zip (takes 10-15 seconds if you know where you're going); (2) setup the phone as normal, let it restore (can take 20 minutes, can take 45 minutes--depends on your connection and the quantity/size of the apps that redownload. Once setup, you simply drop the SU zip on the SDcard, boot into the bootloader, fastboot the recovery, flash the zip, then reboot. Should take 2-3 minutes tops.
• Setting up - see above; can take 20-45 minutes.
• Flashing - including wipes, a flashing session (not including setup) takes 3-5 minutes. If you make a backup, that'll take anywhere between 3-7 minutes depending on which recovery you use.

 

[jova33]

It's simple. If it's too much work for you don't do it. Although it's probably a lot less work than you're spending on this forum complaining about it.

I've already done it. I'm just saying if you've already got everything set up and gigabytes of stuff on your phone, it's a PITA to have to transfer everything to PC and back to phone.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[7stringer]

I've already done it. I'm just saying if you've already got everything set up and gigabytes of stuff on your phone, it's a PITA to have to transfer everything to PC and back to phone.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Well, once you unlock the bootloader, anything on the SD card will remain in tact between flashing new ROMs. Photos, files, music, etc. The first time unlocking is a pain if you waited months after buying the phone and need to backup copious amounts of data.

Every time I flash a new ROM, I'm up and running -fully- within 25 mins. Email setup, apps logged into, wallpapers set, etc.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk 2

 

[jova33]

Less time if you dirty flash and skip the nandroid
I haven't done a nandroid in over a month. If I flash something my phone doesn't agree with, I just dirty flash the last ROM my phone did agree with.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TabGuy]

I've already done it. I'm just saying if you've already got everything set up and gigabytes of stuff on your phone, it's a PITA to have to transfer everything to PC and back to phone.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Ah, yes. Some of us enjoy that process.

 

[dmmarck]

Ah, yes. Some of us enjoy that process.

I do. Absolutely love a clean flash. Like I have a new phone.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk 2

 

[vivek615]

(Man everything I'm posting is so "anti-root" even though I'm not stock lol) Anyways... I have my reservations about whether we should call root a good thing or not (bear with me because I'm asking for help in completing an incomplete thought ) Anyways... in simplest terms root is "good" because it gives us access to things that some of us like as users right?

However... root access only exists because Android was left with a massive security hole... (obviously exception of original developer phones which were supposed to have su) The guy who created ClockWorkMod gave us a way to allow us to have such access without compromising security in an extreme way like it used to be... but all the same this security is because of modern SOP not inherent right? Meaning its still possible to add the switch user "feature" without the security we take for granted.

I feel that the some of us Android users do not always like to acknowledge that root is not a feature, but actually is a security hole. What gets me is that I have seen so many tech sites advising GNex owners to immediately unlock their bootloaders as soon as they get their phones whether they want to root or not! ( "Hey this will save you from wiping your data later and you can easily relock your phones with no warranty repurcussions")

It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it does leave you open to having your phone rooted and exploited.

On the other hand... there is clearly a reason we want to use our phones the way we do.. This "security flaw" is a flaw because it is based on a form of security that involves restricting capabilties...

But then again... its a lot easier to steal somebody's mobile device than a pc or even laptop... So isn't sacrificing some of the functionality of a home computer a good idea in the interest of security?

Basically this all leads me to the conclusion (which I'm obviously not the first to say)

Different people will come to different conclusions on what the appropriate level of security is for their device, but it's a good idea to really understand the tradeoffs we take when we unlock or add the su command.

Also (and maybe I'm wrong) but it makes even less sense to say that "everybody should root the Gnex" than to say "nobody should root or unlock the Gnex unless they have absolutely no other way to achieve their goals and are as fully aware of the risks as possible" (I think both statements are flawed actually but the second is pretty close to the truth)

I guess I'm coming to the opinion that unlocking and/or rooting should never be done without considering the tradeoff and should never be done unless there is no other way to achieve ones desired goals?

Is this right?

 

[jova33]

It's not a security hole. The option is there. A security hole would be if it was unintentional that users could unlock the bootloader.
Other android devices which are completely locked down, where people obtain root privileges through an exploit, that's a security hole.

Does rooting your device create potential holes in security? Probably.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[vivek615]

I meant root on the original non Dev Android phones originated as a security hole ( those phones were not designed to allow the su command)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[jova33]

Well the nexus devices are AOSP. all other versions of android are basically custom ROMs developed by cell phone manufacturers. AOSP is unlockable by default.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[HalizDad]

I used to root all my phones...just so I could get pure Android installed and avoid all the annoying Sense and Touchwiz crashes. When my Evo got destroyed by a fenced, albeit still-capable-of-eating-me wild animal I simply bought the truest android phone available. I'm not rooting this one. Perhaps.

 

[TabGuy]

I used to root all my phones...just so I could get pure Android installed and avoid all the annoying Sense and Touchwiz crashes. When my Evo got destroyed by a fenced, albeit still-capable-of-eating-me wild animal I simply bought the truest android phone available. I'm not rooting this one. Perhaps.

I waited 6 months to root and flash JB ROMs for the same reasons as you. Now, I wonder why I waited. My wife and two daughters have the unrooted GNEX and when I have to use their phones for one reason or another I feel I've gone back to the dark ages. Using a custom JB ROM makes life so much easier on a day to day basis. I couldn't imaging going back to stock ICS with only three buttons on the navigation bar.

 

[HalizDad]

I may root it down the line, but will be waiting until the official JB ROM comes out and I flash it first. Regardless, it will be a while before I do. I just got tired of dealing with new problems every time I tried a different ROM on any of my phones. I have yet to find one that's any better than stock, although they have better functionality. I'm talking about one that doesn't crash less often or have some annoying glitch in it.

 

[davidnc]

I guess I am in the pro root camp since all my phones have been rooted.When I got my first android phone I thought I would never root.I had no real reason to,everything worked so it wasn't like I was trying to fix anything.I dont tether well ok once in a while to my ipod touch but I haven't even turned it on in a few months.I can understand while some dont want to root though and its all just what your into doing with your phone.
Anytime before I get a new phone I research it to see the process for rooting it .I make sure I understand how to unlock/root and also how go back to factory before I even tweak on it lol .

 

[TabGuy]

I may root it down the line, but will be waiting until the official JB ROM comes out and I flash it first. Regardless, it will be a while before I do. I just got tired of dealing with new problems every time I tried a different ROM on any of my phones. I have yet to find one that's any better than stock, although they have better functionality. I'm talking about one that doesn't crash less often or have some annoying glitch in it.

Out of curiosity, what problems are you referring to with ROMs? I've been testing various ROMs since June, finally settling on CodeName Android, and have not found any problems. Seriously. In fact, with the new radios installed one might argue that the latest JB ROMs are more reliable and better performing than stock.

Believe me, if there were issues, I'd be back to stock in a flash. (Pun intended.)

 

[2defmouze]

I may root it down the line, but will be waiting until the official JB ROM comes out and I flash it first. Regardless, it will be a while before I do. I just got tired of dealing with new problems every time I tried a different ROM on any of my phones. I have yet to find one that's any better than stock, although they have better functionality. I'm talking about one that doesn't crash less often or have some annoying glitch in it.

Out of curiosity, what problems are you referring to with ROMs? I've been testing various ROMs since June, finally settling on CodeName Android, and have not found any problems. Seriously. In fact, with the new radios installed one might argue that the latest JB ROMs are more reliable and better performing than stock.

Believe me, if there were issues, I'd be back to stock in a flash. (Pun intended.)

Most who feel there are issues with ROMs either:
1. Flashed unstable ROMs. Sounds basic.. but if you scroll through the development section at a place like rootzwiki, you'll see over a dozen ROMs, and a less-informed user can have a hard time knowing or realizing that some devs are just not that good, lol. If you ask us in the rooting section we will always steer you toward proven, stable AOSP-based ROMs.. such as CM10, AOKP, or Bugless Beast. There are others and I hate to exclude any devs hard work, but these are the best choices for someone looking for stability.

2. Come from a history with a different phone and earlier days of development. Dev's have come a long way in a short time and there are a lot of very stable options like I mentioned above. And building for the Nexus is sooo much inherently easier / more stable than any other phone. It's an AOSP-supported device and the bootloader is readily unlockable. No other non-nexus phones are as easy for developers to build ROMs for, and it shows in the finishe products