V20 owners: Are you glad you have a Quad DAC?

[thisisjason]

Not according to what I've read from LG and other sources. The DAC is active but it doesn't always use all 4 chips.

Cite your source. I've seen this notion before, but I think it's ultimately a misrepresentation of something LG said, it doesn't really make sense

 

[Mooncatt]

Not according to what I've read from LG and other sources. The DAC is active but it doesn't always use all 4 chips.

This goes into some detail that's easy to understand.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/articles/lg-v20-quad-dac-how-it-works/

Basically it converts the source signal into 4 identical analog outputs that are then added together without adding the noise of each output. This means a higher signal to noise ratio vs a single but higher power DAC. Translation: Better sound quality, which is independent of overall power/volume abilities.

I did read a quote in another article mentioning the ability to enable and disable the individual DAC's. It seems this is possible based on the incoming signal. I.e people aren't clamoring for high fidelity call quality and you're still largely dependant on other degrading variables, so some of the DAC's would be disabled to save battery power without any noticeable loss of quality. Like I said, this is dependent on the input signal, not what's plugged in to the aux port.

 

[Mike Dee]

This goes into some detail that's easy to understand.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/articles/lg-v20-quad-dac-how-it-works/

Basically it converts the source signal into 4 identical analog outputs that are then added together without adding the noise of each output. This means a higher signal to noise ratio vs a single but higher power DAC. Translation: Better sound quality, which is independent of overall power/volume abilities.

I did read a quote in another article mentioning the ability to enable and disable the individual DAC's. It seems this is possible based on the incoming signal. I.e people aren't clamoring for high fidelity call quality and you're still largely dependant on other degrading variables, so some of the DAC's would be disabled to save battery power without any noticeable loss of quality. Like I said, this is dependent on the input signal, not what's plugged in to the aux port.

Yeah I saw that article and I've read most of the others. I was referring more to the statements of the CEO prior to pre-order. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but they seem to keep how it actually works a secret.

 

[Mooncatt]

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but they seem to keep how it actually works a secret.

No conspiracy at all. No company wants to spill the beans on a new development if they can keep from it. I know of an audio company that specially mounted the PCB's in a car amplifier in such a way to deter reverse engineering, because they designed the first ever full range class-D amp. Heck, there's an argument to be made not to patent some things, because doing so requires you to make certain elements public and thus open to reverse engineering.

So yeah, I can't really blame LG or ESS for that.

 

[Mike Dee]

No conspiracy at all. No company wants to spill the beans on a new development if they can keep from it. I know of an audio company that specially mounted the PCB's in a car amplifier in such a way to deter reverse engineering, because they designed the first ever full range class-D amp. Heck, there's an argument to be made not to patent some things, because doing so requires you to make certain elements public and thus open to reverse engineering.

So yeah, I can't really blame LG or ESS for that.

I hear ya..... Sony used to do the same things with resistors and transistors in their CRTs. They used to resistors, transistors and other components odd values so it was harder to reverse engineer and to force repair centers to use only Sony parts.

 

[thisisjason]

I think this may be the statement that caused the confusion:

"The Quad DAC’s low power mode shuts down three of the four DACs when they’re not needed, to increase battery life when playing lower quality audio or using lower quality headsets. – Ken Hong, global communications director for LG"

(Found here)

But it doesn't actually mention the gain modes. It mentions lower quality audio, lower quality headsets and a "low power mode". I think maybe people took "low power mode" to mean the normal gain setting, but I don't see any reason to assume that. I suspect that he might actually mean that setting the Hi-Fi DAC to "Off" in the sound settings actually puts it into a low power mode, bypassing 3 of the sub-DACs while allowing the phone to still utilize it for lower quality audio. That's speculation, since we don't have full details of exactly how the DAC works, but I don't think there's anything in the statement suggesting that the Quad DAC isn't fully active once you do turn on the Hi-Fi mode, regardless of gain setting

 

[Mike Dee]

I think this may be the statement that caused the confusion:



(Found here)

But it doesn't actually mention the gain modes. It mentions lower quality audio, lower quality headsets and a "low power mode". I think maybe people took "low power mode" to mean the normal gain setting, but I don't see any reason to assume that. I suspect that he might actually mean that setting the Hi-Fi DAC to "Off" in the sound settings actually puts it into a low power mode, bypassing 3 of the sub-DACs while allowing the phone to still utilize it for lower quality audio. That's speculation, since we don't have full details of exactly how the DAC works, but I don't think there's anything in the statement suggesting that the Quad DAC isn't fully active once you do turn on the Hi-Fi mode, regardless of gain setting

I was told that setting the HIFI to off does not use the Quad DAC chipset at all.

 

[thisisjason]

I was told that setting the HIFI to off does not use the Quad DAC chipset at all.

Told by who?

 

[Mooncatt]

Got the subs figured out. Silly me forgot to plug the audio cable into the stereo output. Lol. Now for the fun of tuning.

Still very impressed now with the phone. I killed all audio from it while plugged into the stereo and turned the stereo up. Normally at some point I'll start to pick up a little hum from the background noise of the phone. This time, I maxed out the stereo volume and there was no noise. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

 

[ansa82]

If you own a V20, are you happy with the QUAD DAC and getting good use from it?
If you like it, but have ideas for improvements, what are they?

I am happy with it. Question though...when I plug in my headphones it says 75%...I know that's pretty loud already, but it doesn't go higher?

 

[Mike Dee]

I am happy with it. Question though...when I plug in my headphones it says 75%...I know that's pretty loud already, but it doesn't go higher?

Yeah....not sure why its set up that way but I've never seen 100 even at Hi-Impedance Mode. Maybe there's a logic to it. Most songs would be too loud even at 75 except maybe some at low output.

 

[Mike Dee]

I am happy with it. Question though...when I plug in my headphones it says 75%...I know that's pretty loud already, but it doesn't go higher?

Forgot to mention that if I use Poweramp and turn on their internal volume control it has a scale that goes to 100.

 

[ansa82]

Forgot to mention that if I use Poweramp and turn on their internal volume control it has a scale that goes to 100.

Poweramp? That's an app?

 

[Mike Dee]

Poweramp? That's an app?

No....third party music player that plays an music you have stored. It has more functions than the stock LG music player if you have it. There's a trial version in the play store that's good for two weeks.

 

[ansa82]

Ok thanks!

 

[walterkurtz]

hi guys i came from a v10 to v20 and am trying to figure out how to force or trick the phone into high impedence mode. i have audio technica headphones that are low impedence and the phone is not rooted. on the v10 you could unplug the headphones, make a call and connect the headphones while the call was connecting to magically get high impedence. the volume is pretty great and the sound quality amazing even in the 'an external audio device is connected' mode (i'm using an extension cable to get at least somewhat better sound than normal). anyway i mainly bought these headphones for long flights and with the added ambient noise of a plane and am hoping someone has a trick to get this phone into high impedence mode.

thank you!!

 

[flyingkytez]

The V20 has the most powerful and highest quality sound output I've ever heard (laptop & desktop can't beat it). I can get by without it, but the enjoyment experience will go down.

 

[Mike Dee]

hi guys i came from a v10 to v20 and am trying to figure out how to force or trick the phone into high impedence mode. i have audio technica headphones that are low impedence and the phone is not rooted. on the v10 you could unplug the headphones, make a call and connect the headphones while the call was connecting to magically get high impedence. the volume is pretty great and the sound quality amazing even in the 'an external audio device is connected' mode (i'm using an extension cable to get at least somewhat better sound than normal). anyway i mainly bought these headphones for long flights and with the added ambient noise of a plane and am hoping someone has a trick to get this phone into high impedence mode.

thank you!!

Only trick I heard of is to buy an adaptor that adds resistance to the circuit,

 

[SupraLB]

Bought a pair of these Bose noise cancelling earbuds and I'm not sure if the DAC is 100% required for me anymore. These things are phenomenal. Its much different having a completely silent environment to listen to music all the time. Although I certainly want a DAC in any phone and highly desire one, it might not be the all or nothing deal breaker anymore.

Btw, if LG had included these earbuds for free with the LG V20 instead of those overpriced B&O earbuds, they would have sold 10x as many phones!

 

[Mike Dee]

Bought a pair of these Bose noise cancelling earbuds and I'm not sure if the DAC is 100% required for me anymore. These things are phenomenal. Its much different having a completely silent environment to listen to music all the time. Although I certainly want a DAC in any phone and highly desire one, it might not be the all or nothing deal breaker anymore.

Btw, if LG had included these earbuds for free with the LG V20 instead of those overpriced B&O earbuds, they would have sold 10x as many phones!

View attachment 264789

Noise cancelling headphones do not improve sound output. You are hearing an improvement in sound because background noise is being squelched or eliminated. Some Noise Cancellation headphones are too powerful and as a result actually have a detrimental effect on sound. As an example the Bose QC25 and QC35 have one of the best noise cancelling profiles but you can actually hear a difference in the sound profile when NC is active. The DAC is an improvement regardless of what headphones you use.