Really? Why all the Sprint/Samsung hate over Froyo?

[SomeAudioGuy]

Just buy a Epic 4g one of the best smartphone ever made, then root it, get a the custom Rom and get a kernel such as Genocide 1.2 Ghz 0.3.
And enjoy it with all your heart.

Problem with this line of thinking is, that by giving Samsung your money KNOWING they wont provide timely support, you are ENCOURAGING them to continue NOT supporting their phones.

Yes. we can root. If you're on this forum, that means you're probably more capable than the average smartphone user. However, we can only push so far with the phone without Samsung. If we could ACTUALLY support our own phones, then all Epics would already be running 2.3. We can only tweak within the most recent software update provided by Samsung if we want ANY semblance stability.

The updates from 2.2 to 2.3 to 2.4 address several security concerns, not the least of which is a browser exploit that can give an attacker access to the info on your SD Card. Is that a likely attack? No. It's not. But as our devices get more complicated, as we ask more of our devices, as we put more of our personal info on them, security gets more important, not less important. Bug fixes become MORE important, not less.

As a result, the Epic will be the last Samsung phone I will own. I really feel I made a mistake leaving HTC. I'll also have to seriously weigh my options on sticking with Android as a platform. The massive disconnect between Google, Manufacturers, Carriers, and customers makes getting even simple maintenance updates about as painful as Windows Mobile was.

If no manufacturer can find a way to bypass the carriers, or if Google can't find a way to sell more phones on its own directly to consumers bypassing BOTH manufacturers and carriers (without making me jump ship to another carrier to do it), then it'll be time for me to take my money and give it to someone who can.

 

[Ontopofthegame]

OP Thats a great question... I ask myself the same thing

Here is my take on it. Should the Epic have Froyo? Yes. Should we blacklist Samsung for it? NO! Every manufacture has had problems or delayed updates even with froyo. Htc track record is far from perfect ask any Droid Eris or htc Touch owner. The Evo was Sprint flagship 4g Wimax phone it had to have 2.2 first to keep them competitive. The Evo was a new bread of phone and it has horrible battery life. The Epic on the other hand is just one of many Top Samsung flagship devices. Samsung has had to update at least 5 different version of the Galaxy S lineup Epic included. Even though the Epic is clearly the best of the bunch, its also the most difficult its running a different version of Touchwiz and it is the only one with a full keyboard. Comparing the speed of the Epic update to the Evo is like apples and oranges. Htc only had to update one phone! Which htc failed at and had issues while updating the Evo. Samsung is faced with updating five or more versions simultaneously and then handing it over to the carriers to place there custom bloatware on top, samsung may still play a very heavy roll in this process as well. Sprint made it a priority to push out the update to the Evo so they had there ducks in a row ready to install and roll out the Evo update issues and all. Im surprised at how many people are complaining about this update. Sounds like iphone and evo envy to me. Grow up people! Samsung has made a great product and Sprint is a great carrier on top of that the Epic is still the best smartphone currently available per PC World and a slew of other sources. If you want to complain do it to samsung not on some forum they will never read! That's how you get results any smart person knows this. Think about it Sprint is pushing the update over the air. Before att and verizon! tmobile customers had to use some bs mini kies that caused more head ache then relief. Learn to like you phone for what you bought not the update you plan to get. Htc, Samsung, Motorola, and lg all suck or have issues updating phones!!! So dropping Samsung in favor of htc will not fix the problem... contacting the manufactures and carriers responsible will!

 

[cordoni]

Here is my take on it. Should the Epic have Froyo? Yes. Should we blacklist Samsung for it? NO! Every manufacture has had problems or delayed updates even with froyo. Htc track record is far from perfect ask any Droid Eris or htc Touch owner. The Evo was Sprint flagship 4g Wimax phone it had to have 2.2 first to keep them competitive. The Evo was a new bread of phone and it has horrible battery life. The Epic on the other hand is just one of many Top Samsung flagship devices. Samsung has had to update at least 5 different version of the Galaxy S lineup Epic included. Even though the Epic is clearly the best of the bunch, its also the most difficult its running a different version of Touchwiz and it is the only one with a full keyboard. Comparing the speed of the Epic update to the Evo is like apples and oranges. Htc only had to update one phone! Which htc failed at and had issues while updating the Evo. Samsung is faced with updating five or more versions simultaneously and then handing it over to the carriers to place there custom bloatware on top, samsung may still play a very heavy roll in this process as well. Sprint made it a priority to push out the update to the Evo so they had there ducks in a row ready to install and roll out the Evo update issues and all. Im surprised at how many people are complaining about this update. Sounds like iphone and evo envy to me. Grow up people! Samsung has made a great product and Sprint is a great carrier on top of that the Epic is still the best smartphone currently available per PC World and a slew of other sources. If you want to complain do it to samsung not on some forum they will never read! That's how you get results any smart person knows this. Think about it Sprint is pushing the update over the air. Before att and verizon! tmobile customers had to use some bs mini kies that caused more head ache then relief. Learn to like you phone for what you bought not the update you plan to get. Htc, Samsung, Motorola, and lg all suck or have issues updating phones!!! So dropping Samsung in favor of htc will not fix the problem... contacting the manufactures and carriers responsible will!

Something called a paragraph?
Yeah, I'm a smart a$$.

Sent from my Froyo Fascinate using Tapatalk.

 

[silverthornne]

....*snip* I bought the latest and greatest HP desktop a while back. 7 months later windows 7 came out. My computers hardware specs were well above what was required by the software. Did HP think to update my computer with windows 7? *snip*.... But software was never the hardware manufacturers forte nor is it what they do best and that's ok by me. *snip*

I guess this is where the big difference lies in the way we think. Eclair to Froyo is not what I would consider a full version upgrade such as going from Win Versions. There is also the matter of cost - MS charges for Windows. Google does not charge for Android. Also, had the PC included one of those notices that it would get Win 7 when it released, you most certainly would have gotten it. Finally, the interesting part is that PC not giving you Win 7 for free, at least doesn't stop the Windows Update Service either right? That's why a Windows Vista PC which includes DirectX 10 can upgrade itself to use DirectX 11, which is included by Win 7 if it meets with the requirements.

Anyway, maybe the topic uses too strong a word with 'hate', as I don't hate Samsung nor Sprint. I own a lot of Samsung displays and Sprint gives me the best coverage where I live, but I do believe that it is important to bring these issues to light because there are many companies that sell smartphones and there is no reason why they should believe that they deserve repeat customers when they forget about supporting that product that usually needs to do well for at least 2 years. That's my $0.02 anyway.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[Skunkape60]

Again, you guys are a very small percentage of the phone market. No one cares if you are loyal to their brand. The manufacturers can give a hoot about brand loyalty. They know that customers lost today will end up coming back eventually.

In the last 15 years i've been on every major wireless carrier. Each time I left a carrier I swore I'd never return. Guess what? I am now back with sprint.

Lets go back to that 10% share that you represent. Your brand loyalty is unimportant as long as the manufacturer can satisfy that 80% market that finds their product satisfactory.

I hate to be the bearer off the bad news but this is the same for all large manufacturers not just samsung.

Sent from my Epic using Tapatalk

 

[dchawk81]

People keep saying that they bought the Epic under the assumption/promise that they'd get Froyo soon. I never got a notice from Samsung saying that I'd get Froyo. I didn't even know what was already installed when I was looking at it and ultimately bought it, and no mention of updates was ever made.

When did they include the Froyo Promise as part of their sales pitch/marketing? Can someone show me a flyer or video or some kind of advertisement?

 

[Paul627g]

I purchased the Epic due to its hardware and the features it brought to the table. OS's come and go, we can root and change our phones to our own likings so the OS doesn't mean much to me. I still am very happy with my phone despite all the problems over the update. I did say not to expect the update to be smooth and it turned out I was correct that something ended up going bad.

I think until Google and the device makers sit down and set the guidelines things are going to be crazy from one phone to the next. Freedom among the devices are nice but as we can already see its been hard on update allowing each company to put whatever UI changes they want on the phones example, Touch Wiz.

Bottom line Android will only get stronger and eventually the devices will all form a common bond with Google and get the kinks worked out.

 

[jrz5024]

You buy a brand new car...they don't upgrade it for free...ever. You can't get new parts just because they were developed...and new cars cost a helluva lot more than a phone. You want your car to act like a new car? Upgrade it yourself and install your own parts (root it and flash a custom ROM).

This is a flawed analogy because 1) cars generally don't have software, and those that DO have software (GPS and the like) ARE supported and regularly updated by the manufacturer.

2) Cars are released in perfect working order, and if they aren't (i.e., toyota's alleged unintended acceleration problems) the problem is promptly investigated, a recall is issued and the problem is fixed. Many components of Eclair were broken on the Epic (GPS, TWS bug, etc), and I don't see Sammy issuing any recalls. Or even really trying to fix it, as the TWS bug in particular was still present in the EB13 build.

Exactly. Evo envy. At least you can admit it

What the heck is Evo Envy? My hate is directly squarely at Sammy's software, not their hardware - Hummingbird > Snapdragon, sAMOLED > LCD, 'nuff said.

random babbles

tl;dr, no spaces.

When did they include the Froyo Promise as part of their sales pitch/marketing? Can someone show me a flyer or video or some kind of advertisement?

For me personally, the Sprint salesperson promised me it would be released, and I quote, "any day now, at most a matter of weeks." That does not indicate a wait time of over half a year. Obviously it's my fault for trusting a salesperson, but I guess I naively assumed they wouldn't be able to flat out lie to my face to make a sale, and I was still uninformed of how the Android update process works.

 

[dchawk81]

This is a flawed analogy because 1) cars generally don't have software, and those that DO have software (GPS and the like) ARE supported and regularly updated by the manufacturer.

2) Cars are released in perfect working order, and if they aren't (i.e., toyota's alleged unintended acceleration problems) the problem is promptly investigated, a recall is issued and the problem is fixed. Many components of Eclair were broken on the Epic (GPS, TWS bug, etc), and I don't see Sammy issuing any recalls. Or even really trying to fix it, as the TWS bug in particular was still present in the EB13 build.



What the heck is Evo Envy? My hate is directly squarely at Sammy's software, not their hardware - Hummingbird > Snapdragon, sAMOLED > LCD, 'nuff said.



tl;dr, no spaces.



For me personally, the Sprint salesperson promised me it would be released, and I quote, "any day now, at most a matter of weeks." That does not indicate a wait time of over half a year. Obviously it's my fault for trusting a salesperson, but I guess I naively assumed they wouldn't be able to flat out lie to my face to make a sale, and I was still uninformed of how the Android update process works.

You're right...the car analogy is bad because those systems are closed ie proprietary. You want "just works"? Get an iPhone.

Oh and recalls don't exist due to customer dissatisfaction alone. They're almost always safety issues. Customer dissatisfaction is the byproduct but it's not the reason.

I figured you'd say it was a salesman. You're a fool if you bought the Epic on the word of a salesperson. A Sprint employee making probably slightly more than minimum wage is hardly an authoritative source. Everyone should take a salesman's word with a grain of salt...no matter what they're hawking.

 

[Skunkape60]

This is a flawed analogy because 1) cars generally don't have software, and those that DO have software (GPS and the like) ARE supported and regularly updated by the manufacturer.

2) Cars are released in perfect working order, and if they aren't (i.e., toyota's alleged unintended acceleration problems) the problem is promptly investigated, a recall is issued and the problem is fixed. Many components of Eclair were broken on the Epic (GPS, TWS bug, etc), and I don't see Sammy issuing any recalls. Or even really trying to fix it, as the TWS bug in particular was still present in the EB13 build.



What the heck is Evo Envy? My hate is directly squarely at Sammy's software, not their hardware - Hummingbird > Snapdragon, sAMOLED > LCD, 'nuff said.



tl;dr, no spaces.



For me personally, the Sprint salesperson promised me it would be released, and I quote, "any day now, at most a matter of weeks." That does not indicate a wait time of over half a year. Obviously it's my fault for trusting a salesperson, but I guess I naively assumed they wouldn't be able to flat out lie to my face to make a sale, and I was still uninformed of how the Android update process works.

Then you should blame sprint. Not samsung.

Sent from my Epic using Tapatalk

 

[HAAS599]

I agree with OP.

I don't get it either. Samsung missed the deadline by 2 months, big deal.

If you root and flash ROMs then you had access to Froyo in December.

 

[AndroidXTC]

I agree with OP.

I don't get it either. Samsung missed the deadline by 2 months, big deal.

If you root and flash ROMs then you had access to Froyo in December.

Hello? We still don't have 2.2 It was pulled because it was defective. A defective copy of 2.2 isn't "mission accomplished" IMO. Furthermore some users never even got the defective copy pushed to them. They are the lucky ones IMO.

 

[HAAS599]

Hello? We still don't have 2.2 It was pulled because it was defective. A defective copy of 2.2 isn't "mission accomplished" IMO. Furthermore some users never even got the defective copy pushed to them. They are the lucky ones IMO.

Well I'm on EB13 and my phone is fine. Some people are happy with the DK28 build.

The download is out there for manual updating. If you don't have it, its your own fault.

So are you upset or happy that you don't have 2.2?

 

[dllb]

Err, huh?

Do you even read these forums?

The OTA update has been stopped, the update on the Samsung website is still there. Anyone that wants a 2.2 update can still get it. Most people that use the one from the Samsung site have no problem other than the known bugs.

Yes, it has a few bugs. What doesn't?

Use it, don't use it. That's up to you.

I don't see this as any worse than some of the buggy roms people have put out. What's the big deal?

Maybe you shouldn't listen to the other half empty cup people so much? hmm? Lol

Hello? We still don't have 2.2 It was pulled because it was defective. A defective copy of 2.2 isn't "mission accomplished" IMO. Furthermore some users never even got the defective copy pushed to them. They are the lucky ones IMO.

 

[jrz5024]

I figured you'd say it was a salesman. You're a fool if you bought the Epic on the word of a salesperson. A Sprint employee making probably slightly more than minimum wage is hardly an authoritative source. Everyone should take a salesman's word with a grain of salt...no matter what they're hawking.

Then you should blame sprint. Not samsung.

Yes, I mentioned that I should have taken his word with a grain of salt. However, I don't take fault with the employee, because he was misled just like I was. He made a statement he shouldn't have made, sure. But nobody expected Froyo to take this long, not even cynics like me who knew Sammy's track record going into the purchase. I knew full well that their software support sucked and took a risk because the hardware was gorgeous and the devs at AC / XDA are quite honestly head and shoulders better than anyone at Samsung. I guess I was just hoping they might surprise me by, I don't know, DOING THEIR JOBS this one time.

Even ignoring the new features in Froyo, let's not forget that one of the biggest reasons people want it is to fix the serious issues in Eclair. Pretend I'm average joe non-rooter. I bought this phone in September, and 6 months later there are still serious flaws with the software - GPS is broken, battery life is horrible, FCs and lag are common, etc etc. These aren't theoretical problems, these are all issues I personally faced when I bought my Epic. In fact, the reason I got into the rooting scene in the first place was because I wanted to fix such problems and was sick of waiting for Samsung to do it. Dl18, as released, was not completed software, and it still isn't, and that I find even more damning than the wait for Froyo.

 

[SomeAudioGuy]

Yes.
We can continue to try and marginalize those of us on these forums because we're "only a small percentage of the buying public", but we're the loudest, and if you're anything like me, you make tech buying decisions for a lot of people in your immediate circle of friends and family.

Over the last month I have convinced four people to get Evo Shifts instead of Epics. I've convinced two people to wait for future phones. One person is now on Windows Phone 7, and another just got an Attrix.

In all, eight people over the last month, who liked my phone when I first got it, will NOT be buying it based on my recommendation.

I will probably not reverse this trend until I see how Samsung's NEXT generation of phones are supported.

 

[sneezy316]

Samsung/Sprint did promise 2.2 to fix the media dock audio output issue. While 2.2 is not out yet, and they are saying they are working on EB13 fix, it did not support the dock issue until a community patch came out. They are not done, but they are doing a poor job. I believe there is a sticker on the media dock as a disclaimer. We did pay $250 of our hard earned money for this phone. That is $50 more than most new gen top tier phones... just my thoughts. I really want to give more stars but this is like a 3/5 stars thing. They can do a better job.

 

[Skunkape60]

Even ignoring the new features in Froyo, let's not forget that one of the biggest reasons people want it is to fix the serious issues in Eclair. Pretend I'm average joe non-rooter. I bought this phone in September, and 6 months later there are still serious flaws with the software - GPS is broken, battery life is horrible, FCs and lag are common, etc etc. These aren't theoretical problems, these are all issues I personally faced when I bought my Epic. In fact, the reason I got into the rooting scene in the first place was because I wanted to fix such problems and was sick of waiting for Samsung to do it. Dl18, as released, was not completed software, and it still isn't, and that I find even more damning than the wait for Froyo.

Perhaps you needed to do what I did.

My epic with eclair was driving me crazy. Restarting itself, locking up and requiring battery pulls at least two times a day. I mentioned the problems I was having and was seriously thinking of rooting and installing a froyo rom as I thought it was all software issues that would be fixed with froyo.

Then one day I was told (by a guy here) to return my phone because eclair was very stable. Well I turned in my phone (thinking it wouldn't help) for a new one about 1.5 months ago. My new phone has been 100% problem free. Since it was replaced I have NOT HAD A SINGLE LOCK UP, REBOOT, LAGGING OR FORCED CLOSE. Period... Never have I had a single instance where my gps failed me or any other issue for that matter.

As a matter of fact it is working so well I haven't worried one bit about froyo or when it will come out as I doubt it will ever be more stable than eclair. The only thing that I would like fixed is time without signal.

Perhaps instead of blaming the software you should replace your phone. There is a good chance this is your main problem as eclair is very stable. I know 3 others who had the same issues you have. After finally getting tired of me telling them to replace their phones, they did. And they had the same experience that I had.

If I complain about samsung, it will be about the bad phones they put out and not the software. I have 5 friends with the epic's. 3 of the 5 replaced their phones and all of them solved their problems with the replacements. So just in my little group of epic owners 4 of 6 (including me) got bad phones with their 1st epics.

Again... If your phone is lagging, locking up rebooting itself or having major issues with force closing with eclair, do yourself a favor and get your phone replaced because eclair is VERY stable.

 

[Balzak]

I flashed dk28 and eb13 and didnt like some of the bugs and went back to eclair with baked snack both times. I was promised when I bought the phone that froyo was just around the corner and 4g was coming to my area by the end of the year (2010). Checks in the mail I guess. Replace my 4g tax with a smartphone tax.. Tomatoe, tomato. The only thing worse than a salesperson is the fool who listens to them.

Anyway, I love the epic's hardware and my custom ROM is great. My problem is that with two year contracts and with many other phone makers updating their phones, I feel that Sammy has left us in the lurch as they target new customers with bigger and better. Do they have an obligation to update the Epic..no. Did HTC have an obligation to update the EVO.. no but they did.

I know that in the future when my contract is up, I will pay more attention to manufactures who continue to update their phones software - provided the hardware can handle the update. This frustration could all be for not with the potential leak of 2.3 for the Galaxy's.

 

[jrz5024]

Perhaps you needed to do what I did.

...

Again... If your phone is lagging, locking up rebooting itself or having major issues with force closing with eclair, do yourself a favor and get your phone replaced because eclair is VERY stable.

That would make sense, unless rooting and installing a custom rom hadn't fixed all of my problems =/