This Kind of Makes Sense: A Case FOR Task Killing

[Caitlyn McKenzie]

Vincent Law has consistently taken a bullying, "You're stupid. You don't know anything. Don't use task killers!", tone in his posts on the subject but never bothers to provide anything beyond "cuz I said so" reasons for his views. On the merged task killer thread I got so sick of his useless arrogance, I drafted a point by point rebuttal/put up or STFU post but then saved it because it was late, I was tired, and I didn't want to start an unnecessary flame war. However, it appears it may be necessary to be had. Here is one non-incendiary part of that post:

Actually, this is the very first time I've been direct about my displeasure of others recommending ATK in this fashion. Your ideas of "bullying" are horribly exaggerated, when in fact my posts have been backed up by other knowledgeable members of this forum. I have absolutely no need nor point in starting a flamewar over it, and I won't. So keep it clean and we can discuss this, or start flaming and I will just stop posting and start reporting.

When people are experiencing terrible battery life with their stock phones, but are able to double the run time and not experience any usability issues after properly configuring a task killer, WHAT'S THE FREAKING PROBLEM?!? Are task killers doing their black magic like a bizzaro version of Ned on Pushing Daisies and for every app killed, a masturbating kitten somewhere also dies? (Ummm...I may be getting my Internet memes mixed up.)

People have crap battery life, add a task killer, get better battery life, don't seem to have any problems with getting mail or alarms or whatever and are now happy. If Vince can stop selling Slap-Chops for a moment and explain how exactly we're meddling with the natural order of things, I'm sure we could benefit from his wisdom.

"Properly configuring a task killer" is the issue here. This is rarely explained, and when it is, it's only AFTER the user has been having issues for a while and did not understand the problem. I already referenced a specific occurrence of this.

Besides, if you know how to properly configure it for better battery life, then it should be just as simple to solve the actual problem in the first place! Feel free to explain how I'm wrong in that.

Like George Carlin said in a joke, buying a safe car doesn't excuse you from having to learn how to drive the thing. First, you learn how to drive, THEN you buy your safe car.

Similar fashion, using ATK doesn't excuse you from knowing how to properly manage your open apps. First, you determine what you should and shouldn't kill, THEN you use ATK to your hearts content.

Why not just figure out the problem app in the first place then and save everyone a lot of time and pain?

 

[TreyDaPrince]

Vincent, I spent all last week doing what you are doing and I came to this conclusion:

As with most things, people are gonna do what they wanna do. I am no longer addressing this issue but this is mere help to you. Let it go...for your sanity's sate.

Hopefully you're not an Evo owner therefore you don't have to go into the Evo forum everyday and listen to this. If you are, well, God bless you son...

 

[Caitlyn McKenzie]

Actually I own an iPhone...

No I'm kidding, I do have an EVO though. But it is making me wonder if the words are wasted. I may just say screw it and let them have their way, my time could be better spent helping people who do want to listen. I'll admit I'm abrasive, but I don't flame, and I don't say things without at least some grounds behind them.

 

[IQmatic]

I am a new Evo user and a new Android user, my first impression seems to align with Vincent Law. I have a pretty good battery life without installing a Task killer, i just keep a close eye on what i am installing, and what is currently running by just checking running application. Then, if necessary, I can manually kill the process, although I try not to. I also pay attention and exit applications I am not going to come back to (like Dolphin browser). I might have to test the task killer just to form a fair judgment, but i will probably do that later. I also think that this approach (paying attention to what you install) is in general good in the long run. I hate having a lot of crap, poorly written apps on my phone (I also hate it on my Ipod Touch).

 

[Delta1#AC]

Vincent
Forgive me if you have posted the answer to this question previously. If a person is going to use a task killer such as ATK; can you list the specific applications or services you recommend a person can kill safely and those that should be left alone?

 

[88 FLUX]

Vincent
Forgive me if you have posted the answer to this question previously. If a person is going to use a task killer such as ATK; can you list the specific applications or services you recommend a person can kill safely and those that should be left alone?

My name might not be Vincent, but my answer to that question would be that ATK is safe to use for apps such as the camera, gallery, any games, emulators, or any other "random use apps" such as Photoshop.com, IM apps (when not using, obviously), or any apps that may boot at startup that you will not be using. For example, I have four different Twitter apps on my phone. I only use one mainly but I have the others for random usage. But they all boot into idle state upon startup. Not needed.

I do NOT recommend killing apps like Gmail, your main Twitter app (if you use Twitter), or any other type of app that pulls in auto updates that you want push notifications for. In addition, don't kill any app tied to a widget.

Android does handle task management on it's own. But Vincent, it does NOT do it as efficiently as you seem to think it does. Based on your logic, the Market should just be eliminated since the selection of apps that are given the Vince seal of approval would probably reduce the app selection down to a handful.

 

[Caitlyn McKenzie]

Android does handle task management on it's own. But Vincent, it does NOT do it as efficiently as you seem to think it does. Based on your logic, the Market should just be eliminated since the selection of apps that are given the Vince seal of approval would probably reduce the app selection down to a handful.

Not really. Most apps don't have any sort of multitasking, and thus have no opportunity to suck battery, or also any reason to be killed by ATK.

 

[meyerweb#CB]

There's no magic about task killers, and it's not really all that hard to figure out how to set them up. There's an excellent guide right here on this forum:

http://www.androidcentral.com/how-properly-set-and-use-task-killer-oh-yes-i-went-there

To Vincent: Instead of just criticizing the concept of task killers, maybe you could provide something actually useful by explaining HOW a user might go about figuring out which programs are causing problems. And how, without a task killer, one goes about dealing with those built-in, non-removable programs that eat the battery. Certainly you're not going to suggest rooting the phone to people you don't think are competent to configure ATK.

 

[88 FLUX]

There's no magic about task killers, and it's not really all that hard to figure out how to set them up. There's an excellent guide right here on this forum:

http://www.androidcentral.com/how-properly-set-and-use-task-killer-oh-yes-i-went-there

To Vincent: Instead of just criticizing the concept of task killers, maybe you could provide something actually useful by explaining HOW a user might go about figuring out which programs are causing problems. And how, without a task killer, one goes about dealing with those built-in, non-removable programs that eat the battery. Certainly you're not going to suggest rooting the phone to people you don't think are competent to configure ATK.

I had a dog, and his name was BINGO.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Actually I own an iPhone...

No I'm kidding, I do have an EVO though. But it is making me wonder if the words are wasted. I may just say screw it and let them have their way, my time could be better spent helping people who do want to listen. I'll admit I'm abrasive, but I don't flame, and I don't say things without at least some grounds behind them.

Your words are wasted.

I can give a thousand examples from the source code of Android itself that apps staying resident in unused RAM have just about 0 impact on battery life, but it does no good. I know, because I've done it.

People want an easy solution that also makes them feel better about the money they have spent on their new phone. I just let them carry on and skip to the next thread, like I'm going to do now

*edit*
For the sake of full disclosure, I'm the author of the article referenced 2 posts up. If you're going to insist on using a task killer, please read it.

 

[meyerweb#CB]

Your words are wasted.

I can give a thousand examples from the source code of Android itself that well behaved apps staying resident in unused RAM have just about 0 impact on battery life, but it does no good. I know, because I've done it.

Would the above edit perhaps be more accurate?

 

[88 FLUX]

Your words are wasted.

I can give a thousand examples from the source code of Android itself that apps staying resident in unused RAM have just about 0 impact on battery life, but it does no good. I know, because I've done it.

People want an easy solution that also makes them feel better about the money they have spent on their new phone. I just let them carry on and skip to the next thread, like I'm going to do now

*edit*
For the sake of full disclosure, I'm the author of the article referenced 2 posts up. If you're going to insist on using a task killer, please read it.

I cannot speak for anyone else but trust me when I say that I fully agree with what you say and I even agree with some of Vincent's points. I just personally agree that Vincent is way too extreme in his view of the subject.

As I've said, it's not a matter of "use a task manager or don't use a task manager". It's a matter of "IF you're going to use a task manager, use it properly and if you do, it can potentially help your situation."

To repeat myself, Android does handle task management on it's own. And it does it quite well. But once you throw third party apps into the mix, sometimes you need to look towards other options.

I'm going to quote part of your article below. Because this is, without a doubt, the ONLY thing I do with ATK. Very big stress on ONLY. I may not be a world elitist in the Linux environment but I do have enough background and experience in it to know that what I do with my device definitely helps.

The best easiest least complicated way to use a task killer is to open it and manually kill off things you're sure you don't need whenever you feel things have slowed down. The trick is knowing what else won't work if you kill off an app. Things like games, web browsers, dictionaries or other stand alone apps are usually a safe bet to kill off if you find them running. In the example above Astro File Manager is running because I was looking for a file I had downloaded. I'm done with Astro, so there is no need for it to stay running. I could safely kill it off, and nothing else would be affected.

I don't do anything else with ATK. And I personally don't think others should either. But that still goes against Vincent who makes it sound like third party task management is a devilish tool handed to the Market by the hands of everything evil in the universe.

 

[deparson]

I just installed and configured ATK so I will report back in 24 hours how it is going. Battery usage on my Evo has been crazy bad.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Would the above edit perhaps be more accurate?

Yes and no. A misbehaving app doesn't sit resident in unused ram, it stays active.

That is the whole key.

I cannot speak for anyone else but trust me when I say that I fully agree with what you say and I even agree with some of Vincent's points. I just personally agree that Vincent is way too extreme in his view of the subject.

As I've said, it's not a matter of "use a task manager or don't use a task manager". It's a matter of "IF you're going to use a task manager, use it properly and if you do, it can potentially help your situation."

To repeat myself, Android does handle task management on it's own. And it does it quite well. But once you throw third party apps into the mix, sometimes you need to look towards other options.

I'm going to quote part of your article below. Because this is, without a doubt, the ONLY thing I do with ATK. Very big stress on ONLY. I may not be a world elitist in the Linux environment but I do have enough background and experience in it to know that what I do with my device definitely helps.



I don't do anything else with ATK. And I personally don't think others should either. But that still goes against Vincent who makes it sound like third party task management is a devilish tool handed to the Market by the hands of everything evil in the universe.

You have a perfect understanding. I surely didn't mean to sound like I was singling you (or anyone) out.

My issue is that we have a whole lotta people from iPhones and Blackberries that have about zero clue, and they can really screw things up just using a task manager/killer app.

By all means keep trying to educate, that's what we try to do here. My advice about just moving on instead of wasting time only applies to trying to explain the technical process and why it usually makes no difference (as Vincent is doing) to people that don't care to understand, or just don't have the background to understand.

as you can see, I have a hard time translating tech speak into normal speak lol.

 

[88 FLUX]

Yes and no. A misbehaving app doesn't sit resident in unused ram, it stays active.

That is the whole key.



You have a perfect understanding. I surely didn't mean to sound like I was singling you (or anyone) out.

My issue is that we have a whole lotta people from iPhones and Blackberries that have about zero clue, and they can really screw things up just using a task manager/killer app.

By all means keep trying to educate, that's what we try to do here. My advice about just moving on instead of wasting time only applies to trying to explain the technical process and why it usually makes no difference (as Vincent is doing) to people that don't care to understand, or just don't have the background to understand.

as you can see, I have a hard time translating tech speak into normal speak lol.

You have, once again, proven your worth to the tech community. Because you have once again hit the nail on the head. You're absolutely right, people can easily screw things up if they do not use a task manager properly. Same principle applies outside of the task management topic too (I can only imagine someone trying to root their N1 without reading background information and thinking they can dive right into it with half-assed instructions found on a random page).

With that being said, I too will walk away from the thread. I will leave it with this last little blurb:

To everyone, Vincent does make a valid point that Android handles it's own task management efficiently. But only to a certain extent and it only performs it well when handling it's own native apps and those that have been coded perfectly. A task manager, such as ATK, can be an extremely valuable tool but only when used properly and wisely. Do not just think that "killing all tasks" is going to solve anything. It will destroy your Android experience. If you are going to use a task manager, which I do, just make sure you know what you're doing.

Over and out...

 

[EVO1Android]

I am new to Android and I have read this entire thread. I use ATK to kill off apps such as Sprint TV and Qik, but my question is why do these apps start themselves? If I do not use Sprint TV, when I use ATK, why is it running?

ATK has brought my battery life from about 5 hours to around 12, so until I can find a better solution or "the actual problem" I will continue to use it.

 

[akarol]

I don't get it either. I don't know why these random apps keep popping up. The OS assumes that you'll need to run them eventually apparently, but that's never the case.

Dumb!

 

[SilverZero]

I think the irony of this whole conversation is that everybody is trying to be scientific and objective, but nobody has followed simple scientific methods or posted observed results, experimental or control. If the question is whether ATK improves battery life, somebody needs to run each condition for 3 days or so and then post their results. Data talks.

 

[Seven2k]

So why do apps start automatically?

 

[akarol]

I believe Android is assuming you'll be using those apps and gets them "prepared" for you. Seems counter-intuitive and dumb IMO.

I don't get why Sprint Navigation keeps turning on.