Virgin Mobile Does NOT Want Us To Root

[JerryScript]

First I want to say that I have been rooted since day two of owning my Optimus V, and I will continue to attempt to root any phone I purchase. I believe you own what you buy, and as such have the right to do what you want with it. I also believe that the carriers have the right to protect their networks. So I struggle with a valid answer to this situation, where do my rights end and VM's begin, and visa-versa.

Virgin Mobile's does not want you to root your phone, period.
Virgin Mobile: Don't Root Our Android Phones | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

[warning, semi-connected thoughts follow, mumbeling and grumbling]
The courts have said you have the right to jailbreak your iphone, but they have also said carriers have the right to protect their networks. HTC has stated they understand the open source nature of the Android OS, and they will stop locking bootloaders, this in response to public outcry over the Thunderbolt's locked bootloader. Now Virgin Mobile has taken a tough stance on the issue. Virgin Mobile has always tried to use a "cool" (substitute hip, stylish, sick, whatever) marketing strategy, so perhaps we can call their stance on rooting out as an un-cool way to treat customers. [/grumbling]

I think we need to get some web-based response going on this issue, and perhaps mob the customer service phone lines.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Neither does Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, Boost, USCC, Bluegrass, AlaskaTel, Cricket, Cinci Bell, or any of the rest. I'm sure carriers outside the US feel the same way.

 

[JerryScript]

I do understand the carrier's concerns, as much as a non-engineer can.

However, I can put any OS I want on my PC and connect to the internet via any internet connection it is compatible with. There is no Microsoft only internet, there is no Apple only internet, and there is no Linux only internet. I have Windows 7 and a couple of flavors of Linux running on my PC, and they both are completely acceptable means of accessing the internet via my cable company's network. I can also do this using carrier's usb or built in 3g modems, over the same network that our phones run on.

With the convergence of data, voice, video, and social services, it seems as if the carriers are on shaky ground.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

I agree with you 100%. I was just commenting on the fact that VM was singled out, when all carriers have the same policies.

It's a battle they will lose, yet they still hold on thinking it's going to matter if they don't like it.

 

[staticmaal]

Yes i agree with you i bought so i can do what ever i want with it. Virgin Mobile is afraid of someone hacking your server like extending their monthly date or something like that.

 

[bdfull3r]

If the carriers wanted to avoid the rooting issue then they should do three things taht should have been implented from the start

1. No bloatware, or at least uninstallable bloatware. things like Virgin Mobile Live has absolutely no use to me, i should have the right to move it when i am already desperate for phone memory.

2. Stay open sourced. That means no blocking apps, like Verizon did with PDAnet. No blocking of or locking features. Verizon, again, blocking the HTC Hub from the Thunderbolt. Also easily be able to switch launchers. Digging around to turn off HTC Sense was a nightmare the first time i attempted it

3. Last and most important. UPDATE THE GOD DAMN FIRMWARE. Shipping phones with Froyo is not only an insult but a BLATANT security risk to the network and the end user. Gingerbread has been out for 6 months now. Some phones had to wait until several months after Gingerbread to even get to Froyo (Samsung Galaxy Line). Its a slap in the face in my opinion

 

[asadullah]

Damn jerryscript said the same thing I was gonna but honestly if there wasn't any bloat and I could customize the notification bar like in cyanogen 6 I would be perfectly happy without root on my phone. I'm cool with froyo on this device (notice I said on this device) but I want gingerbread.
The motorola triumph even if it has a locked bootloader is gonna take months to get a working version of gingerbread

 

[r00t]

There was an interesting point raised on the other thread. A lot of people are returning bricked phones due to improper modding, could this be the reason?

 

[JerryScript]

We have no idea how many people return due to modding, not even VM keeps that kind of stat. The majority of returned android phones are returned due to ignorance (iphone dummies just can't break out of the iphone sandbox), or battery life, this is documented in several articles on the web. I also believe a good portion of OVs get returned due to lack of flash support, which is really an act of ignorance as well.

Rooting itself doesn't cause bricking, only what you do after rooting can brick your phone. IMHO it is the manufacturer's responsibility to make the retailers follow a procedure to determine if the phone deserves to be returned.

 

[zedorda]

The reason for their statement about rooting is because if they support end users in rooting and custom modding then they will be expected by many to also offer tech support for the device outside the preset software box it is sold in. And in most cases its more costly to offer support for a device after sale than to make the device in the first place. IMHO they shouldn't have an opinion either way if the costumer doesn't seek support or return. I do support them refusing return if they deem the phone tampered with.

 

[JerryScript]

The reason for their statement about rooting is because if they support end users in rooting and custom modding then they will be expected by many to also offer tech support for the device outside the preset software box it is sold in. And in most cases its more costly to offer support for a device after sale than to make the device in the first place. IMHO they shouldn't have an opinion either way if the costumer doesn't seek support or return. I do support them refusing return if they deem the phone tampered with.

They already have that covered by voiding your warranty.

It's pretty easy to write a TOS that allows you to make changes to your OS, with the caveat that support will not be offered if you do.

Microsoft allows vendors to create customized installations of Windows, but the vendors then take on the responsibility for support, you only get direct MS support if you install a retail version, or pay for a support package. I use oem versions of MS products, and save a bunch in the process, realizing I am on my own for support. The same could, and IMO should be the case with phone OS's.

 

[jralabate]

here is some tweets i got from VM Twitter

 

[thexxoffspring]

Yes i agree with you i bought so i can do what ever i want with it. Virgin Mobile is afraid of someone hacking your server like extending their monthly date or something like that.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. This is not what they fear. Reason companies are so against rooting is because then people will have access to unlimited data from which they can use to tether. Verizon was big on this.

 

[Retorrent]

Unitl VM gives me the option to remove their crapware and learns to roll out updates faster they can bite me. I'm all for them protecting their network from those who seek to harm it, or for cracking down on the data hogs who are being excessive.

 

[JerryScript]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. This is not what they fear. Reason companies are so against rooting is because then people will have access to unlimited data from which they can use to tether. Verizon was big on this.

Um, not to be as rude as you were, but that's pretty dumb. You can tether the Optimus V without rooting, and it already has unlimited data.

 

[LeslieAnn]

They already have that covered by voiding your warranty.

It's pretty easy to write a TOS that allows you to make changes to your OS, with the caveat that support will not be offered if you do.

Microsoft allows vendors to create customized installations of Windows, but the vendors then take on the responsibility for support, you only get direct MS support if you install a retail version, or pay for a support package. I use oem versions of MS products, and save a bunch in the process, realizing I am on my own for support. The same could, and IMO should be the case with phone OS's.

In a way, that is what we do here.
The devs help you root it and mod it and try to support it.

I do all I can to help Harmonia, Aphrodite and other users, and I know others do as well. If people doubt it, read some of the rom support threads. Is it as good as Virgin or LG? Yes and no. Ask Virgin or LG for personal help when one minor thing is wrong and see what response you get. On the other hand, I also can't send you a new phone. You have to accept that when you decide to mess around with things, you also need to accept that if you do something wrong, it may cost you or take time to fix it. The sad part is that MANY of those rooted and busted phones could be fixed or avoided had people done their research first or even after.

 

[anon(182107)]

Where do I start?

The VM statement was most likely in response to getting so many comments about the locked bootloader on the Moto Triumph. I think that may have already been mentioned in the OP. As for the comments and questions from users to VM about rooting, the users should know better than to bring that to the carrier.

"You don't bring a jailbroken iPhone into an Apple Store, so why would you contact VM about rooting?"

Second, if the Triumph is locked down that much to not have custom kernels or CM Support I am strongly considering not buying it at all.

Also isn't possible that if VM can't stop wireless tethering they might remove unlimited data plans to help put an end to it.

I can understand a no customer support policy for rooted users and that the warranty is void but I can't just sit around and listen to what sounds like VM completely raging about the Android phones on their network being rooted.

Listen VM, Its not your phone. We as users paid for the phone, we own it and it is solely ours. Again it isn't VM's phone it is LG's. Even the OS isn't VM's, its Google's. That's three strikes. Really the only thing VM owns is the network and some of the bloatware content on the stock ROM. For example It's like when you buy a house and you own it, no one can tell you can't paint the walls and change the flooring.

Honestly, If this is the message VM is trying to deliver I will strongly consider just dropping them and switch to a Nexus GSM with T-Mobile. If T-Mobile complains about rooting I might as well switch to a generic basic carrier with a basic generic unlocked phone.

That's my response. [/rant]

 

[LeslieAnn]

Also isn't possible that if VM can't stop wireless tethering they might remove unlimited data plans to help put an end to it.

Could they? Yes.
Should they? No.

Data is data, we pay for it, we should be allowed to use it.


VM really hasn't said much about tethering really, neither has Sprint.
The one company who does make a big deal of it, is AT&T and they make a big deal out of it on your phone and home internet because they simply don't have the bandwidth onto the backbone, or in their towers. They also throttle it to make more money.

Sprint on the other hand, owns a major portion of the backbone, so as long as their towers keep up, data is less an issue. Also, this is Sprints biggest advantage over them.

 

[jmart981]

at least virgin mobile is adamant about manufacturers not skinning the android experience. but in response to their statement they have made, i got two words...Too late!

 

[zedorda]

All unlimited plans in the US fall under the "fair use policy" and are in no way truly unlimited data plans. If ur use goes outside the limits of "fair use" the carrier is within their rights to drop data or limit it. All interested in really knowing what is really meant by "unlimited data" should Google "unlimited data fair use policy". You can use what ever u want as long as u stay under the radar, per say.